A: I don't say its a fact, even though as L2G says, Parcells blew him off, he was not happy. B: Brandon London went through the Giants mini camp, he was doing football workouts, not doing ballet.
You really think Parcells is gona say to the press that he refused to acknowledge Taylor and that it was a big deal... Hogwash
Timing is key, both sides tried to minimize the situation when the Phins failed to deal Taylor away at the draft. Before that Parcells just didn't speak about it. We can look at Parcells book or his past actions/words to know how he feels about players who don't have football as their number one priority, and Taylor's actions and own words show that football was not a priority for him.
Well it is what it is really. I understand what people do, they take past experiences and draw some conclusion, having said that until confirmed otherwise all we have is what they have told the media which is it was not a big deal, both decided to go their own ways. I can just as easily say bp is not known for keeping his unhappiness under wraps therefore, he would have said something had it bothered him. But in the end until confirmed by either as in them saying what has been said about the situation was a charade, it is still just speculation by both parties. Now do I think bp happy was with jt, probably, but in the end its still unconfirmed.
Criticism based on fact sure. Criticism based on speculation NO. Fact- Was he wrong? He makes a light hearted comment and you vilify him. If you think that comment was detrimental to the team u need to lighten up. JT had a bad relationship with THE worse coach in dolphins history and argueably the worse HC ever in NFL history save for the Detroit Lions HC. Was he wrong? Like you have never questioned your incompetent boss and had a shouting match with him or her. Brother please. If anyone was detrimental to the team it was Cam for being so incompetent at his job. FACT- Jason Taylor quotes: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3305195 May 20, 2008 http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3383449 May 6, 2008 In fact JT was at the Dolphins facility days before training camp packing his locker to get ready for camp when he got the call that he was being traded.
So you wouldn't take him back if he would sign a cheap contract to be a situational pass rusher? When you have a situational pass rusher for cheap, injuries are not a major concern. We all know how Parcells likes to collect linebackers and if JT were to go down I'm sure we'll have someone who can step in. Regardless if we sign JT or not I believe they still draft a pass rushing linebacker because after all JT would just be a situational guy and Porter isn't getting any younger. FYI you can't have a team full of young players. They're will always be 30+ guys on a football team. Some who will be very valuable.
That might be about as condescending of a statement as I have seen mate. Bloody hell we were reinventing the wheel and JT talked himself into believing he was in the loop. No wonder BP sent him packing. Taylor put himself above the 1-15 team and the staff. Glad you put that one out there.......
The critism he is receiving is unnecessary considering how much he gave the Dolphins while he here. Correct me if I'm wrong but the first time he mentioned retirement as a serious possibility was after his DPOY season. He then decided to come back not even a week after the season was over. Not exactly what I would call leaving teammates in limbo. I could care less what he said about Trent and Beck because he was right and was likely saying to the media what the locker room was talking about and Cam was a terrible coach and pushover most of the players didn't like him. Save me the he is the coach you show him respect no matter what routine, he was terrible and the players needed to say something. The DWTS schtick bothered me.
It isn't speculation, look at his history and look at the attributes that Parcells looks for in a player. Parcells has a question that he asks all players during interviews, he asks them to rank the 3 most important things in their life and if football isn't at the top then he isn't a Parcells player. Take a look at all of the pressers from the time Parcells was brought in until now, they (Parcells, Ireland and Sparano) all talk about how they want players who are dedicated, how they want players who bust their asses and how they want players who want to be a part of the Miami Dolphins, that doesn't describe Jason Taylor at all last year, infact quite the opposite. You don't see a problem with adding doubt and tension to the situation? Jason knew that the Dolphins were trying hard to bring Green in as the QB and that there were questions swirling about his health, instead of giving him a vote of confidence, Taylor just added to the drama. Is that what a leader does? And it's not fair in a conversation to use hindsight as a rule, at the time Green was going to be our starter for the year, his injury afterwards has nothing to do with Jason's comments at the time. The fact that you completely overlook the fact that we suffered several key injuries last year and had an aging defense with players playing out of position, says alot about your argument. Cam was in over his head, but last season was a disaster all the way around and it isn't all his fault. Sparano could have easily suffered from the same fate this year if he had to deal with losing Ronnie, his starting QB, his defensive leader, etc, etc, etc. It's not as black and white as you make it sound. And no I have never yelled at my bosses, I give respect where its due and when I had a problem I sat them down behind closed doors like a professional. Jason made it very clear to the staff that he wasn't going to make himself available for any of the offseason or preseason activities, reread again Sparano's presser. Either Taylor informed them that he wouldn't be there or else Sparano and Co. are a bunch of liars that made it up. Which one is it IYO? The fact that Jason would agree to something non-football related that would interfere with his onfield performance and preparation shows that he wasn't committed to the Miami Dolphins, he was more concerned with self-promotion. If you decided that you were going to miss months of work because something else came along, how do you think your bosses would feel? Do you think you would still have a job when you decided to go back?
ALL FALSE!!! FACT- http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/06/parcells-finall.html JT has been to 11 previous minicamps with 5 different HCs of which he attends 50% of those practises and he can't miss 1?!?!?! What do u learn in shorts and tshirts?
So it's okay to overlook a player's actions if he puts up numbers? Chad Johnson and TO have put up alot of numbers and contributed to alot of wins, do they get a pass too? I'm not equating Taylor with them, just curious as to what's okay and what isn't in your mind. It's been going on for a while, he's been hinting at retirement and a hollywood career for a while now, not exactly what a potential FA wants to hear when they are trying to decide on which long term contract to accept. Again, you can't use hindsight to brush off the impact his comments had at the time. When you have a young QB in there after not being properly prepared by the coaching staff, a leader doesn't toss the kid under the bus. When you have a QB coming in and he's trying to prepare himself for the season, a leader doesn't question whether or not the guy will make it through the season, a leader gives the guy his support. As far as Cam, read my above post, last year was not Cam's fault alone. We had alot of injuries and players playing out of position, Sparano could have suffered the same fate had Ronnie, Penny, etc gone down this year. Would that mean that Sparano was also an utter failure or would circumstances be taken into account? And like Cam or hate him, under no circumstances should a player act unprofessionally towards a coach. If they have a problem and they fancy themselves a leader, take it behind closed doors like a man instead of acting out and making things worse.
How does that link prove it is all false? The way I read it BP wanted him back but JT didn't want to be back. The fact is that he didn't want to play for Miami last season, so why should we want him back now? Especially when he has injury concerns and wasn't productive at all last year.
And you completely overlook the date at the bottom of that story. The Dolphins tried hard to trade Jason at draft time and when they couldn't both sides downplayed the rift when it looked like they were stuck with each other, something that isn't uncommon when a player demands a trade and the deals fall through. Trade talks didn't heat up again until July when the Skins suffered a key injury. btw that quote that you highlighted directly contradicts what Taylor himself said in an interview. Dude, read Sparano's presser before you bring this point up again, it's pointless to discuss it further until you do. Well, how about a brand new defense? You don't just learn those overnight, walk-throughs are very important. If you feel differently, by all means contact Parcells and let him know that he's doing this football thing all wrong.
JT back in Miami would be awkward and wrong at the same time...For the player and the team... I really would never see it mates.... I think what I'm looking to say it is a "natural progression" No serious intentions to snuff this thread......
I don't see it as adding tension. Did I think it was funny? Yes. I could show you half the people on the entire message board who said that Trent Green would suffer another concussion and that getting Trent Green was a bad move. If you couldn't see that, you lacked foresight. JT had foresight...I wish Mueller had half as much foresight! Remind me again how any of that is JT's fault. Yes it is all of Cam and Muellers fault. Blame stops with them. It goes all the way to the top. Personnel AND injury prevention. I call that miscommunication. Everything else besides that one statement from Sparano indicates that JT was going to show. JT ACTIONS in coming back to the facility and preparing SHOWS he was coming back for camp. I go on holidays and trips oveseas every year. I have the right to. I don't care what my bosses think. In fact I am going to Africa for 2 weeks in April. Screw them! hahaha
It shows that the rift and the effect on the team was overblown. I don't think JT will be back. If he is then I would welcome it but I think he would be given a different role due to his age. Again, I seriously doubt he'll come back. What I don't like are fans who condemn his character.
Eh, i'm pretty sure JT would have been healthy after going through a Fins training camp and in-season workouts.
That, my friend is called speculation. The quote I gave was factual evidence. IMO he would have attended training camp and he would have learned it all then.
That's when you put in most of the scheme. You teach it in film and meetings, then go out on the field and do it. It's a great time to focus on timing and all the mental aspects of the scheme without having contact as a distractor.
It has nothing to do with foresight, go back and reread my posts from that time period and you will see that I was as critical of bringing Trent in as anyone. I pointed to the fact that once a player suffers one concussion that they are more susceptible to sustaining another and more severe head injury. But again, I'm not claiming to be a leader of the Miami Dolphins, my opinion means nothing to the players, coaches and media. Taylor on the otherhand was claiming to be a leader, his words carried weight because of his tenure, instead of being careful and supportive of a teammate he added more fuel, speculation and uncertainty to the situation. Another quote from Taylor to ESPN about the Parcells snub is most intriguing... So he's admitting that he was snubbed and didn't take kindly to it, how is that overblown? I never once claimed that it was. So they were responsible for Ronnie and Zach getting injured? Is Parcells responsible for Thomas, Smiley, Satele and Camarillo getting injured? Their absense and limited effectiveness were a big part of the reason we lost games and the running game fizzled, should Parcells, Ireland and Sparano get the axe for that? It's the same thing by your definition. How is that miscommunication? There would have to be an awfully big failure in order for that to be miscommunicated. Taylor himself told ESPN that he didn't have to be there because they weren't reinventing the wheel. Taylor never participated in camp or preparation, I've searched the net and can't find any source that reports that. He was traded before camp even started, so I'm not exactly sure what you're refering to. That line that you bolded, along with the link provided, said he "planned" on being there, not that he was there. If you have vacation time coming, you are entitled to use it. If you don't, I would make sure to take the job section of your local newspaper with you.
It's not speculation of any kind and I've posted examples of Taylor's comments about the snub, you just choose to ignore them. This conversation is going in circles and it makes no sense to continue if you won't accept Jason's own words as fact. I can also pull quotes from Parcells right after taking the job saying that he wasn't going trade Jason Taylor, the only way that Jason wasn't going to play for Miami was if he retired. Things change, situations change. Parcells kept his mouth shut and only spoke when it looked like they were stuck with each other. Why wouldn't he have spoken up long before that? Why did Taylor acknowledge and comment on the snub more than once if it never happened? You're opinion and nothing more. You can never have too much practice and Taylor's overconfidence did him no good in Washington. Any player that takes practicing lightly is going to be in Parcells doghouse or any coach's doghouse for that matter.
JT needed to voice his opinion as a leader. He cares about winning. It would not be good from a leadership point of view if he disagreed about personnel and kept his mouth shut. He thought that getting Green would be detrimental to the teams success and he was right. That, to me is leadership. He possess good vision and speaks out about it. Is there a link to that. It was a little vague to me. I need to read that comment in context to the whole article. I know, just messing with ya NO because, Sparano went 11-5 with minimal injuries. Cam...well, was crap. Taylor was intending to participate in training camp. The re-inventing wheel statement was regarding mincamp. The proof that he was attending training camp is here during his trade press conference in Washington: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/07/jason_taylor_press_conference.html
So undermining the moves of the front office is okay because he felt it was a bad move? That opens the door for any player to criticize his team's FO and not be held responsible for it. Here's the link, I believe the interview itself was a part of an ESPN television interview. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2008/07/16/a1c_elmore_0717.html And here is this http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/...taylor.html?cxntfid=blogs_inside_the_dolphins Kind of hard to dismiss it when he comes right out and admits it. And these earlier comments completely contradict his later statements of not seeing Parcells. So either Jason is lying or else both sides decided to downplay the rift when it looked like they were stuck with each other. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that they agreed to a truce of sorts, are you? Coaches don't control when injuries happen, if they did no player would ever get injured. Unfortunately injuries are a part of the game and we suffered more than our share last year. To think that our record last year was solely on the shoulders of Cam, who admittedly was in over his head, is silly and short sighted. Like I said, he told the team that he wasn't going to show in order to force their hand (supported by Sparano's presser), and then as TC approached and it looked as though his only option was to either play in Miami or walk away from his large contact they agreed to downplay the situation. But he never participated in anything and missed out on all of that preparation with his fellow teammates. 2 pages of this just to come back to where we were in the beginning, Taylor demanded the trade, he missed mandatory workouts and practices, he was snubbed by Parcells and admitted as much, he threatened to miss camp, they tried to trade him and noone was biting, they agreed to downplay the rift and he was traded shortly thereafter. Taylor handled this situation very poorly and for people to act as though that I (or anybody else) am trying to "condemn his character" is absolutely silly. He demanded the trade, he was the one who kept throwing fuel on the Parcells rift fire, he's the one that threatened to stay away from all camps, workouts and practices, he's the one that should be criticized, not the people pointing it out. Are we done now?
Come on home JT! I would love for him to be back. He would be a great situational pass rusher. I have no hard feelings towards him at all. It makes me feel good about my favorite team that a player of his ilk wants to finish his career in aqua and orange!
I agree Kev. All these pages and posts about a man some seem to really hate puzzles me. I love my Dolphins more than any one player and if I had heard JT say anything derogatory against the team, I would have turned on him to. But, I never heard anything out of his mouth about the Dolphins, the coaches or the fo. I still like JT and appreciate his hard playing for us all those years. I just think it's time to let all this go, let the man live his life and for us to root the Dolphins on to more W's. I have no idea if he'd want to come back or if he's wanted back. I really don't care at this point. IF, he should, I would welcome him. IF he doesn't, then I'll accept that as his or the fo's choice. Hating on anyone bothers me alot. But this man is a football player that we watched play for us for years, not a personal friend. We'll never know what went on with him and the team, so, why don't we just go on? I will always like and respect him and Zach, because they helped and played hard for my beloved Dolphins.
I really have no problem saying jt didn't want to be here, nor that he didn't help the situation. I do have a problem with a couple of things. 1) assuming you know all that went on 2) trying to use this incident to negate the years of service given by jt.
