JT on confidence in Camerom

oops, sorry didn't see this post...I think we agree. I am just not 100% sure I like the foundation he is pouring, but time will tell.

 

About the blocking thing..Booker is no worse then Chatman. If we are going by talent or potential I think Booker should get the nod. Booker needs to be given more opportunities in losing games atleast, which seems to be all of them.

 

I am glad you think thats a good trait. Wannstedt had a similar approach.

 

from what we have seen from ZT JT and Cam......Cam has proven the third most likely to help the Dolphins achieve any victories over the next 3-4 years. We know what JT and ZT can contribute to winning football games, even at this stage in their careers, I haven't seen 1 single thing that Cam can contribute to winning. (unless you count poor clock management, questionable play calls and questionable personell moves).

Oh....and why is it trying to win games for them?? Isn't winning games the ONLY reason that the entire team and coaching staff takes the field every week? If you're in the NFL and that's not your reason for being out there, then you shouldn't have a job!!!

 

Booker's blocking is in fact a lot worse than Chatman's. Besides, Booker just isn't ready to carry the ball on the next level - he's somewhat of a poor man's Willie Parker and goes down way too easily. Give him another offseason and he might just develop into a Reggie Bush type of player. As of now, Chatman is by far the better option when it comes to blocking and carrying.

 

You do know that "tuck and roll" is not blocking right? lol....well we agree on disagreeing.

 

KB,
I have a ton of respect for you and I mostly agree with your list of positives and I'll even assume you are correct that all those things are attributable to Cam. All that being said, where are the results? Shouldn't there have been at least one win by now? I didn't come into this season expecting playoffs but I expected better than this (not unreasonably I don't think).

I understand the need for continuity but if we can't even get one win against the second worst team in the league where is the evidence that things are going to be appreciably better if we continue with this guy as the coach? Is one or two wins acceptable next year? Then four or five the year after that? How is Cam going to have any credibility with his players if he can't lead them to victory in one stinking game? Espescially when he has no record as a head coach to back him up.

 

Sure. It's just that I wonder if we talk about the same Booker or the same game or even the same solar system ...

 

Beck over Lemon.
Ginn over Chambers

If you're expecting one day to see all veterans on the field and the next day to see all 1st and 2nd year players lining up. Then you may not understand the concept of potential or ability to play in an NFL game without looking like a fool.I would think you would have to show enough talent to be equal to or better then the current starter in order to be made the starter. You can't just throw a bunch of pups out there just because they're pups, you only use the ones that can hunt.

 

Well we are dolphins fans so it makes you wonder if we're even sane.

 

Have you heard of "loyalty to a fault"? Wanny's was seismic. Cams was one game.

 

You cant have loyalty in pro sports, not as a coach. When the player "loses" it, he has to be repositioned or benched. Team first.

 

Very true. This play the rookies now mentality never ceases to amaze me. I could name countless examples of rookies whose development was seriously harmed or outright destroyed by playing too early. However, I have a hard time thinking of a single one whose development was killed by playing three or five games later than the fans wanted.

 

Carr comes to mind.

 

Give me a break. Improvement? We've been hit hard with injuries left and right. We're playing a ROOKIE QUARTERBACK. Hello? He's leading a YOUNG offense (with the exception of Shelton, Liweinski, and M.Booker). It's hard to improve when you drop from Ronnie Brown to Samkon Gado. Cameron is rebuilding this team, we've seen the flashes. The defense is getting better, they are just suffering from the offense's learning curve (6 turnovers or so last game?) and getting tired out during the games. The Jets offense has been together for quite some time. The offensive line has been playing for a full year and a half, the Jets WRs have caught passes from Clemens for a while. Thomas Jones has been in the Jets O long enough... C'mon, think things through. A young offense needs time to develop, it's not going to happen over night.

 

Yes, everyone gives lip service to ONLY being out there to win. We must never admit that sometimes there are other agendas that drive everyday decisions lest we alienate ticket buyers.

Shhhh.

 

Or Joey Harrington, for that matter.

 

thanks for the input....a very nice post.

but to break it down, his highlights are:
-the improvement of the O-Line under one of the best O-Line coaches in the game.
-giving a top-5 back an oppritunity (which took him too long).
-Playing Crowder at MLB (noone could have figured that out after ZT got hurt).
-Playing J.Allen at safety AFTER 27 injuries and 16 failed FA pickups.
-Will Allens solid play (which was very good before "Cam's decision" to blitz him.
-Playing R.Wright after Holliday got hurt.

I know that I am simplifying things.....but this is how anyone who is skcptical of how poor Cam has done would see these moves. I think that in looking for the silver lining you are giving Cam WAY too much credit.

 

Beck over Lemon was all too obvious....and took too long.

Chambers is not starting for the Dolphins because they got value in return....not because Cam had forsaken winning for youth.

I DON'T expect to see all 1st and 2nd year players out there....I expect to see the palyers that give us the best chance to win out there. But by what you said, you should expect to see the young guys out there, and the players who don't have a future here on the bench (guys like M.Booker and K.Traylor).

 

And I think in looking at the rusted tin lining, you're not giving him enough.

I guarantee that there isn't one person on this board that wants to sign Cam to a 5 year extension right now...Hell, I bet you'd be hard pressed to find one single person that wants to give him two more years unconditionally but, I am one of many who want to see one more year because there are way too many reasons that were sitting at 0-12, than just Cam Cameron.

 

Now we are going to give excuses to Cam because we were playing a rookie quarterback? Guess what, Trent Edwards is a rookie too, a much younger rookie than Beck and he has progressed much faster as of now, AND HE'S A 3RD ROUND PICK.

I'm not saying I don't like Beck, I think he will be good and much better than Edwards, but I am saying you can win with rookie QB's. I don't think Beck is getting the right coaching though.

 

I never said that. Again, you don't just throw a player on the field because he's young and you don't just bench a guy because he's old, there's gotta be more reason than that. It's a subtle point that I'm beginning to think I'm not going to be able to get across to you. And that can be blamed squarely on my poor ability to express myself properly.

 

I don't think Trent Edwards is the reason for the Bill's success. First off, the Bills offense has been playing together than Miami. Edwards has played mediocre with the Bills, a whooping 1 TD and 5 INTs in 6 games. Granted, he is playing more of a game manager role, but look at the Bills offense. Their offensive line could somewhat be compared to ours, but their line is playing much better than ours IMO.

T Jason Peters. Started all last year, started all 12 games thus far.
G Derrick Dockery. New this year, started all 12 games thus far.
C Melvin Fowler. Started all last year, started all 12 games thus far.
G Brad Butler. 2nd year player, started all 12 games thus far.
T Langston Walker. New this year, started all 12 games thus far.

They have continuity and everything, plus with Peters manning the LT, I would have to say that helps a lot. Right now, Lee Evans is a much more polished WR than Ted Ginn Jr. I would take Buffalo's WR corp over ours at the moment. As for RBs... Jesse Chatman and Marshawn Lynch are both battling ankle sprains. Fred Jackson vs. Samkon Gado? Right now Jackson has the edge.

Say what you wish, but the fact remains that Edwards was just thrown in there and he struggled at first. He has 6 games under his belt (3 more than Beck) and you can't compare them quite yet until Beck has had just as much experience as Edwards. Besides, look at the field conditions Beck has played on lately, his first learning experience was against the Jets being he spent more time handing the ball of versus Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

 

abNormal stated earlier,"to compare Cam to other coaches with terrible first seasons that turned it around is a stretch at this point." Wouldn't the reverse also be just as true? To compare Cam to coaches that didn't or weren't given the opporunity to would be just as great a stretch! All we can do is wait and see if Wayne H. trusts Cam and Randy's plan enough to allow them to complete their planned rebuild.
Remember, Cam stated when he was first hired:"I want to be here one year longer than Don Shula!" So, why would he want to keep the team that he inherited from his predecessors, that was such a mess? Let him build a new team the right way, with new, young players through the draft and FA. Build for long-term success, not band-aids for a couple of wins!

 

exatcly. at least lose by 3 again ill say hey we somewhat are consistent but we aren't nor are we improving one bit. we get worse by the week.

 

All those points are true BUT all of their teams showed improvement during their abysmal seasons. The Phins have yet to do that. If anything they have regressed since 6th game.

IMHO Cam still has chance to instill confidence in the fan base with the remaing 4 games. He doesn't need to beat the Pats but they need to score more than 20pts in every game and maybe beat the Bungles.

 

No, not all those teams showed improvement.

The single game the Jimmy Johnson lead Cowboys won was mid-season, Bill Parcells Giants stint had him .500 at the end of the first month, etc. and so on.

 

Amen!!

 

you're not failing to get your point across....I get what you are saying but just disagree. I am simplifying things in my responses, just because it makes making my point easier.

I do disagree with you that Cam is coaching these games with a higher priority on next year than on winning the current game...I think he's just failing despite trying.

But if I did agree with you.....the only way that would change my perception of him is that I would think he needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY rather than only at the end of a winless season.

Bottom line for me with this thread is that Cam hasn't done anything to earn confidence from my perspective as a highly intereseted outsider, which is why I can't argue with JT when he shows a lack of confidence from his perspective as an insider.

 

many coaches have 'built a team the right way'......and NONE of them lost every game in a season with a non-expansion team. The fact that he is on the verge of 'accomplishing' this unheard of feat, should tell you something.

 

Yo KB. How's it going, man? Good to see you again.
I liked your post, but had a couple of questions;
How do you know that the line improved because Cam changed some of the blocking schemes? Houk is one of the best coaches in the game, and was finally given some decent talent up there.
How do you know that Allen improved because Cam suggested more film study?
I believe that Ronnie Brown got better for two reasons: He changed his style more to take advantage of his speed and size by not dancing behind the line so much and running N-S. Also the improvements on the line. Is Cam really so bad at evaluating talent that he didn't realize what he had in RB until so late?
I just don't see how you can correlate Jason Allen and Crowder finally starting to play well with Cams coaching.
I see this team as worse, not better. At the end of the year, Cam and his "plan" should be evaluated as to whether or not this team is headed in the right direction. Up to this point, I think that we're actually worse, and Cam is kinda lost.

 

I think Cameron's plans were ruined by injuries and bad breaks all season. I'm not going to place all the blame on a rookie coach for the mistakes he has made in his first season as head coach. He's allowed to grow too, right?. I like his demeanor and his attitude and I saw Ronnie on his way to the probowl because Cam lit a fire under his butt. I like the way that he handled expectations for his rookies by constantly downplaying their roles.I like the way that he's maintained his composure throughout this entire season. That's gotta be tough to do. To me, it says he's a confident man and that he has a plan. I'm willing to see that plan play out one more year before I'm ready to take the damn thing apart again.

Sue me.

 

Can't be sued if you're right. And...well..you are.

 

You have anything worth sueing for?

I agree with you, but this Mularkey thing has me rethinking it somewhat.

 

One issue guys, Cam is NOT a rookie head coach! This is his first head coaching job at the NFL level but he was a very unsuccesful head coach at the college level.

Cam's issues with game management and failure to focus on the entire team are problems that he should have corrected during his time in college and should have been completely prepared to step into this role at the NFL level.

I'm not begrudging him a few mistakes, every coach makes them, but he has failed to correct any of them.

 

ROFLMMFAO.....






still ROFLMMFAO

 

I bet none of them also inherited team that was so split down the middle between youth and age. I would also bet none of them inherited a team that had 2-57 in draft picks on the team from a few years prior. I bet none of them inherited a DC that was given complete control of the defensive system and was already assistant head coach. I bet none of them, on top of everything else mentioned, had to deal with a plague's worth of injuries. Lastly, I would bet, that with all of that stuff, none of them came into a FO that is so in flux.

Tell you what Burg, you find the example that meets all that criteria, then we'll agree with you. If not though, then you really shouldn't be comparing it. Deal?

 

How much more talent does Hudson have up front than his previous two years? Three of the five starters from last year's line are still starting. He added a rookie and a journeyman vet. That's not stoking the line up with major talent there. Hudson Houck is a great offensive line coach, but to give him sole credit for the improvement is foolish and incorrect. Cam Cameron came in and made some changes in the blocking schemes that Hudson agreed with, and Cam also motivated Rex Hadnot and LJ Shelton to get themselves into proper shape.

With Jason Allen, I give Cam a lot of credit for not giving in to the temptation to play him when it was obvious in practices that he wasn't ready. I know for a fact that the defensive coaching staff was very close to giving up on Jason Allen this season. Mel Phillips wanted to try him at cornerback, and that didn't work out too well. After moving him to safety, they openly wondered if he would ever get it mentally. Around week 8 or so, Cam Cameron had a one-on-one with Jason Allen and basically issued a challenge to him. He urged to Jason that he must get better mentally, and to do that, he has to put in more time in the film room and with his studying of the defense. It was basically the same challenge he issued to Travis Daniels. The message was to get with the program and realize your potential or lose your spot on the team. Within two weeks of that, Jason Allen's outlook completely turned around in Miami. He started putting in more time in the film room and started doing things in practice that the coaches hadn't seen him do previously. When that clicked, that's when Cam had the confidence in him to put him in as a starter.

I also don't see this team as worse right now. The defense is better right now, with the injuries, than it was at the start of the year. The offense has gone in reverse, but who wouldn't anticipate that with four rookies starting, one of which is the quarterback?

 

Good post keith, also not to mention the offense is missing Brown and Chapman is hobbled by injuries.

 

Sorry but I don't have the time or inclanation to look into the state of every team during a every coaching change to find one that meets your criteria.

So what you are saying is that no coach has EVER walked into a worse situation than the one Cam walked into in Miami?? Is that what you're trying to say? Because if he goes winless.....it is a FACT that no team will have ever produced worse results.

While many of you seem to insinuate that I am blaming Cam for everything.....I'm not. But he is the head coach of an NFL team, and should be held to some standard, regardless of the situation....for me that standard is one stinking win. and obviously I'm not alone, as he apparently hasn't reached a standard that would earn JT's confidence either.