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Speculation...put yourself in Sparano's decision making loop

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Alright, this may seem premature "there are two preseaon games to go"

    That is true, however there has been 54 workouts and 46+ practices, if a player was going to catch Sparano's eye, or the positional coaches eye, they will have done so by now.

    Sparano has said his 53 man roster changes every night as his head hits his pillow, the question is...why?

    Let's examine some players to answer that:

    Lex Hilliard, Lexy has fans, but he also has played against 2's and 3's, he has not played FB, and his hands are still questionable, but we have Ronnie with 1 16 game season under his belt, and Ricky W.

    So how would Lexy stay on the roster when his skills mirror Cobb's?

    Look at the Oline situation, our 5 Starters are now set into stone, Carey. Thomas, Grove, Smiley, Long...but what about the backups?

    Berger, Garner, Gardner, Frye, Murphy, Ellis, we clearly need a swing tackle, Garner is a swing tackle, Frye can play G or T, Murph is a lock, Gardner is a great propsect, who is kept, and why keep them? Can Gardner slide unto the practice squad? Is he a good enough LT prospect to be poached off of the practice squad?

    Look at OLB, JP and JT are the starters, but after that things become fuzzy, especially with Roth on the PUP, do we keep Moses as JT's backup? And can he play ST at the level of even Charlie Anderson?

    Erik Walden, Charlie Anderson and Cam Wake are interchangable, to muddy the waters further, each one has played well on Special Teams, Anderson created a Fumble on ST, Walden and Wake are the team leaders in ST tackles in the preseason...do we keep all three?

    And why? Especially when none of the three can also play ILB.

    At DE, Merling was annointed as the "starter" lost the role to Starks, who has been outplayed by Tony McDaniels, McD has played at the highest level, Starks can play NT and Merling is the player with the most upside?

    Do we keep all three? Why?

    Would we remove McD from the rotation because he cannot play NT as well as Starks can?

    Fun stuff, to me, Hilliard should inherit the Wilford TE/HBack role, Walden is on the bubble as his LB play is not very productive, and Frye is the G/T backup, Garner is leaving and Gardner remains Long's main backup who hopefully can play Swing Tackle at a high level.

    What say you? Basically our 25 "starters" have room for only 2 new players, Cb and DE...
     
  2. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    I say we'll just have to wait & see
    won't be long & the decisons will have been made
     
  3. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    "

    yes
     
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  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We already have a punter 23rd....:lol:

    Well this is one of the few times in an entire football season cycle that we can guess at what HC Sparano may do with the roster.

    Make a guess Bro...it won't hurt....:yes:
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Marty...you know very well that the third preseason game features the starters, most decisions that needed to made already have been made.

    Take a shot and see what you think and do spare the "it's too early" claptrap, you know better than that, unless one thinks Hartline is running with the first team offense is a motivational tool with less than 18 days until kick off in ATL?
     
  6. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    1) Hilliard kept as FB & Polite traded or cut. could also use JT as a Long snapper & open up another spot on the roster, possibly carrying both Hilliar & Polite. Hilliard has to show his worth on special teams to cement a position on the final 53.
    2) OL: Gardner to PS, Carey can cover left in a pinch & Frye can cover the right, go with Berger, Frye & Murphy
    3) OLB: (Roth to Pup, traded or cut) JP & JT, Wake, Moses, & Anderson (Walden)
    4) DE: keep the three because of rotation considerations @ NT & DE (McD can play NT)
    5) I say it will probably different then either of us suspect, depending on the next two games & practices. things change.
     
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  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    23rd, for the last time, Jason Taylor is not going to be our long snapper.
     
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  8. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Friend Ashraf:
    I said it was only an option, not that he would be used on Special Teams in that capacity.
    I mention it as a one of the ways of creating an extra spot on the Roster of 53.
    Taylor has played the position before (early 90's) & although he was a backup, he did very well.

    Once again, I agree it probably will never be a serious consideration, but it is an option. You never know what they're thinking, especially in the midst of a rebuilding process.:wave:we are still rebuilding the Franchise

    who knows the logic behind these things
    when you're trying to maximize growth & allow time to develop
    & analyse the talent on your roster,
    a creative move like replacing the Long Snapper
    might present itself as a provisorial opportunity for development

    I try not to second guess the Front office
    or limit any possible options in the rebuilding process

    truth is we may win the SuperBowl in 2009, but probably won't
    however
    I can assure you: We will Contend in 2010!:up:
     
  9. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I see us keeping 5 backs and we are not rebuilding. There is my guess.
     
  10. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I posted this in the club section after the Panthers game... so some of the names are already gone, but I'm feeling pretty confident about the list.

    QB's
    1. Chad Pennington
    2. Chad Henne
    3. Pat White

    RB’S
    4. Ronnie Brown
    5. Ricky Williams
    6. Patrick Cobbs
    7. Lex Hilliard
    Outside looking in: Anthony Kimble

    WR’s
    8. Ted Ginn
    9. Greg Camarillo
    10. Devone Bess
    11. Patrick Turner
    12. Brian Hartline
    Outside looking in: Brandon London, James Robinson, Ernest Wilford, Anthony Armstrong and Chris Williams.

    FB
    13. Lousaka Polite
    Outside looking in: Joe Kowalewski

    TE’s
    14. Anthony Fasano
    15. David Martin
    16. Joey Haynos
    Outside looking in: John Nalbone

    OT’s
    17. Jake Long
    18. Vernon Carey
    19. Andrew Gardner
    Outside looking in: Brandon Frye & Nate Garner.

    OG’s
    20. Justin Smiley
    21. Donald Thomas
    22. Shawn Murphy
    Outside looking in: Mark Lewis, Ikechuku Ndukwe & Andy Alleman

    C’s
    23. Jake Grove
    24. Joe Berger


    K/P/LS
    25. Dan Carpenter
    26. Brandon Fields
    27. John Denny
    Outside looking in: Connor Barth

    DL’s
    28. Jason Ferguson
    29. Paul Soliai
    30. Kendall Langford
    31. Phillip Merling
    32. Randy Starks
    33. Lionel Dotson
    34. Tony McDaniel
    Outside looking in: Joe Cohen, Ryan Baker, Rodrique Wright & Louis Ellis.

    LB’s
    35. Joey Porter
    36. Jason Taylor
    37. Channing Crowder
    38. Cameron Wake
    39. Quentin Moses
    40. Akin Ayodele
    41. Reggie Torbor
    42. Charlie Anderson
    43. Matt Roth
    Outside looking in: Tearrius George, Erik Walden, J.D. Folsom, Orion Martin & William Kershaw.

    CB’s
    44. Will Allen
    45. Vontae Davis
    46. Sean Smith
    47. Nathan Jones
    48. Jason Allen
    Outside looking in: Joey Thomas & Will Billingsley.

    S’s
    49. Yeremiah Bell
    50. Gibril Wilson
    51. Chris Clemons
    52. Tyrone Culver
    Outside looking in: Courtney Bryan

    Notice there are only 52 players... I think we'll go looking for another offensive lineman... although I want to look at the NFLN replay tomorrow and watch the current linemen very closely, didn't get a good look at the group tonight. I also think Joey Thomas could make the squad as that last spot. So I'll pencil him in at 53 for the time being.

    Practice Squad guys...
    1. JD Folsom
    2. John Nalbone
    3. Chris Williams (one that I missed, because I didn't know he was injured)
    4. Nate Garner
    5. Brandon Frye
    6. Ryan Baker
    7. a corner from another team
    8. a quarterback from another team, since we need someone to run the scout teams during practice, and I think both Henne and White are going to be busy.

    Walden, Kershaw and Thomas are fighting for #53 IMO...
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe, instead of having 9 OL, the FO will keep Rodrique Wright to have 8 DL. Or, keep Brandon London because he is a ST Standout and a WR with high potential.

    We have a lot of options for this roster. I'm excited to see what Sparano and the FO are going to do.
     
  12. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    agree w/ the RB Stable carrying five. In the pro-set we are a run first offense & will rely on the WildCat increasingly more in 2009, which is a system that is set up to maximize the running potential of the game.
    however
    I disagree with the notion that we have terminated the rebuilding process of the Franchise. Do not be deceived by early successes & an AFCE Championship. It is not over. We will require this year to develop & solidify our gains. Next year will be used to acquire special pieces to complete the team offensively, defensively & on special teams that will allow us to get to & win a SuperBowl. Everything takes time. Three years is the minimal time to rebuild a Franchise from the bottom up.
    We Wiill Contend in 2010! :yes:
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To be honest, I think Rod Wright is trade bait, and Ryan Baker has a shot to be on the PS:

    Trades, trades, come our way:

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/

    'Nando speculates we will make a move for a Kick Returner, I'd love to see Roscoe Parrish in miami, but maybe a cast off or Stephon Logan from Pitt, ex CFLer is picked up.
     
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  14. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    Padre31 I don't see how Lex and Cobb's are anything alike at all other then Lex can catch a football.

    Cobb's is more of a 3rd down back that you want to put in space and Lex is a 240 pound guy that you'd run up the between the the Ot's and can make his own space by running people over.

    I think at this point Lex has forced us to trade him because he does have some value but he can't beat out Cobb's and i don't see him as being one of our top 3 ST players.

    I'd like to keep him but this team has to many OLB, DL, and WR they like to keep over 4th RB that would never play on Sundays.

    If any team call us and offers a 5th round pick he's gone IMHO but we may have to take less because most teams know we won't keep him.
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You keep Hilliard b/c as Parcells said we're in the talent acquisition business. And I wouldn't be to sure that he won't play on Sundays.

    Nice article about Mr. Hilliard by our guy Ethan:

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/m...5953351.column

    Quote:
    According to two sources, Hilliard is not only likely to stick, but is also likely to be active on many Sundays, with offensive coordinator Dan Henning already working on ways to use him. Hilliard's progress gives the Dolphins flexibility should some team show interest in Ricky Williams (unlikely for now due to the abundance of unemployed running backs), and maybe even in the Ronnie Brown contract negotiations down the road.
     
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  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Bingo! I was going to say the same thing. The rest of your post I mostly do not agree with. Keeping Lex is not difficult at all. Teams carry 5 OBs all the time. He can do more for the team than a 6th WR, and he may well be one of our top 3 STers on kick coverage units. He is sure around the ball a lot when he is out there.
    Keep 8 OL, since never more than 8, sometimes just 7, are active on game day. Keep 5 Wrs which is the most common number for teams to carry and keeping 5 offensive backs is easy. You don't even have to worry about the numbers on defense, which will probably be 8 DL, 9 LB, and 9 DB, IMO. Combined with 24 offensive players, 3 QB, 5 OB, 3 TE, 5 WR, 8 OL, that makes 50 between offense and defense and leave 3 spots for PK, P, and LS.
     
  17. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    When i read that Quote all i think is Bill's trying to get a higher draft pick for him.

    I'm all for keeping good players but i'm not for cutting one of our best ST players just so we can keep a 4th RB.

    And i sure don't want Lex taking carries away from Brown or Ricky.
     
  18. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    MAKES SENSE TO ME :yes:
     
  19. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I would. Wright is a starting quality DE in this league who is just stuck on a deep unit. But, you don't give away good DL and I would want a 3rd to let Wright go. If a couple of starting ends get banged up all the sudden Wright is in the rotation. Also, remember, we kept 6 DEs and 8 DL total last year. McDaniel, without an s, replaces Holliday in the DL contingent, and other than that I see no reason to change anything.
    No reason to keep 9 OL when the 8th AND 9th OL basically never play. Remember how many games the 8th and 9th OL last year, Murphy and Garner, played? You don't because they didn't.
     
  20. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

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    It will be silly to get rid of Cobbs.
    Ricky will be gone in 2 years max.
    We are not sure what is going to happen with Ronnie, and while I love Cobbs, I dont see him as a every down back, while Lex is a very solid between the tackles runner. No way we are getting rid of him.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    In the spirit of Paul13's roster post and Padre's thread, here is my speculation on the 53 man roster, knowing what we know today.

    QB's
    1. Chad Pennington
    2. Chad Henne
    3. Pat White

    RB’S
    4. Ronnie Brown
    5. Ricky Williams
    6. Patrick Cobbs
    7. Lex Hilliard

    WR’s
    8. Ted Ginn
    9. Greg Camarillo
    10. Davone Bess
    11. Patrick Turner
    12. Brian Hartline

    FB
    13. Lousaka Polite

    TE’s
    14. Anthony Fasano
    15. David Martin
    16. John Nalbone

    OT’s
    17. Jake Long
    18. Vernon Carey
    19. Andrew Gardner

    OG’s
    20. Justin Smiley
    21. Donald Thomas
    22. Shawn Murphy

    C’s
    23. Jake Grove
    24. Joe Berger

    K/P/LS
    25. Dan Carpenter
    26. Brandon Fields
    27. John Denny

    DL’s
    28. Jason Ferguson
    29. Paul Soliai
    30. Kendall Langford
    31. Phillip Merling
    32. Randy Starks
    33. Lionel Dotson
    34. Tony McDaniel
    35. Rodrique Wright

    LB’s
    36. Joey Porter
    37. Jason Taylor
    38. Channing Crowder
    39. Cameron Wake
    40. Quentin Moses
    41. Akin Ayodele
    42. Reggie Torbor
    43. Charlie Anderson
    44. William Kershaw

    CB’s
    45. Will Allen
    46. Vontae Davis
    47. Sean Smith
    48. Nathan Jones
    49. Jason Allen

    S’s
    50. Yeremiah Bell
    51. Gibril Wilson
    52. Chris Clemons
    53. Tyrone Culver

    Practice Squad guys...
    1. JD Folsom
    2. Nate Garner
    3. Mark Lewis
    4. Ryan Baker
    5. Louis Ellis
    The rest of the PS, your guess as good as mine
     
  22. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think it's much more likely that they just have a higher opinion of Hilliard than you do.
     
  23. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    thats my team right there :up: kershaw probably the guy who will get cut if someone better becomes available
     
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  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Did I leave the 2nd e out of Denney? It's Paul's fault. I just copied and pasted his roster and then tweaked it a little. :D
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  25. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A 3rd round pick for Wright? I like him, too, but a 3rd is a too high.
     
  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I think all 6 of our top DEs are good enough we could start any two of them, be competitive on defense and win. For a starting quality DE who can play the 3-4 and also play inside in the 4-3, if I were calling the shots I'd want a 3rd minimum. In other words I'd not be keen on trading Wright. He was considered good enough to keep all last year. Nothing has changed except we now have McDaniel, no s, and don't have Holliday. IMO we keep 6 DEs again.

    BTW, what are you doing up this late young man? School is starting next week, you better get used to going to bed early. :wink2:
     
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  27. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    The post funk era
    This is what i'd do if i was Tony.

    Special Teams Players
    1.Erik Walden
    2.Brandon London
    3.Charlie Anderson

    Punter
    1.Brandon Fields

    Kicker
    1.Dan Carpenter

    LS
    1.John Denny

    DT
    1.Jason Ferguson
    2.Paul Soliai
    3.Lionel Dotson

    LDE
    1.Kendall Langford
    2.Tony McDaniel

    RDE
    1.Randy Starks
    2.Phillip Merling

    LOLB
    1.Jason Taylor
    2.Matt Roth
    3.Quentin Moses

    ROLB
    1.Joey Porter
    2.Cameron Wake

    LILB
    1.Channing Crowder

    RILB
    1.Akin Ayodele

    Backup ILB
    1.Reggie Torbor

    LCB
    1.Will Allen
    2.Vontae Davis

    RCB
    1.Sean Smith
    2.Jason Allen
    3.Nathan Jones

    FS
    1.Gibril Wilson
    2.Tyrone Culver

    SS
    1.Yeremiah Bell
    2.Chris Clemons

    QB
    1.Chad Pennington
    2.Chad Henne
    3.Pat White

    RB
    1. Ronnie Brown
    2. Ricky Williams
    3. Patrick Cobbs

    WR
    1.Greg Camarillo
    2.Ted Ginn
    3.Devone Bess
    4.Brian Hartline
    5.Patrick Turner

    FB
    1.Lousaka Polite

    TE
    1.Anthony Fasano
    2.David Martin
    3.Joey Haynos

    LT
    1.Jake Long
    2.Andrew Gardner

    RT
    1.Vernon Carey

    LG
    1.Justin Smiley

    RG
    1.Donald Thomas
    2.Shawn Murphy

    C
    1.Jake Grove
    2.Joe Berger
     
  28. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    That very well could be true, but for the most part they seem to think alot like me , and i'm right alot more then i'm wrong when taking about football.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Raffie's a night owl.
     
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  30. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly how I see it right now except I think Walden sticks before Kershaw.
     
  31. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I live for danger.
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    We'll see, and you'll find that most of the people in the club and many on this site in general know a lot about football and are right more often than not.
     
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  33. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    very close to what I have
    the difference is minimal:
    1) Nalbone to practice squad in place of Lewis. J. Haynos is third TE
    2) Eric Walden will stick @ ILB
     
  34. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    You have to keep him with the possibility of injuries plus
    not knowing if Ronnie will be resigned or if this is Rickys
    last season.It wouldn't be to nice of a situation going into next season with only Cobbs at running back.

    No doubt in my mind that Lex will be on this team
     
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  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Walden is a OLB. Kershaw has shown he is a decent backup ILB, and after we got him last yr he was pretty solid on STs too. Walden wasn't a one man show.
    It is tight between the two, but IMO I'd just rather have one more ILB than one more OLB. Kershaw is far more likely to play some actual defense than Walden and still adds a solid ST dimension.
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I know there was speculation (on the board) that Walden would be tried at ILB but I haven't heard of him being tried there in camp and I haven't noticed him at ILB during the games.
     
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  37. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    The post funk era

    What do you have to see, you can go back and read my old posts from here or the other site.

    Two years ago i said we'll take a LT and a QB with our 1st 3 picks.....and we did.

    Then this year i nailed are needs as well http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=22954&page=2 They filled every need i thought they would other the OG, and didn't go after a OLB or DT high in the draft like most here thought they would.

    This site has many smart football minds here, i mean i've been here from day one.So i don't really understand why your talking like i'm new or don't know that.

    I watch and study every game 6 to 8 times so i'm very good at picking the weak sisters on our team.I'm not one of them guys that downs a 12 pack then comes on here and talks sideways.

    Anyways back to Lex, he has 2 fumbles and he has only touched the ball around 30 times.That's not the kind of guy Tony is going to cut one of his best ST's players for.

    Tony likes guys who are consistent, that's why he had Bess last year as our PR and not Ginn, and so far Lex has been anything but consistent.
     
  38. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    O no doubt.You'd want a guy that knows all your plays and all to help if Ronnie or Rickey go's down.

    Like i said Lex has put the ball on the ground two times in only 30 touches, so we may be able to put him on the PS now, but then again we may be also able to find a RB off of some other teams PS that hangs onto the ball better.

    Ether way, it's not like i hate the guy , i just don't fall for the flavor of the week like others do, and it looks like his week just ended.
     
  39. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Lexy did not look so sexy last night, at this point I see him on the PS because after that performance we could likely hide him there.
     
  40. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You make it sound like you're smarter than everybody else. The things you just mentioned were things that many others including myself predicted or at least mentioned as possibilities. Many here have considerable football experience and knowledge so saying that we should just take your word for it b/c you're so much more in tune with this coaching staff than anybody else smacks of undeserved arrogance.

    And I said we'll see in regards to whether Hilliard makes the team or not. IMO it comes down to London or Hilliard and going into last night I felt that Hilliard had the advantage. I think right now it's a toss up.
     

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