1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Satele Traded to The Raiders

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PerfectTeam, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,358
    9,641
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Northwest New Jersey
    I'm guessing its round 3, we would move from #87 to # 71
     
  2. mi2cents

    mi2cents New Member

    don't you read the posts ahead of yours: they don't have a fifth this year:wink2:
     
  3. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    4,052
    2,347
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Thats a big jump in talent for the 3rd round! Very fair deal for us if this hold true.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    Moving up in round 3 or 4 would almost be worth it without getting a 6th. LOL.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    With the Grove and Berger signings we were set at C, and I highly doubt we draft one either unless its Unger who can be general OL depth. We could still look at G since we dont know how Thomas is, but Im sure we wont be using a high round pick, and certainly not our first rounder on depth as some people are saying.

    This move wasnt a great move, would have liked to get a tad more, but neither was it a bad move, in that we moved a redundant out of scheme player. Hopefully we make the most of the draft positioning it brings us.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    Tex, don't forget to add Wood to the C/G versatility list....unless you were referring to Unger as RT as well. LOL.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  7. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,224
    36,965
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    I think some of you need to calm down a little bit. Satele just doesn't fit in our system, so what's the point of holding onto him? And now that the news has broken that we will be swapping picks in one round I consider this a pretty fair deal overall.

    I wish Samson the best of luck in Oakland.
     
  8. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Being the third round is now day two that would be a great swap for us as it allows us to be able to have plenty of time to go over 6 or 7 players that we will consider drafting.

    If it were just a 6th round pick, I'd be disappointed. But a swap in the 3rd round would make me feel a lot better.

    EDIT: According to the draft chart, that equals out to be a high 4th, so I think most should be happy with that trade if that were true...
     
    Rocky Raccoon likes this.
  9. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,358
    9,641
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Northwest New Jersey
  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,224
    36,965
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
  11. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Not ideal, but it's still solid compensation. I can't really complain. It equates to a mid/late 4th rounder to the chart, so that's not so bad...
     
  12. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

    8,474
    1,991
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    RI
    Not a fan of the trade. We could've have gotten more for him IMO.
     
  13. 124

    124 Banned

    5,014
    2,160
    0
    May 12, 2008
    Report on Sirius NFL radio is Miami received a 6th round pick.
     
  14. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,358
    9,641
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Northwest New Jersey
    I willing to bet we couldn't, or we would have! :wink2:
     
  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    from who? We need a partner and this is the deepest Center draft class of all time. LOL
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  16. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    Agreed. Good, but not great deal. Probably the best the FO could do.
     
  17. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

    21,837
    10,818
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Kansas City, MO
    I think that this is a really lopsided trade that clearly favors the Raiders.

    The Raiders get a young (24 years old) and proven (32 games started) center that has at times shown Pro Bowl Potential.

    The Dolphins get to move up 16 spots in round 4, and pick up an extra 6th round pick.
    I think it's a terrible deal for us and a case where we're dumping a player just because he isn't perfect for our system. Our starting LG, C, and RG have all missed large amounts of time due to injuries, and we just traded off a young and proven guy that could have been a perfect backup.

    I don't like the move much at all.
     
    Trowa and like2god like this.
  18. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,681
    10,413
    113
    May 7, 2008
    New Orleans
    This has already been established...and then some.

    I like the trade. To those who say "we could have gotten more", I'd like to know what you base this opinion on. I'm sure we let teams know he was "on the block". Its not like Seattle was offering its 2nd rounder and Ireland decided to pass.

    I have faith in the Trio. ESPECIALLY when it comes to offensive linemen.
     
  19. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    VO, the only rebut on this is that perhaps the Trio didn't share the opinion you have of Satele ?? I don't recall anyone confusing Satele with a PB C...and if he was not what the Trio wanted in a C, what makes you think he'd have been what they wanted as a G ?? I don't see the attraction...Satele was rated higher by the fans because he was our second best OL in 2007 and third best OL in 2008 ?? He looked better than he was because of how poor the rest of the OL was...

    Someone in another thread figured out the points for the deal and it was somewhere around pick #117, a 4th rounder...(the sixth plus the difference in points between the swapped picks)...a 4th rounder for what would obviously have been a backup OL is not bad value...
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    I think some people are confusing what we WANTED Satele to be and what he actually was.

    I think its a good trade for Oakland, and an OK trade for us. I would have liked to get more, but we did ok for a guy who was not going to be more than a backup for a system that didnt fit him at all.

    I think we address some G help in the draft or via further FA but without any big names. There have been many teams that have built some solid lines via that method, just because we arent dumping a 1-2 round pick into every position, or blowing wads of cash on the biggest names to come out doesnt mean our line will be terrible guys. This coaching staff especially is very familiar with the positions, have a little faith.
     
  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    There is a lot of talent atop round 4 that will be long gone by our normal pick.... Which could make this is a great trade for us! It keeps us from having to reach with our 3rd and possibly 2b. This along with adding an early #6 really opens the draft for us.

    Trading up that high high in 4 is worth a 5th round pick in itself. ;)
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  22. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

    21,837
    10,818
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Kansas City, MO
    If it was just me that had stated that they saw something special in Satele, I would agree with you that I'm overreacting. However, I don't feel like I'm out on an island with this one.

    If you recall, back in January of last year, guys like Paul Zimmerman of Sports Illustrated were suggesting that Satele might be a future Pro Bowler.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/11/14/rankings.part3/

    And this as well, also from Zimmerman, when talking about his All Pro Team.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/dr_z/01/09/all.pros/1.html

    My frustration stems from a number of things:

    1. We're cutting lose a guy who has only played in two seasons, one of which he gutted it out and played through injury. We all talk about giving other players additional opportunities (see Ginn, Ted, or Beck, John), but we aren't providing that same type of second chance to Satele. The dude finished the season with one good arm and two scrubs starting next to him at LG and RG.
    2. Some may forget, but Satele was the guy that we originally drafted with the pick that we got for Wes Welker from the Patriots. So ... we basically have traded Welker, one of the games premier slot receivers, for a 6th round pick, and to move up 16 spots in round 4.
    3. None of our projected starters (Grove, Thomas, Smiley) started and finished the entire year last year. Jake Grove, who we just paid 29 million to in FA, has finished exactly one full season in five chances. Justin Smiley is a little bit more durable, with a sparking 2 out of 5 years injury-free, but he has finished each of the last 2 years on IR. Don Thomas, our 6th round rookie, is trying to come back from a Lisfranic fracture, and it remains to be seen how effective he will be in coming back.
    4. The value (16 spots in round 4, 6th rounder) is less than what we would have had, should we keep Satele on the team. From my post above, I fully believe that whomever we have backing up G and/or C will likely see the field in 2009 ... just based on past history. I find it amazing that we resign a guy like Ike Ndukwe, and instead trade away a guy that could have provided solid depth for us.
    It just seems to me like we face long odds of getting a solid player in return for what we gave up, that's all. I do agree that this wasn't the right scheme for Samson; and that he struggled a bit this year. That said, I fully expect him to go to Oakland with a chip on his shoulder. This looks to me, at first glance, like one of those deals that we're going to regret in a few years, after Satele goes out and excels in a zone-blocking scheme for the Raiders.
     
    Trowa, like2god, Pauly and 1 other person like this.
  23. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

    4,454
    1,910
    0
    Dec 10, 2007
    New York
    A late 4th is fair for what was a late 2nd round pick 2 years ago who was destined for the bench this year. Whomever we wind up with in this year's draft vs. Wes Welker? That is something else.

    That being said, I hate it anytime a team has to dump players simply because they don't fit within the system. Call me crazy and old school, but I still believe good coaches can always find a place within their system for good players. This may be the byproduct of the constant turnover the dolphins have had in the front office and on the sidelines, but it is frustrating to see fan favorites like Zach Thomas and Satele go to other teams simply because they don't fit the system.

    I'm not knocking the trio here. They've done wonderfully so far. And they did re-sign Bell, Crowder, and Carey to big contracts. And those were players brought in before the Trio, who clearly fit within the old and new systems. It's just something that frustrates me even when I see other teams do it. Dump a decent player for sometimes less than they are worth only to see them flourish in the right system.
     
    Trowa likes this.
  24. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,681
    10,413
    113
    May 7, 2008
    New Orleans
    I get your point. Good coaches should be able to adapt to the talent they have. But there is a big difference between the run-first Shula changing his system to adapt to the talent of Dan Marino and Parcells trading Satele. I mean, the guy may be good and all, but he's still just a center. All 22 starters are valuable, but let's be honest, a center isn't that valuable compared to other offensive positions.

    Also, I'm not sure that Satele was a "fan favorite".
     
  25. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,085
    1,758
    113
    Jun 22, 2008
    Fans have cut some players slack in the past. Coaches just haven't found a player of value to purge the others yet. And really, you can't include Beck, he's now a third stringer.

    Lets balance that equation... welker for a 6th, up 16 spots in the 4th, and Grove

    <EDIT> I know we get raked over the coals any way you dice it with the welker trade, so I like to think of this trade for simply what it was: Samson for Grove+ a 6th, + 16 spots in the 4th.

    Valid. I expect the plan is to get depth from the draft. I think depth on this team means future starter or trade bait.

    Assuming we blow folks off the line of scrimmage next year, I'll judge this off season a raging success.

    This is apples and oranges. Do we zone-block, if not, who cares if he's a pro-bowler at it. He was below average last year playing for Miami, I'll take what I can get and take my bets with a scheme matching rookie with an eye to the future.
     
  26. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

    4,454
    1,910
    0
    Dec 10, 2007
    New York
    Completely agree. You change your system when you have a Dan Marino. You find a spot for a pure football player like Zach Thomas in his prime. You don't change anything for a 2nd round center.

    I think this was a fair trade, and probably fairly reflects what our coaching staff, and probably the rest of the league, thought of Satele's talents and potential after 2 years as a starter. My only objection would be if Satele is worth a late 4th (using the combined draft value) at this point only because he doesn't fit into the Dolphins system. When that is the justification, I feel you need to trade him to a team that fits his style, and get them to give up what he is worth to them, not just what he is worth to you.
     
  27. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

    21,837
    10,818
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Kansas City, MO
    There's a difference between cutting a guy slack, and understanding his play went down because he played through injury.

    I don't see how you can include Grove, a street FA, and call that compensation for Welker. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

    Satele would have provided proven depth and would have come cheap. When your 3 starters all have missed long stretches of time in the last season, proven depth is an asset that we need to have. Just look at what happened to us after Smiley went down last year.

    You're more optimistic about this than I am. Oakland ran for 3.64 YPC going up the middle last year, good for 30th in the NFL. Miami, on the other hand, with Satele and company, ran for 4.05 YPC. I don't see us plugging in Grove and immediately saying "upgrade."

    That's my point - he had a solid rookie campaign - and regressed a bit due to an undisclosed injury, as well as injuries to the folks around him. I can remember watching games last year where Satele had to slide off his man to help block Ndukwe's guy. It seems extremely short-sighted for us to trade him for limited value.

    Hey, if Grove comes in, stays healthy, and our rushing averages go up, I'm all for the move. But based on recent history, I'm not convinced that's going to happen.
     
    Trowa, like2god, Pauly and 1 other person like this.
  28. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,085
    1,758
    113
    Jun 22, 2008
    No you are right, I had a stupid moment. My fault.


    I know how Satele plays center, how well does he play Guard or tackle? I don't know. Couldn't comment, if he is capable, I can be convinced that we traded for to little.


    OL is a team sport, can't judge YPG and place fault soley on Groves. <EDIT> Also, the Lines appear to be the most coachable. Meaning a well coached line of average quality could out perform a poorly coached line of stars.

    Again, I can buy into that, assuming he can play these other positions.

    I believe I read that groves injuries were all root cause from an initial injury. Now that he has recovered from that injury, "he says" he's fine. Time will tell. I imagine if he goes down we'll all be wishing for Samson.

    One last remark, Parcells and company pride themselves on trench development. I have... faith.. in their judgement regarding oline. I understand that's a candy-*** response. But I give them the benefit of the doubt.
     
    ToddsPhins and Vengeful Odin like this.
  29. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

    2,111
    585
    0
    Dec 3, 2007
    North Jersey
    This is the first time I have read this as I have been out of town since Thursday
    Can someone please change my mind about who I feel incredibly ripped off on this trade? Essentially we traded a guy we spent a 2nd round pick on, who started every game for us since he was drafted - 32, for a switch of spots in the 4th and a 6th round pick... IMO we should have gotten a solid 3rd or 4th out of this deal.... I feel raped
     
  30. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Shoulder injuries of the type Satele suffered typically take 12months+ to fully recover from, so Satele is unlikely to play at top level in '09. That does devalue his trade value.

    I do think that Satele will be a pro-bowl centre in the fullness of time, but it wasn't going to happen in Miami, but in an offense calling for mobile centres.

    Personally I feel very sorry sor Sampson. Getting traded to the Raiders is a professional death knell. The only thing that could be worse would be getting traded to the Lions.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  31. PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN

    PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN Well-Known Member

    971
    275
    63
    Nov 9, 2008
    We signed him to a 5 yr 30 Million dollar contract. He's gonna start.
     
  32. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,191
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL


    if you follow the value chart, a 6th and the move up in the 4th round is equal to about a mid 4th round value....
     
    dolpns13 likes this.
  33. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,867
    24,359
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    I think it is a good trade for both teams. The Fins are going to get a shot at a better player in the 4th round plus we are going to get another player in the 6th. 6th rounder are normally nothing more then fodder BUT you never know... At least we have a horse in the race.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  34. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,867
    24,359
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    about the 21st pick of the 4th round to be exact.... :yes:
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  35. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

    2,111
    585
    0
    Dec 3, 2007
    North Jersey
    I guess... I dont know, still feelin raped... Hopefully we get some value out of the move and the pick
     
  36. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

    5,403
    4,485
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    California
    Ireland confirmed we got the Raiders 6th rounder and we exchanged spots in the 4th round, moving us up 18 spots.
     
    The Aqua Crush and brandon27 like this.
  37. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

    2,643
    909
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Colorado Springs, CO
    I am not crazy about giving up Satele and not getting that much back in return, but if Grove can be the kind of Center he was at Va Tech, then I don't think we will miss Satele at all. I don't know which "Samson Satele" that Zimmerman was looking at when he said Satele looked like he could be a future Pro Bowler? Satele doesn't have the arm length, size or power to deal with bigger nose tackles. Haloti Ngata of the Ravens ate Satele's lunch in the playoffs.

    Grove just has to stay off the injured list. I would might use the 6th rounder to take punter/kicker Graham Gano, of Florida State....he could replace Brandon Fields and also handle kickoffs, and have Carpenter just focus on field goals.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  38. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    I understand your frustration, but the fact is: Satele is a Lineman. Where else will you find a role for him that someone in the draft won't have more experience with. You put Satele in a new position and he will have to learn it. Special teams? Dline?

    The fact that the other guys you mentioned fit our scheme is purely coincedental. If they didn't fit, they'd be gone. It's not like we changed our scheme to revolve around them. The NFL is so specialized that you really need to fight the top talent for your particular scheme....which is what makes Parcels so great. He has an eye for assessing the talent that best fits his system. Of course there will be causualties, but one player isn't nearly as bad as KC having to redo an entire defense. LOL.
    The new system put us 11-5. So where's the problem? :dunno:

    The fact is- Satele still is Pro Bowl potential in the right offensive system b/c he is great in a specialized field. Bottom line- he can't play to his potential in our system so he shouldn't be here. Why would you want a guy playing for us who can't play to his best at the position he is supposed to be playing?

    Don't forget: Satele is involved in this too. How much would you enjoy being taken out of the position/role you've enjoyed playing at and excelling at since college, only to be put into a role that doesn't let you play to your best or maximize your potential. I'd lose the love for the game if someone did this to me. :wink2:

    If the NFL were as easy as plugging people in all over the field because they don't fit their original position, there would be no such thing as a "bust".
     
  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    You made a great point. You're line of thinking is right. just a little skewed. LOL.
    Going against more 3-4s, Center is actually becoming 2nd in importance to LT.... hence the even greater need to uprade Satele b/c he is a subpar drive blocker against larger NT's. In zone/play action, pass protection/picking up blitzes etc...he's awesome regardless of who he's really facing. Unfortunately that's not us anymore. LOL.
     
  40. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

    3,004
    1,653
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    West Georgia
    Sure just like Wilford started, and how much did we give him bro. Just saying if he tanks or goes down injured you never know. Hell we were weeks away from having Henne start last year as a rookie at the most critical position until Penny fell our way. A lot can happen between now and then.
     

Share This Page