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Best Defense in the AFCE?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PS17, Jun 21, 2009.

Best AFCE Defense?

  1. New England

    5 vote(s)
    5.7%
  2. New York

    9 vote(s)
    10.3%
  3. Miami

    72 vote(s)
    82.8%
  4. Buffalo

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%
  1. PS17

    PS17 NYJ 2010!!!

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    That's the point. MANGINI is gone. He completely misused the whole defense, never blitzing, screwing around with the safeties, etc. WE HAVE ALL THE PERSONNEL, especially with upgrading our LB corps & secondary. Now, we just have a guy who can use it, Rex Ryan, and Mike Pettine. Proven to be much better defensive minded coaches than Eric.

    That's all I'm saying. You're talent wasn't misused, you guys were just inexperienced on some levels. We have the better talent, and it was misused. You can be sure that it won't be this year.
     
    124 likes this.
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, to me, the Jets weakness on "D" is they have expensive players, but not Big Time players, for example Pace and Thomas are expensive, but they are not the guys to make the sack in the fourth Qtr when the other team is driving on them.

    The De's are pedestrian (so are Miami's. but our guys are younger and have upside) and there is no one behind Kris Jenkins.

    Gholston is a wildcard for the Jets, same as Wake and JT is for us, "but" Wake and JT have proven they can produce on the pro level, Gholston has yet to step up.
     
  3. 124

    124 Banned

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    Calvin Pace IS a player who can get the big sack for you when the game is on the line and Rex Ryan's defense will show that to you and the rest of the NFL shortly. He has all the talent in the world, but when you're playing in Arizona (until this past season) and under Eric Mangini, you don't exactly get many chances to show what you're made of when you're a 34 OLB.
     
  4. 124

    124 Banned

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    Incorrect.

    We have some issues, such as at Inside Linebacker, as does Miami, but we have some very solid depth in the Secondary and Outside Linebacker.
     
  5. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    The only thing that rexy has proved is how to eat cheeseburgers.
     
  6. PS17

    PS17 NYJ 2010!!!

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    ...He also proved that he can lead a Defense to being Top-6 in the league for 6 straight years. Nice try, though.
     
  7. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Ray's D, Marvin Lewis's D.
    Hell, Barry Switzer won a SB, with Jimmy Johnson's team in Dallas. Anyboby can win with talent.
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Disagree, for 4/5ths of the season last year, JP did a LT impression.

    He did everything from force fumbles to score safeties to record multiple sacks per game, JP literally won 2 games for us last season (Pats 3 sacks, Bills safety, 2 FF) and he had 14.5 or his 17.5 sacks when we were behind in a game.

    C Pace...not so much, "the" WOLB must be a playmaker, Pace really isn't one.
     
  9. 124

    124 Banned

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    Pace is a playmaker, he just wasn't in the scheme. If you had Pace in Miami last season in Porter's place, I guarentee you that he would've done the same exact things as Joey did. Its all about the system. If you arn't put in the position to succeed and show your talents to the max, you are not going to produce to your best capabilities, unless you're a Quarterback and you can tell the HC to go jump off a cliff.
     
    PS17 likes this.
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Based on...what exactly?
     
    late again likes this.
  11. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    First of all you are assuming our defense will not improve, or improve at least enough to remain better then your defense , but you are assuming your defense will improve enough to overtake our defense, which brings me to my next point.
    Second point is, which is what I am hinting at, is you are kind of saying despite our past performance last year and despite your past performance things will be completely different, and the jets will have the better defense this year. So my question is granted mangini made some mistakes I'm sure, how can you be confident enough to know, or think, that what you saw last year isn't any indicator of how good you actually are? Does that make sense?
     
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  12. 124

    124 Banned

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    What do you based on what? Calvin Pace is an extreme talent. So is Joey Porter. How did Porter do in 2007 in that system as opposed to the system in 2008 that fit his strengths?

    See where I'm getting at here.

    Hopefully you are.

    The players need to be put in a position to succeed. You can't line Pace up at Cornerback and say well he didnt have 13 Interceptions, so he sucks.
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No, I'm not with you on this one, C Pace has never been a game changing player on any defense he has ever been a member of, it appears to me that one is engaging in wishful thinking.
     
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  14. 124

    124 Banned

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    He is not a 43 Defensive End, that was proven in Arizona. When they finally switched to a 34 in Arizona he began to show his potential, and when the Jets were attacking teams in the first half of last season, he showed it again with 7 sacks in the first 8 games. Then the Jets started to lay back and his and everyone elses numbers began to fall.

    In an aggressive all the time scheme like Ryan's, Pace will flourish. He has proven he can be a force in the 34. He isn't a good 43 player, nor would Joey Porter be. For the first half of Pace's career he was a round peg being shoved into a square hole.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    7 sacks in 8 games is a good number (think about it though, 30 plus passes a game though) however Pace just never has shown he can take over a game, for a scheme to highlight a player, the player should have shown they can get it done even when the scheme doesn't focus on them.

    Put it this way, Suggs was a pass rusher in College, he showed he could take over games, Pace never has shown he can do that at whatever level.

    Or

    JT as 4-3 DE...dominate player...JT as OLB..dominate player, Pace..not so much..
     
  16. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    On Paper I have to say the Jests...but we will see...
     
  17. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    Disagree. First of all, in Wilson and Bell we have two of the leading tacklers at safety. Secondly we don't have to rely on 2 rookies to contribute right away. As long as Eric Green does what he was brought in to do we will have experience starting at bot CB spots. However we may end up with one or the other rookie playing in the nickle D, but that's not a given at this point.
     
  18. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    the Triad of Terror will make Sanchez wish he were still in College
    & bring to an early end Tom Brady's season in 2009:yes:
     
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  19. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    First of all your example for comparison is so off the wall it's silly. We're talking about someone who's skill set is suited as a pass rusher. Sure two different positions, but we are still talking about many of the same responsibilities.
    Pace's last 2 years in AZ he lined up at LB. He recorded 1. sck and then 6.5 scks. Last year he recorded 7. scks. So now it's not so unrealistic to think that he's reached his ceiling of potential.
    On the other hand using your own logic should we expect Roth to break out this next year?
     
  20. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    when the rubber meets the road
    the Miami Defense will be have their way w/ the AFCE
    no need to run off @ the mouth in jetesque fashion
    the road to the SuperBowl comes through Miami
    & it will be one brutal stretch of road to negotiate
     
  21. PS17

    PS17 NYJ 2010!!!

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    Good one.
     
  22. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    We better hope that one of the rookies steps up, Green isn't starting material IMO.
     
  23. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    I think Green will be second banana to Smith by game four
     
  24. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    Honestly what I see is you going off of speculation, assumption and hope. This is what you're basing your entire stance on.
    You state in no uncertain terms Pace is an extreme talent. But so far he has done little to prove you right. So again, all you have is speculation.
    Here's something to consider:
    Pace managed only 2 4th qtr sacks.
    He only managed 1 sack inside the Jets own 20.
    http://www.nfl.com/players/calvinpace/situationalstats?id=PAC125680
    If you want to throw out everything in the past; then to be fair you need to state Pace is a question mark and leave it at that.
    In fact if we are going by your logic should we then agree that Eric Green is an extreme talent? After all he came from the Cards as well. We should feel safe in saying he wasn't used correctly either.
     
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  25. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    I don't see the Dolphins having any glaring weakness on Defense this year. That puts us in the top 10 alone... Give us a few more turnovers and you're talking top 5! May start out giving up some yards but by midseason the guys will be gelling and laying the wood!
     
  26. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Pace's highest sack total ever aside from last year came in his walk year. So apparently the scheme did alright enough to allow him to register his best season in terms of sacks last year. I don't think you can accurately say the scheme held him back when he had his best sack season ever.

    Pace is what he is, a second level pass rusher who is best served as "the other" rusher rather than the #1 IMO. He did have some help on the other side, so it wasn't as though there was no one there to take pressure off of him.
     
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  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Miami, simply because they proved it last season. Top-5 in the NFL in red zone defense. Thats the first stat I look at when comparing defenses.

    Not to mention the coaching staff on Miami's defensive side is among the best in the league.

    Factor in the development of Merling and Langford, and we should be even better.
     
  28. calphin

    calphin deadly at 250 yards!!

    These polls are really worthless. Its Homerism at its best. People are picking the Jets over the rest of the division based on what? As I recall, we ended the Jets season last year, and I'll take those results every year. Whats on paper doesn't mean squat!! Lets not annoint Rex Ryan the second coming of Vince Lombardi just yet. He has yet to coach a single game, and alot of good coordinators have been lousy head coaches!
     
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  29. FinsPensFan

    FinsPensFan Professional Slacker

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    8 people picked the Jests?? We all know who the lone vote for the Bills was.
     
  30. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    No kidding. After all, Dave Wannstadt was a great DC with Dallas. But not a good HC at all. And an even worse talent evaluator.
     
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