mm.. i liked this episode in that a lot happened- i just hope this doesn't end up leading to another whole "jack is in charge but incompetent at it" thing as he and the rest try to figure out what the stuff in Spoiler daniel's journal means.
I'm with Paul... TT was fune for awhile, but the **** is ****ing confusing as hell... Is Daniel right that you CAN change the past? His death would indicate no... At the same time, introducing the idea (daniel is the producers mouthpiece) means yes? ugh... Liked the ep though. Next week is "Follow the leader." Not sure if it's Locke centric, but I hope...
Well, technically 3 episodes. Finale will be in two parts. Sucks though... 1 more season finale and then next year is the series finale.
This time travel stuff is out of hand. When I watch the show I shouldn't have to worry about my head exploding. I really want to find out why Richard Alpert doesn't age. I suspect everybody will be back in the present again for the series' final season.
yeah i think the Richard Centric thing is just speculation... the title would have me thinking it could do something with Ben/Locke and ben having to follow Locke as his leader now... but HOPEFULLY its about Richard... that would be great...
I read something online that made a lot of sense and have formulated my new theory... I think the writers have mind****ed themselves. They've introduced a huge paradox in the show. If the past can be changed as Daniel now believes (or did...) then it ****s up the show in a drastic way. Jack and the Oceanic flight 815 crashe on the island. A bunch of crazy **** happens and 6 of them get to leave, and a bunch have to stay behind time traveling, eventually going to 1954 and the introduction of Jughead, the hydrogen bomb. The o6 go back to the island and Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid go to 1977. Daniel decides he can change the future and wants to blow up Jughead. Daniel strolls into the Others camp, and is killed by his mother (which his mother in 2007/8 knew about, since whatever happened happened). Daniel appears to be wrong. He was always suppose to go back to 1977 and die, or so it seems. Jack will now take up the responsibility of detonating the Hydrogen bomb. If Jack can blow up the bomb (he is a variable according to Daniel)... Then 815 never crashes. But, and here is the paradox... If Jack blows up the bomb, 815 never crashes. If 815 never crashes, than how can Jack blow up the hydrogen bomb? Daniel would not of been sent to the island on the freighter if 815 never crashes. He never would of gone to 1954 and never interact with Jughead. Ergo, if Jack blows up Jughead, then a paradox ensues. As we know, time has "rules". Rules, unlike the popular saying, are not meant to be broken. They're in fact constants. Rules don't have exceptions either, or else they wouldn't be rules. Therefore, If you break a rule, there is a consequence. Mrs. Hawking told Desmond (in her first appearance) that if Desmond asks Penny to marry him, he will never go to the island. If he never goes to the island, he doesn't push the button. If Desmond doesn't push the button, the results would be catastrophic. Would it be catastrophic because of the electromagnetic energy being released? Or would it be catastrophic because time would be altered and any alterations would mean a paradox and thus something really ****ing bad happens to the world? So I think we'll see one of the following. A). Jack detonates Jughead, and a paradox ensues. The consequences of the paradox could result in a mind**** of a cliffhanger. B). Jack tries to detonate Jughead and time course corrects to prevent Jack from fulfilling his goal. Time course correcting could mean anything... Jack doesn't have the ability to see the future like Desmond and won't see it coming most likely. C). Whatever happened, HAPPENED! Jack won't blow up the bomb because he never did. He will continue to fight against the will of the island only to his derision. A would make for a great story, B could be interesting to watch, and C will be the least entertaining and thus the least likely, IMO. The rules of TV/Movies state if you see a gun at some point, it will be fired at another. Same for Jughead. I think A is likely and something really bad happens.
The time travel thing allows the writers too much room to answer every question. It would have been fine if it was just one person (Desmond), but there's so many subplots, so many twists and turns, that I think the title "Lost" actually applies to the audience this year in more ways than one. Although, this is what they had in mind to begin with, or at least during the second season. When the "Tailies" found that chest inside one of the other Dharma stations (Arrow). You guys all remember what was inside right? And I keep coming back to it because it's my only salvation... The glass eye, 2 way radio and a bible that contained edited portions of the orientation video for the Swan. I always thought these items were left as a clue by someone who knew their significance after the fact. As if they were left there so they could be discovered by the Tailies. It's probably nothing, as I'm usually wrong...
and I'm going to quote my own post... there's a paradox.. If the two way radio isn't left in the box, then the tailies PERHAPS never make contact with the other survivors. If the film clip is never spliced back together, what wouldn't have happened???
that's almost 75% of the reason why i DO watch the show now haha how do we know jughead caused the plane to crash in the first place? everyone is assuming that's why they built the swan, and that's what is causing the plane to crash later, right? Perhaps jack succeeds in blowing up the bomb, and that's what blows apart the statue. The swan station thing could be completely irrelevant to Jughead as far as we know, and all that other stuff could still happen, including 815 being pulled down. I'm thinking the writers are gonna go with "this is how everything happened the first time around and you can't change it no matter how hard you try" route, because changing the past to change the future would just ruin everything, and they have to realize that
Jughead has nothing to do with the plane crashing. The reason the plane crashed was revealed in season 3. Desmond failed to push the button, magnetic energy built up and crashed the plane. The reason there was a button was because Dharma ****ed around and unleashed massive energy (according to Dan). So if Dan/Jack can blow up the jughead before the "incident" (which required releasing energy every 108 min), then the plane never crashes. See?
yeah i get the distinct feeling that they will cause the incident themselves by doing whatever faradays journal talks about, and then desmond will volunteer to come back to push the button in order to save penny or something. not exactly sure how it'll all work but methinks a bunch of the assumptions we've had about what happened in the past will turn out to be caused by our 815ers
You know whats strange, we've seen some pages of Dan's journal, there is some really complex stuff in there, given that Jack isnt a physicist isnt there a huge chance that he could totally **** this up?
That's Jack for you... Half assed, reactionary planning. What's REALLY odd is Caesar finding Dan's journal in Ben's office and Ben not knowing a ****ing thing that's going on... I know Ben and Daniel have never interacted, but I can't help but wonder why Ben isn't on top of this. Then again, as you suggest, Dan's journal might be impossible to decipher.
Really awesome episode, IMO. Hurley + Time Travel FTW! The end of this episode is nuts. John Locke has totally changed and now wants to kill Jacob? There's no way Ben can allow that. The look on his face says it all. Hell, even Richard is kinda shaken up by John. Is it possible John is evil? Not caring about Sun and his old friends is from left field. I'm betting Ben is going to have to kill a *****... again.
missed the first half of the episode, but how could John send Richard to help....himself if that was in the past?
I know... I'm excited to see the season wrap up with their epic season finale (seriously, how many shows are 4/4 in epic finales?) but it sucks knowing A). it's the last and B). no more lost for almost a year...
It wasn't the past. Ethan shot John in the leg (Past) and was about to kill him when the island flashed right before he could. Locke then meets Richard in the future. And as we saw, the future was one where two John's existed. One from the present and one traveling through time... I'm not sure if it makes sense?
I am thinking Locke might be calling their bluff, that there is no Jacob at all. to me it seems like Richard and Ben are going to try and protect that fact. It was really shocking that Locke showed a lack of caring by lying to Sun, but his agenda might just be to disprove and lay waste to lies that Richard has been telling his people all along.
How exactly do you detonate a hydrogen bomb? Are they going to whack it with a sledge hammer until it breaks and BOOM! Oh and shouldnt someone have said that the casing is damaged causing a radiation leak?
Could be. I would be majorly disappointed if Jacob isn't real. Then again, the wizard of oz references (specifically Man Behind the Curtain) could of been a clue in plain sight. One thing that confuses me however, if Jacob is in fact made up by Richard... Who spoke to Locke in Jacob's cabin (Man Behind the Curtain) and why was Ben so agitated when John wouldn't tell him what Jacob said to John? Even after he shot John in the kidney area and left him in the pit, Ben DEMANDED to know what Jacob told John. If Jacob is fake, why does Ben ask? John was laying in a 15 foot ditch with a bullet wound in his stomach. He was as good as dead until Walt's manifestation (Island? Jacob?) showed up. Ben believed him dead too, we saw his shock when John threw a knife in Naomi's back. So why did he need to know so badly? I do agree there are instances when Jacob's name is tossed around. Whenever Ben and Richard are being question, they just throw Jacob's name around. "Why?" "Cause Jacob said so, so STFU...." Clearly he isn't telling them ****. It's their own personal dues ex machina. At this point, you may be right. I hope not though. The Dharma mass grave scene shouldn't be a continuity error. One of the thigs that bothers me about this season is continuity errors that have been produced. 6 days and counting...
Why doesn't Jack understand that not EVERYBODY had a good life like him prior to the crash. I thought Kate was going to say something like that.
are they bringing Walt back next season? I thought he was supposed to be a huge part of the show and he's only been in like 2 seasons... also I'm afraid the ending is going to go like this... Daniel's idea that they can change the past is true and Jack destroys the H-bomb which prevents the crash of Oceanic 815. Time course corrects and we flash back to the intro of Season 1 and the plane never crashes and none of this ever happened...
I would be horribly disappointed also. Maybe the reason ben was so adamant about knowing what jacob told locke is because ben has been thinking it all along too and wanted proof himself. I really don't know if we are going to get the answers to this until we get a richard centric episode next season. Hopefully I'm wrong though.
This is my line of thinking for the moment too. I would be devastated...but ot would be a wtf moment and very original ending
I liked last night's episode... but Kate's character was pissing me off in that she doesn't want Jack to do what he wants to do... Why wouldn't she? And then I thought it through... Well, if the last three years didn't happen and flight 815 doesn't crash, she's still in jail or handcuffed to that marshall on the plane. I think that could be the direction that the series finale goes, except that the Losties have a memory of the three years even if it didn't "happen." In my mind, that is a somewhat satisfying result. Better than them not having a memory of it. Completely different topic, regarding Jacob... or is he Christian, Jack's father? That whole thing didn't really make sense to me until John came "back to life" on the island. It worked for John because he was on the island before (I guess)... so following that logic, is it safe to assume that Christian was on the island before? I know the theory behind smokey/Jacob and the monster taking shape of someone who is familiar to the person seeing him/her... but why would Christian be visible to Locke? Locke doesn't know who he is??
