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Can't Cameron

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pariah, Dec 7, 2007.

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  1. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Little Rhody
    Anyone else got any other good nicknames for this bum?
     
  2. fins4o8

    fins4o8 Mac FTW!

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    someone from phinsider called Cam, "Cam-moron".or something like that.
     
  3. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    How about "the convenient scapegoat for years of front office ineptitude simply because he happens to be head coach at the time of this team's long-coming collapse"?

    Hey, it fits.
     
  4. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Little Rhody
    So what your saying is you agree with his decisions, play calling, clock management, etc?

    I know the difference between players playing badly and coaches coaching badly, and what I see is a mixture of both, the last "coaching" move he made that I truly felt was a good to great call, was the statue of libery play in the preseason...

    good coaches make bad teams better, bad coaches make bad teams worse...
     
  5. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    i believe it was Gary Stevens (correct me if i'm wrong) that said, as he was being run outta Miami on a rail, something to the effect of..."you can't make chicken salad when all you have is chicken ****"...

    of course that is not a direct quote but something to that nature and tone. i think the same can be said here. Cam may not have beeen 100% this season, but he has not been horrible either. that goes to Wanny. we need to see him at least one more season to see if he is going to be good or not. if after next season we are 0-16/4-12, then i say he needs to go.
     
  6. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Here is the question. What did you DISAGREE with? I mean you should have some convictions seeing as you are carrying the label "Fire Can't Cameron" in your signature. Share them with us.....
     
  7. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    -HORRIBLE clock management throughout the season
    -disagreed w/ most of his 4th down calls this year
    -playcalls in critical situations (philly game - 4th and goal, sweep to JC with sprained ankle??)
    -toying with Ronnie/Chatman mix early on
    -not playing starting D in preseason
    -not being head coach in preseason game (minor)
    -giving playcalling back to Mularkey
    -having playcalls go through 3 people
    -waiting forever to play J.Allen at safety
    -not hiring an OC in offseason
    -not utilizing JT properly (I'll defer to JT on that one)
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I agree with the things you said in your last post, burger, but, I also look at it a little differently. Cam has a winless team. He's trying to do things to keep them in games. For instance, we can complain all day about how boring our offense has been, and how cautious it has been, but, is that just a result of Cam trying to call simple plays, to give his guys a chance to execute? As much as it sucks, I don't think you can fire Cam after one season. He inherited a severely flawed team, with an aging defense (who really showed their age this season). Do you really think we'd have lost some of these games if Zach had played in them? I don't. If Cam doesn't improve next season, then yeah, he needs to go. He also needs to get rid of Mularkey. I couldn't believe they kept him around after last season.
     
  9. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    I will make this easy for you here. Let me break the question down.


    "-HORRIBLE clock management throughout the season"


    When? Where? What would you have rather done? Why?
     
  10. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    "-disagreed w/ most of his 4th down calls this year"

    I cannot recall all of them. I know that there have been many. I also cannot recall any where I said "You can't do that!" To the contrary, the majority of the time I have said -

    You are trailing by two touchdowns.

    You have not moved the ball all day.

    You are 0 and whatever.

    You have nothing to lose.

    Your offense needs a chance to start believing.

    Go for it!
     
  11. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    "-playcalls in critical situations (philly game - 4th and goal, sweep to JC with sprained ankle??)"


    I will tell you as I told that dumbass Armando in his blog. Vince Lombardi had his own "sucker" play. A sucker play is where you let a defender come free. His momentum carries him right past the runner. Vince Lombardi ran the sucker play versus Bob Lily in the Ice Bowl. That is "Hall of Fame" Bob Lily. That was a championship game. I don't think their is a more critical situation. Lombardi ran a similar play. Lombardi ran a similar play versus a hall of famer.

    There was nothing questionable about giving the ball to Jesse Chatman. It was either give it to him or let a rookie QB throw it on fourth and goal in his FIRST PROFESSIONAL GAME.

    The play series went as follows:

    Dive
    Play Action to TE
    Off Tackle
    Sucker Sweep

    He tried everything possible given the circumstances.
     
  12. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    But im sure the Packers RB at the time(Donny Anderson?) didnt have a bad ankle.
     
  13. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    the correct call - KICK THE FG!!

    but that kinda goes with #2....I still think it was a bad call beyond them going for it. The DE on that side who was unblocked is a speed end (Jacqua Thoma, sp?) and a gimpy JC had virtually no chance at making it around him as the play design called for. My call for best chance to get around an end who you think might bite inside is a playaction to Chatman and roll out Beck with an option to throw to the TE.

    Furthermore, it's a play that if it goes bad (which it obvioulsy did), the Eagles are no longer pinned to their goalline as they would have been if they stuffed us on a dive or we had thrown incomplete.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  14. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Good! See, now we can have a conversation (except I'm going to sleep in a minute).......

    Thank you Dave Wannstedt. JK

    Go to NFL.com and review that game. I already have. This offense was not making it to the other side of the 50 to often. We had to get a touchdown. We had to get momentum.

    As for the gimp - he's all we had. We had to go with the gimp. The gimp was a better choice than Patrick Cobbs.

    He had one man to beat. It's an offensive minded coach. That is what we wanted after watching years of conservative Wanny ball. The team was 0-10 at that point. Any result other than a touchdown was going to be bad. Look at the play by play. I don't know if we visited that side of the field again.......
     
  15. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Moving down the list....

    I can't believe I'm reading this. If I reviewed your posts at Finheaven, would I find a post that said,

    "WTF is Ronnie Brown dancing before he hits the hole?"

    He was doing the same thing at the beginning of the year. I never made an observation on the subject because I realize that the television crews give us a horrible angle to see line play develope.

    One of two things had to happen because we saw a change. Either the line started opening gaping holes (which I never saw) or Ronnie Brown quit dancing about til he tried to bounce outside. I like to think coaching had a little to do with the latter. But hey, I'm an optimist.
     
  16. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    I'll admit, I am conservative by nature....but taking the points was the right call there. Especially since we had 3 plays from the 1. It wasn't like we had 1st and goal from the 9 and had just gotten to the 1 and now he had this sure-fire play to get in from there. he was on his 4th try at getting us in from that spot....his 4th best play for that situation if you will. the first 3 already failed. Kick the FG.

    ok...so if a gimp is your best chance, you don't call a play that is 100% reliant on the gimp beating a guy to the corner. watching the play again, there was hardly any fake left that would draw in the DE...the DE's first step was out right where Chatman was going.

    you need 2 scores. doesn't matter which we got there. even if he got the TD, and we are unsure that we can cross mid-field again what does it matter. but fail on 4th down, and now you have to cross midfield twice more instead of once more.
     
  17. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    I definately miss finheaven for the purpose of going back and seeing what people were righting at the time......:lol:

    you would find posts from the pre-season saying that he really isn't that stupid to split carries and once the season starts, Ronnie will be carrying the load and Chatman will be lucky to have 1/4 of the carries that Ronnie has by the end of the year. by week 2 my tune had change a little to "is he really that stupid?" :sad:

    EDIT: found this post from before the Reskin game on how I felt about the Ronnie/Chatman situation before season:

    http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4094108#post4094108

    post #148 of that thread if it doesn't take you directly to it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  18. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Oh but there was purpose in it and you didn't address the style of running observation in your response. :wave:
     
  19. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Exactly. I mean, being aggressive is refreshing from the conservative JJ/Wanny years but being aggressive requires common sense. You dont be aggressive and stupid like Cam has been this year, its not much different from Mularkeys play calling last year.
     
  20. testtubetimmy

    testtubetimmy New Member

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    Here is a question for you Zod, What did you AGREE with? What coaching decisions has Cam made this season that inspires confidence that he is the guy?

    Take away his past record as OC for San Diego and start fresh from day 1. What makes you think this is the guy who will lead us to the Superbowl?

    If you don't think he'll lead us there, then he shouldn't be our HC.
     
  21. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    I thought ronnie was capable of that all along. I did think that playcalling could improve and help him. I don't think that Ronnie changed his running style, I just think he finally started getting the necessary touches and some holes.
     
  22. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    It's a sucker play. We didn't find a sucker. The play relies upon the DE crashing the off tackle.

    Maybe the DE crashed the previous off tackle play? I don't have Tivo. Someone check that for me! :001_rolleyes:


    Dave, your offense stinks. You take the points when you have the chance. IT'S ONE YARD!



    On the conservative side note:

    I told a coaching buddy recently - "my coaching style is best described as 'coaching not to lose'. I told him that my style reminds me of Dave Wannstedt....and I hate Dave Wannstedt."

    I guess that is what we get from watching years of Dave.
     
  23. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    So it was the Coach and the O-line - not Ronnie Brown?


    You got any Auburn Tigers clothing in your closet? :glare:
     
  24. testtubetimmy

    testtubetimmy New Member

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    Not to mention our OLine really started gelling and opening up holes right in front of Ronnie for him to run through.

    His vision got a bit better, it was expected after two years of being in the NFL.

    I was one of the guys who, I'll admit, thought Ronnie was a bust. But like then, how much do we really know about how good he is? He had a few good games and now is on IR. I don't think that's enough evidence to crown him King Awesome. But he def got better.
     
  25. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    I'll have to pick this up later. I've got to be back to work in 8 hours.



    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
  26. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Little Rhody
    HA! well I just woke up! and I this argument has been played out for me without having to say anything!

    I can agree with pretty much all of what burger is saying here (especially the goaline play call, although I do see Zod's point I agree with Burger) one of my main beefs with him is exactly what LT said earlier this year, as the guy just seems to be stubborn.

    He continually goes with a certain style even when it seem to be not working, there have been many times this year where we have seen him run the ball on 2nd and short yardage, these are perfect passing downs (especially play action). I can go on all day on the situations where he has just pounded the ball instead of trying to pass (espescially since Beck has taken over) and to me I would rather see an attempt at passing and fail, than a failed run.

    On his clock management, OK Zod I will say, he has gotten better, at the beginning of the year I was under the impression he thought the NFL was offering rollover timeouts, and (redskins game - steelers game) getting the play in on time has been a problem all year, we NEED an O coordinator.

    Ok i need to actually get out of bed, Burger hit the nail on the head as far as a lot of what I think on Cameron (thanks for giving me a cop out Burger, cause Im hungry and need some breakfast/lunch!)

    But I will aslo add this, why If Trent Green is injured and your second stringer (lemon) is QB, is your third stringer (and future starter) NOT splitting reps with the first team O in either preperation or in case Lemon got hurt...

    Oh yeah and I wanted to add also, having played the game for many years, the true sign of a coach losing his team is when the players start doging practice, runing their nouths, and not showing outward support (JT, Feely,Traylor...etc) of their coach.

    Like I said earlier, I have been a fan for just about over 25 years, I live in Rhode Island which is the heart of New England and Patriot Country, and I have watched every play of every game this year, I LOVE the Dolphins. I started out this year In full support of Cam and (just like I believe some players have also) I have lost faith in him. IF I am wrong, I will actually eat my words and be SUPER happy about it...theres nothing more in sports that i want then to have this team succeed, so Id be glad to be wrong on this one...

    OK on to eating food...

    OH YEAH one thing, can not liking his face be a reason? cause it p'sses me off for some reason lately...
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  27. gottahavefootball

    gottahavefootball New Member

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    I have to say on the 4th down I go for the TD every time in that situation. You score the TD there and you only need to get to about the 35 to tie with a FG. The chances of getting 1 extra yard there vs kicking the FG and needing an extra 35 later to score a TD to tie is much better. I highly disagree with the play call. Like burger said, you throw or dive or qb sneak, then at least if you fail you have Philly at the one or less and a chance to get a saftey and still be one score out... but the risk of losing yards with the sweep is not worth it...
     
  28. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    Little Rhody

    YES, I liked the QB sneak call there especially with the athletic Lemon...even a naked bootleg would have seemed better suited...

    I Know the response will be "well they would have expected those calls" well they also expected a sweep didn't they? :up:
     
  29. gottahavefootball

    gottahavefootball New Member

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    The naked bootleg is still a little more risky, although he could throw the ball away there is a chance he gets caught from behind... If JC had a qb mentality he could have thrown the ball away also seeing he had no chance of getting by, but rb's tend not to think like that.
     
  30. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    Hmmm....interesting.
     
  31. BringBackSaban

    BringBackSaban Banned

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    Pathetic doushebag loser - I hope that CaMORON gets hit by a bus in the stadium parking lot, we're better off letting Mularkey assume head coaching duties than this worthless bum!

    We get it, you don't like the coach. Relax. -Muck
     
  32. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    OMG, no one has ever put it that way. You're right, fire Cameron. Let's bring in Jared Fogel to be our head coach. If he can sell a sandwich, he can run a professional football team. Thanks man, I'm finally seeing the light. I nominate you for post of the decade.
     
  33. Dtronic

    Dtronic Season Tickets Sec. 150

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    No one is worse than Mularkey, but Cam is close for letting him call plays.
     
  34. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    Alot Of U People In Here Are Crapy Dolphins Fans Im Not Saying Everyone Is But Most Of U Guys Are Terrble It Doesnt Matter Who The Coach Was This Year We Would Have The Same Record As We Have Now
     
  35. SarahAnn

    SarahAnn New Member

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    Is Your Shift Key Malfunctioning Or Something?

    Dont tell other people how to be fans. You have no right to judge how other people support their team.
     
  36. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    First let me say this. I do not know how it reads when I relay my experiences. I do not want to come off as some kind of wondercoach. I'm just trying to relay my experience.



    Clock Management

    Have you ever built a team from scratch? I was a part of that just this year at the HS level. It was 25 kids. Only one had ever played football in his life prior to this team. We won three games but there were teams that we didn't belong on the field with. We warned our seniors that they would take some lumps so that the rest of the guys could continue on and play football. Let me tell you, when it got ugly - it got ugly for us.

    Have you ever managed a clock with a bad team? Do you know what you do with the clock and a bad team? You run the clock out. That is what you do. Your team does not belong on the field with the other team. So rather than extend the game and risk injury to your best players, you become lackluster about getting the calls in on offense. You don't tell your players to drain the clock and you don't tell the media what you are doing as that would serve as a confidence killer. They will wonder why you are draining the clock and they are losing on the scoreboard. Players want to win. They are alot like kids in some ways. Sometimes you have to protect them from what they want.

    I stood in a coaches meeting at half time just this year. Coach was looking for thoughts on what we had to do to get back in the game. We were down by 27 points. I looked him square in the eye and said "run the ball". Another coach suggested our spread passing game on offense. I reiterated "Run the ball and keep that 35 point scoring offense off the field (pointing at the scoreboard). We have injuries everywhere and we cannot compete with this team."

    So you mention clock management and you see a problem "getting the plays in". I don't see a problem with it at all. I've looked this bear in the face. All Cam Cameron wants is another offseason to prepare his troops. That I can assure you. Why? Cause standing in the similar shoes - that's all I wanted.
     
  37. testtubetimmy

    testtubetimmy New Member

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    My thoughts exactly SarahAnn. Especially with the shift key.

    It's one thing to make comments on how the team is being run. It's another all together to attack people for their beliefs.
     
  38. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    im not telling u or anybody else how to support the team i am just saying alot of people are acting really childish and i am probly one of the youngest people in here if u guys want to make up stupid little nickname for the coach that has had a lot of injurys on offence and deffence be my guest and for u information i didnt mean to have the caps lock on
     
  39. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    "-giving playcalling back to Mularkey"
    "-having playcalls go through 3 people"

    I have posted this everywhere so I will post it here again. I've had only one reply to this comment and that was something similar to

    "Zod - trying to save Cameron's butt one response at a time."

    Try giving me a decent, informative response. I reread about 10 pages to find this. That's my effort. Please give me a little more effort.


    Bill Arnsparger

    Coaching Defensive Football

    Page 354

    "........I know from firsthand experience that the action on the field is very different from the action in the coach's box upstairs. Today, it is interesting to see several head coaches take on a game day responsibility of offensive coordinator. Mike Holmgren is doing it in Green Bay, Lindy Infante did the same thing at Indianapolis, and Kevin Gilbride has recently accepted the role with the Chargers. They may have an assistant with the title, and I am sure they receive information from the coach's box (which we all need at times), but it is obvious that they are making the final decision on the play called. In the early years at Miami, Howard Schnellenberger and Coach Shula worked together in a similar manner."
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  40. SarahAnn

    SarahAnn New Member

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    First capping every word, now capping none. :lol:

    Though I agree that it is childish to make up names like Cant Cameron, I also believe he deserves it and as Dolphin fans right now if letting your inner child out while watching the games go ahead.

    Anything that helps make all these loses more bareable. :lol:
     

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