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With Home Invasions more on the rise....

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Fin Fan In Cali, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    Thanks for all the responses. They are very much appreciated.
     
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  2. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    all gun owners should get safety rounds. they disperse into the walls/sheetrock, but they're also way more devastating as they also disperse(explode) in the same fashion in flesh. swat loads/safety rounds, i think there are a few different names for them. Magsafe is one maker i believe. but yeah, if you fire and miss, you can rest a little easier with these.

    i like all weapons, knives. im a bit of a collector. also into the arts. and there's 2 rules of thumb for me, 1) dont bring a knife to a gun fight. 2)dont pull a gun unless you're willing to use it.
    some of the arts and weapons training is misguided as everything works in the dojo, and every dojo is the real deal best on earth. but you cant mimic true intent to cause bodily harm through 50,60, even 80% effort sparring and kata and other madam butterfly techniques. theres no true way to train for that...except for those who actually get in the ring.

    everybody needs a plan, a contingency plan and hope for the best.
     
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  3. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    gangs like to send off their members to the army now, so when they come back they can train the rest of the gang in tactics.
     
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  4. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    Brother when I was in the Marine Corps that was happening more and more.
     
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  5. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    IDK, that's a tough one. Some kids are smart enough to learn the lesson and others are curious enough to shoot another watermelon when you aren't looking. I think it's better to have the gun locked up next to the bed, it's there if you need it and out of the reach of little hands.

    Wow, that's rough.

    In that case I would suggest bars on the windows and a moat around the house, but that might be a little much. :pointlol: Then again, maybe bars on the windows isn't such a bad idea. Years ago (20+) my great aunt was in her 70's when a guy tried to climb through her bedroom window during the night, she ended up running him off after beating him with her cane. After that she installed bars on the windows and didn't have any other issues.
     
  6. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    I'm a fan of the 12 guage my self. Saiga makes a nasty mag fed 12 gauge shot gun that will be my next purchase just for this reason. I have a few rifles, and a pistol but I want something that's quick and mean. Just point and shoot. I don't care if you're ex-millitary, if you run into a room with someone waiting with a shotgun you're in a very touch spot.

    shotguns are great home defense weapons. They're loud, have devastating spread (so you don't have to be accurate), and swing like a club when need be. Don't get me wrong, i love my 220, but it's touch to be a shotgun in close quarters.
     
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  7. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Girls are a little easier to control around dangerous items than teenage boys. My father's guns were under lock and key too. Underestimating the sneakiness of teenage boys happens way too often.
     
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  8. first&goal

    first&goal Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I agree with you that the shotgun is probably the best home defense, but is also important beside the proper training, the size of it, in the house you are operating in tight quarters therefore you need a 30" max length otherwise you are taking the chance of having someone to grab it.
     
  9. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    30"? That is actually very very long. Heck, my Remington Wingmaster is only 28"

    My Ithaca Bear-Stopper is only 18" :yes:

    Truth is, next gun on my list is also an Ithaca Shotgun...the Model 37

    http://www.ithacagun.com/defense37s.html

    Looking at the 8 shot model (7+1 actually) ...which has a 20" barrel, and still shoots magnums (3" shells :wink2:)
     
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  10. first&goal

    first&goal Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    The 30" is the total length of the shotgun.
    I do have a Mossberg 500 12 gauge 7+1 pistol grip and I use 2.75 low recoil.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s-jFMRPMaU
     
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  11. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    If this is organized gangs then your solutions are:

    1. Move the blankity blank blank out of that place as fast as you can
    2. If 1 is not feasible, organize the neighborhood and prepare for war. Don't stand alone. Get a neighborhood watch program up and running.
     
  12. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Of course you're going to be buying the drum for it, right? That's much more intimidating than a mag, plus it looks really really really cool. :wink2:
     
  13. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with your first rule b/c it seems to presume that a gun is always a more effective weapon than a knife. I believe there are situations when a gun is more effective and there a situations when a knife is more effective. In a typical you hear a noise in the middle of the night scenario I don't believe the gun is more effective.

    I whole heartedly agree with your second rule but apply it any deadly weapon.

    I think the vast majority of those who say they practice martial arts will not be prepared for a true life and death situation. And that includes those that enter the ring. It takes a certain mindset and training to react in that situation. But it's not impossible to train for that. In fact, just about every military organization does just that. There will always be some that still fail to react properly, but most will benefit from their training if they are training for combat and not exhibitions. That's why most soldiers don't throw down their guns and run away when they first experience war. Some martial arts focus on combat style training more similar to the military.
     
  14. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    This wouldn't work particularly well in a situation where I have children sleeping in a different room across the hall. This forces me to be aggressive with any potential home intruder. I have a medium sized dog in my house just for the purpose of ensuring nobody gets the drop on me. She wouldn't only bark either. She's big enough to bite. If this isn't enough of a deterrent, I have a 12 gauge shotgun with a 30 inch barrel [a very large shotgun] in my closet. When I come out of the room I'm at the ready and the weapon can hold six rounds. I know my house a lot better than they do. The dog will instantly give away their location, I like my odds in this situation.
     
  15. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    There's no situation outside of actual being taken down and wrestling around with someone where a knife is more effective than my shotgun. If the perp tries to rush me the weapon is large and heavy and the butt of it makes a great blunt object. You can't discount the intimidation factor of hearing a round chambered in a pump action shotgun. If someone hears that coming out of my bedroom I doubt they stick around to see what's next.
     
  16. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Alarm system, (that really doesn't get used unless I'm not home), 150lb rottweiler, and 200lb german.

    We always keep one light on and I'm usually up pretty late 1-3AM.

    Anyone checking out the house should pretty easily notice that it wouldn't be an ideal target.
     
  17. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Of course! I'm looking into the reliability of the different sizes. Don't need it jamming up :)

    Half the battle is providing lead on impact :)
     
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  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No it doesnt change things. Its a reality. Over 70% of underage high schoolers have had a drink before 18. There was a pretty large group of HS seniors/juniors I drank with when I was 16/17 years old. And you know when youre that age the teenager will at some point do something so dumb its surprising but not really unexpected. The other problem with guns is often times when they are in the house they are meant to be inaccessible to everyone else besides the owner. So what happens when you have to have access to it and your gun is locked in a safe or is in a hallway closest? There's a good chance you wont get to it in time. Tape a knife to the under-carriage of your bed and learn how to use it. If its a sharp switch-blade all the better. Tape a cell phone next to it. All cell phones since I believe 2002 or so are e-911 capable and can dial 911 even when not connected to a plan. Have one in every occupied bedroom. Alertness is a great defense.

    My disclaimer is im not a fan of guns to begin with. As a matter of fact I hate them. I am reasonably well trained in brazilian jujitsu and Ive had a knife held too me twice and nearly ate the other guys face both times. If someone wants to walk in to my house uninvited, be my guest...just as long as they dont expect to walk out :lol:

    Maybe when I get older my views will change and Ill get a good knife or something but for now, I'll be my usual confrontational self when threatened and grab hold of anything and anything can be a weapon. The bigger problem for me is that I sleep like a log and not much wakes me...I mean I slept through fire drills twice in college (while sober) and another 3-4 times while intoxicated and I just never heard a thing. :huh1:
     
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  19. 124

    124 Banned

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    If the person walking in has a gun, I don't care what kind of martial arts bull**** that you know. It isn't going to matter. A gun is way more powerful than a kick to the face.

    Now if he/she enters without a gun, if you're trained in that style of fighting, you clearly have the advantage.

    Better hope you don't come across someone with a loaded weapon or you will lose that battle.

    To answer the original question asked by John:

    Alarm System and usually there is at least one of the 3 of us home. I'd like to see someone who doesn't have a gun try to take me or my father down. It isn't happening. It isn't a cocky attitude, its just facts are facts. If you're going to take me down, you best be very, very strong. Double that for my old man. Bring a gun or you will leave in a stretcher, guarenteed. The security system is more of a back-up plan, half the time we forget to turn it on.
     
  20. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Any close quarters that could put you in a situation where you may not be pointed at your attacker would make the knife more effective. Stepping from room to room, turning around in a hallway all could present problems. And of course there's the issue of leaving a loaded shotgun by your bed or having to remove trigger guards, get it out of a gun safe, etc.

    There is no weapon that is superior in all situations.
     
  21. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Not when it misses and even the most highly trained people miss most of the time in high stress, close quarters situations. Consistently, that miss rate is 70% to 80%. How powerful were those misses?
     
  22. 124

    124 Banned

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    If bullets are flying at someone, how often is that person going to continue to run towards the gun? Maybe 1 out of 1,000? And don't say you'd do it because you probably were never in a situation where you did do it. Eventually one will hit unless the shooter is an absolute moron.
     
  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It actually happens a lot. Talk to police officers. When somebody charges they usually continue their charge even when hit much less when they've heard a shot. So you're 1 out of 1000 figure is way off. Many of these incidents involve drugs or otherwise unstable people. Even adrenaline can stop you from realizing you've been injured. I've never been shot but I've been injured and not realized it until much later.
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Anyone use a bayonet?
     
  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Lol I actually have an authentic WW2 bayonet somewhere back in my moms house. I would think a standard combat type knife that you could get at a surplus store would be better though.

    Anyway, all this gun stuff aside ... if there is an organized group doing this (or ANYONE), your best bet is to try and keep them OUT of the house. Guns, knives etc are a last ditch defense.
    If you can keep your house from being a target in the first place, then youve won the battle without firing a shot. I would recommend heavy steel bars over any window with access, and over any door window if you have them. All doors should be solid frame wood or metal with heavy sturdy locks or a bar that will not be easily kicked in or shot out. Keep the outside clear of hiding spots and lit or on motion sensors at night.
     
  26. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Shotguns are superior in close quarter situations which is why the military uses them during raids in places like Iraq. Someone in the squad will pretty much always have a shotgun.
     
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  27. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    So you pull your shotgun out of your closet whenever you hear a noise in the middle of the night?

    In my home I've never had anybody break-in. In 11 years we've had a bird hit the window, a neighbor on the porch debating whether to knock on the door, we've had my son wake up from a nightmare and assorted other non-events. The only weapon I had with me 100% of the time was my body. The only other weapon I had on me most of the time was my flashlight. IMO the most effective weapon is the one I have with me. Maybe you're different and always carry a shotgun, but I know that the vast majority of the time it will be nothing and I don't walk around as if I'm on a raid. And BTW when military personnel are on raids they all carry a knife.
     
  28. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Yupper. My nephew is a police officer and they use a normal handgun for regular duty, but when they go on raids they always opt for a shotgun because of its effectiveness in tight spaces.
     
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  29. calphin

    calphin deadly at 250 yards!!


    Really? sounds as if daddy didn't need to own guns.
     
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  30. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    You are talking about police officers in the line of duty IMHO this is way different than home invasion.
     
  31. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    I can see your point and certainly the younger they are the more aggressive you may have to become both in personal actions and the way you look at security.

    One thing I've failed to mention is being pro-active as to your outside security in these cases. Motion detecting lights and battery powered lighting that will light you up if/when the power is cut. (As they seem to be using this MO) Anything that will throw off their timing and or scare them off plus add to your reaction time is worth the effort.
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    The factors that cause people to charge an officer (drugs, adrenaline, etc.) exist in most home invasion situations. If the person decides to charge you most likely he will continue to do so even if you get a missed shot off or two.
     
  33. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    I have a dog in the house. Her barking would alert me to any intruder. If an intruder can slip past the dog without being detected he's not going to wake me up for sure. So I count on the dog for a lot.

    BTW I spent eight years in the military. Are you trying to tell me the military doesn't use shotguns for raids? We all carried knives everywhere. I don't know what your point is.
     
  34. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I know that shotguns are used in raids. The question you didn't answer is do you go to your closet and take your shotgun out every time the dog barks or you are otherwise awakened. Most people don't. I know I don't grab anything more than the flashlight 99% of the time that my dogs bark or I hear a noise. The reason is that 99.9% it's nothing you'll need a shotgun for. And if you don't have it that one time it's useless back in your closet.

    That's the difference between a raid and what most people do. In the military you know your going on a raid so you bring your shotgun and your knife. In most people's lives all you know is the dog is barking or you heard a noise. Most of the time its nothing so most of the time people don't bring a loaded weapon. And if you do you're statistically far more likely to shoot an innocent than an intruder. So the most effective weapon is one that you're likely to have with you that one time and is safe enough to keep out and accessible and safe enough not do permanent damage to your family members.

    So if you want me to say that I would want to carry a shotgun if I were conducting a raid, you got it, I agree. But I wouldn't want to carry a shotgun when I'm in my home and I hear a noise.
     
  35. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I have a three tier defense system:

    if you break in...I have a an alarm system.

    you get past that...

    I have a 8 pound Yorkie.

    you get past him...

    you have me with one of these:

    [​IMG]
     
  36. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    screaming "say allo, to my li-il friend!"
     
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  37. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    As I said early on you have your way of looking at this and I have mine. Good luck with your knife, I think you'll need it but thats JMO.:wink2:

    I use Teddy as my model.:up:
     
  38. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    Very common now.

    Neighborhood watch program, seriously? Doesn't that usually consist of people seeing someone suspicious and then calling the cops? I personally think neighborhood watch is a bit of a joke.
     
  39. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. And I think my way looking at this is based on quite a bit of logic and knowledge. I do post-conviction criminal work so I see what kinds of crimes happen in my community. I also talk to police officers and investigators quite a bit. And to the best of my knowledge the type of home invasion where you you sit and "hold the high ground" has never happened in my town. I think the odds of me being in that situation are somewhat akin to me winning the lottery - twice.

    The home invasions that do happen are where somebody forces their way in as you're getting home or pretends to be somebody needing help when you answer the door. The best way to avoid those is just by being vigilant as you get home and being careful who you open the door to. Having a gun in your bedroom closet is close to useless in those much more likely situations.

    As for the gun/knife thing, I don't carry either. I use a flashlight in my home most of the time when investigating a suspicious noise. This type of robber is less likely to look for a confrontation and the light (or the dog's barking) is likely to scare them off. It also has defense-grade luminosity so anybody who looks at the light is blinded for at least 30 seconds and probably several minutes. Additionally, it hurts. Your pain centers in your brain are remarkably close to your eyes and it causes an instantaneous reaction. That's the reason bouncers in the clubs in Vegas use them. It takes the fight out of people when they are shielding their eyes and in pain yet it does no permanent damage. And I've seen them used to break up fights. It's incredibly effective as the subjects are very easy to control and escort out.

    Further, on the gun/knife thing, I speak with many ROP (repeat offender program) detectives. These guys deal with the worst criminals. Many of them have actually faced a charging attacker. And I also speak and train with many people who train for one on one or multiple attacker combat situations. These are people who spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about how to protect themselves and their families. When I've asked (and I have) what the most feared kind of attacker is, the overwhelming majority say a guy in close quarters with a knife. What's interesting is that when untrained people are in the conversation they are always shocked by that. They assume it would be a guy with a gun. I don't find that assumption to be valid.

    So while no opinion is perfect, I have confidence that mine is based on sound logic and real world considerations. Good luck, with yours. :up:
     
  40. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Flashlight/Knife Combo
    [​IMG]
     
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