My opinion on Ted Ginn

We seem to have generated a pretty good bit of offense this year with a QB who didn't even know his WRs. we have much more pressing needs than picking up another WR - specifically, interior OL and DL.

 

Okay so is this hate on Ted Ginn week or we love Ted Ginn week? I can never keep up with you people on this subject.

 

I'm sorry but I can say with 100% certainty that the DB tripped him up. Too bad I don't have it on my TIVO anymore or I'd take a screenshot.

In any event, Cam is ok but Ginn is our best WR. We lost cam for the year, Bessie stepped right into his shoes and him and Ginn carried us through what? The AFC East.

Lose Ginn, trot Cam and Bess out there, and I think we may be in trouble.

 

i think that we should grab a WR, but we dont need to draft one in round 1. we have bigger needs right now. should we get a 4th WR, that'd be awsome, he and ginn can be the flankers with bess and gcam in close in 4WR sets. right now, we need to worry more about getting some defensive help. Our defense was good this year, but not great. we need depth, and we need a few really special guys. our team had a lot of 'pretty good' players this year. so it's hard to single out one guy here or there we want to replace. there was noone who was especially terrible on defense. but we could certainly use more efficient linebackers, and a ballhawk DB.

edit: especially because ginn will become more of a factor in the future whenever we switch to henne. we won't just cut ginn. and we wouldn't get much in a trade for him right now most likely. it stinks but we need to let him develop a few more years, and hopefully whenever it becomes the henne show, he'll be fully developed and closer to an elite stretch the field receiver. right now, henne could come in and huck those bombs, and ginn would catch some yes, but if we give both he and henne time, when they finally pair up.. mmmmmm.. i'm salivating already

 

Kenny Britt, come on down!!!!!

 

I think our receiving core is fine. It's full of Parcells guys. Guys who work hard, try to improve on every down, and do whatever they can to win. Wilford refused to be coached, and thus he was kept off the field. Ginn, however, has done everything in his power to be a better WR for this team. He's made real strides and is developing well. I would absolutely hate to see him on another team in a few years.

Would I be against some top tier talent? No. But I don't see Parcells putting any draft picks or money towards top flight WRs. It's just not his favorite position.

 

This whole Ginn argument has got to stop.

1. He was tripped.
2. He was all the way back down the field, and he did get dropped by a Ravens defender when he came flying in to try to make a play.
3. He has progressed nicely over two years. What did he have, 800 yards this year? Not bad, considering that Pennington doesn't go long much.
4. If you put Ginn in the slot, or just had him running the same sort of routes as Cam and Bess, he'd have had more catches too...that is, if Cam and Bess could have run the deep routes to pull the safeties back...

Ginn is better than both Cam and Bess, IMO. He has far more upside. I love both Cam and Bess, but, I wouldn't get rid of Ginn over either one of those guys.

 

If we get another stellar WR, you get rid of Cam or Bess, not Ginn. That's all I'm saying.

 

Our Wrs next year: Ginn, TJ Houshmazilly, Davone Bess, Greg Camarillo, ____________ .

 

Housh would be a good add. .

 

Not to discredit your theory, I just don't see this team spending money on a WR in his 30s, at least not in the amount that TJ is going to be asking for. I think as fans we sometimes get caught up in sexy titles like #1 WR and forget that the guys we have are on this team for a reason. Each guy in our passing attack has a job. And the good thing is that each guy (Ginn, London, Bess, Camarillo, Fasano, Martin and even the Running Backs) knows their job and performs. Chad Pennington has played with the likes of Lavereaneus Coles, Jerricho Cotchery, Santana Moss and Wayne Chrebet and this year threw for his career high in yards. I think we could use a big body WR, someone like Limas Sweed or hell Ernest Wilford, but it has to be someone who can actually play and be coached. I don't necessarily think we need to spend 7, 8 even 10 million dollars a year on a "Top Flight" WR when we have guys who are getting the job done with effort and intelligence.

Look at the Patriots prior to 2007 and look at their WR corp. They didn't have a true "#1 WR." And anyone they did have as soon as they were traded or let go became no better than a #2 on another team. Or take the Eagles for example. They have been to 5 of the past 8 NFC Championships with guys like Hank Baskett, Greg Lewis, Todd Pinkston etc. I know that they didn't get to the Super Bowl till they brought in Terell Owens but I would still say their improvements on defense had more to do with that Super Bowl run than anything.

So to sum up I"m not trying to shoot down your theory of TJ in Miami. And I guess as a fan it would be nice to have that big name WR to cheer for. But also I've found it's quite enjoyable to trot relative unknowns like Bess, Camarillo and London out there and let them make plays. True workman-like fashion. But it comes down to I don't know any more about it than you do. It's all speculation, but judging on past tendencies by Parcells I just don't see us sinking a lot of money into the WR position through FA or the Draft.

 

Ginn is what he is, a #3 receiver who could eventually elevate to being a #2. His stats this year were better than his 2007 stats, but they were elevated because one of game (7 catch, 175 yard game against Buffalo). He didn't have another great game aside from that, one game made his statistics, so you can't look at statistics. This guy was also bashed by Dolphin legend Dan Marino for saying he ran the worst routes he ever saw.

I didn't like Ginn coming out, a lot of Dolphins fans didn't like him either, he is going to be a slot receiver type receiver, he'll never be a #1. A #2 is his ceiling.

 

This is also a guy who was praised by some saying he was the one of the hardest working football players they ever saw. So i fail to see how you can call a guy who works extremely hard and was known to be really raw at the time of draft, has electric speed and play making ability, has shown he has good hands, a #2 WR at best. he has the skill set and work ethic to be a #1 without a doubt. He just has to get stronger, continue to get much better running routes, and want it on the field. this guys not as far away from a #1 as people want to believe.

how are you going to take one game and say that was his only game and it made his stats? he still HAD that game. it wasnt another WR that compiled those stats that game for him. it was him, so yes you can look at stats when talking about him.

 

Not many wide receivers have the ability to dominate a game like he did against the Bills. What he did was what a #1 wide receiver does. he clearly showed that he has that ability, now he just has to be more consistent. Also, just because he didn't have 100 yards in any other games doesn;t mean that he didn't have any other really good games. I believe the last game of the season against the Jets went pretty well for him.

 

He had that game. He was actually thrown to a bunch that game. It's amazing that when Ginn gets the ball, he's able to make plays...

Quit hating on the guy. He's gotten better both of his first two years. When he stops producing and getting better, then come talk about how he'll never be more than a #2.

Frankly, who cares if Marino said that Ginn ran the worst routes he ever saw? Everyone KNEW that he ran bad routes coming out of college. You can work on your route running, and get better.

 

I don't see how TJ would break the mold we have now? He is a perfect fit at WR for us. He has kept his mouth shut and done his job in Cincy. He is a great possession WR. And you can't tell me that you would rather start a rehabbed Camarillo over a fully healthy TJ Houshmazilly. He is worth the money. Probably the last time Miami will ever have a chance at a FA WR that fits their need. I think Ireland gets him. We can afford it, and it fills an immediate need without using a draft pick. Only way I see it not happening, is if he gets tagged.

EDIT: Whos gonna want to defend our spread? Ted, TJ, Cam, Bess, and Ronnie. Thats some great route runners for an accurate QB who can read defenses.

 

you know what. eff this, im starting a tj houshmazilly thread.

 

i would think 800 yards receiving is #2 receiver stats on most teams. esspecially considering his greatest asset is taken away by his Qb.

 

So ... the Jets only had 2 #3's on their team? No wonder they missed the playoffs despite some good players on that team

Ginn right now is a #2 and ascending. That's all i have to say about that.

 

I am a Ted Ginn supporter so dont bash me too hard. I did like what we saw of Ginn this season: Improvement. Ginn showed me he can make a game changing play and somewhat consistency. After last season, I felt if Ginn were to have a season of around 60+ catches, that would be a good improvement of a season in his development. He had 56 which I find not so bad when an offense that Miami plays in seems so "atypical" as Chad Pennington would say.

Think about it, we utilize so many of our offensive players. We use all 3 of our runningbacks out of the backfield, 4 different wide recievers, and 3 different tight ends. So when that many different players are getting looks on a consistent basis, it is harder to put up bigger numbers.

My only knack on Ginn and I hear this from others often, is his lack of Touchdowns. I did like his ability to make a big play this year such as the reverses and some of his deep catch adjustments that were underthrown. Ginn finished with 4 td's I think, but as I look around at some of the other WR on the team, they are also low in that category. We had runningbacks that had a good amount of TD also. So it makes you wonder, is his lack of TD due to our offense or is it a knack on our recieving corps? We will all differ in our views, but I did like Ginn's improvement this season.

 

He is anything but a Slot Wr, and sometimes it takes time for a Wr to adapt and or develop in the NFL.

He is already well on his way to being a #2 and his stats are what they are. You cannot take one game and toss it out the window.

Ginn has improved and thems the facts. We'll see if he can take that 3rd year step to become a solid Wr.

 

TEDDY GINN:

he is a 2nd year WR, still learning and developing... and improving to note!!!

he will be on the field for his big play ability, and will actually be effected if we do get a #1 type WR... but not by being benched, by allowing him more space and less safeties rolling over to help out. Teddy Ginn is working hard on learning how to seperate better with route running, and needs to improve routes all over the field.

now getting that #1 WR is definitely not our top priority, and shouldn't be. where i think we struggle more is in the red zone with our WR's... where i wouldn't mind take a Ramses Barden in later rounds in the draft.

Bess... is a slot WR, and will be used a lot, very talented... but a different style WR than Ginn... they not battling it out at all.

and kid... trust me.... study and do your school work, or you'll end up like a NFL junkie loser like me, struggling to payeth thy bills....

 

I am disappointed with Ginn's progress so far but encouraged because he has shown brief glimpses of his potential. I think his speed is a necessity to stretch the field but IMO he will never be a #1.

As far as getting a #1? We have a lot more pressing needs. The WR corps came a long way through the season. I don't see the Trifecta trading for Boldin and am fairly certain they will not pursuit TJ Housh because they won't break the bank on one guy. The bigger concern IMO is the front 7, FS, OL and depth.

 

Ah yes, I forgot. I grew up not far from you in Brighton. The best advice can be found in the entry above. Study now, go to Ann Arbor for 4 years or you'll end up spending your life hanging out in forums discussing the Dolphins with the likes of us.

 

you were disapointed in his progress? he nearly doubled his yardage output from last year. Were you expecting 1000 yards?

 

agree with this comment i do.... improvements is what i look for, and he definitely has... a lot of work to still do though... its only his 2nd year homies!!!

 

He did double his yardage output and his route running got better, but he had dropped balls at key moments, running out of bounds when they are trying kill the clock, disappeared from KO duties so yes, I am disappointed.

 

i can sort understand someone saying maybe they don't believe he will become a great receiver, but to deny the great strides he has made is unwarranted in my opinion. I don't know what more you were looking for in terms of IMPROVEMENT.

 

He ran out of bounds ONCE when they were running out the clock. He only had 6 drops in 17 games, and I can't remember him having drops that really killed us in any games.

You are picking out a few select negative moments from the year. What about his unbelievable catch in double coverage against the Seahawks? What about his two fantastic catches to help beat the Jets? What about having one of the best receiving performances of the year against the Bills? He did a lot more good than bad this year. Your disappointment seems to be tied up in a few mistakes that you just won't let go.

 

Start with consistency.

 

you were disapointed in his improvement. What were you expecting out of him statistically coming into this year?1000 yards? I want to know, because most of the things you are mentioning has very little to do with his improvement from last year to this year and more to do with just generally him as a player.

 

Seems to me that you are hyping a few instances where he showed his potential just as I am not letting go of a few mistakes.

Bottom line is that he was consistently outperformed by 2 other WR's who were not drafted in the #9 slot. I have heard countless excuses about him from his supporters ranging from Pennington's weak arm to it takes 3 years to develop. He is not worth the value of his draft position. The Phins could have gotten more value elsewhere.

Of course I hope he pulls it together and has an awesome year next season. I have been waiting for him to do just that. But if he doesn't pick up his game and play consistently solid football, I am curious to see what fans who insist he needs 3 years to develop feel.

 

Not quite sure what you are trying to point out. I don't expect anything in terms of stats. I expect improvement in all facets of the game. There was improvement in his route running but it can get better. Focus can improve. Decision making is questionable. He was replaced by Cobbs on KO's.

It's easy to say he doubled his yardage but, he had a one huge game against Buffalo. When Cam went down Bess stepped up. To measure improvement based solely on stats is ineffective.

 

nothing is wrong with him being replaced on KO by Cobbs.... also gives him less to worry about and more opportunities to focus and concentrate on developing at WR...

after his second year he obviously has improved, and obviously needs more improvement in all areas. he needs to seperate a lot better with his route running, he needs to be able to work all areas of the field, he needs to also make all catches that are catchable (many many top WR's in the league need to work on this... yes Focus!!!)

he has this offseason, training camp, and pre-season to work on all this and head into his 3rd season as a Miami Dolphin WR!!!

 

Depends on how you look at it Bane. Sure he can focus more on developing other aspects of his game but one of the reasons he was drafted was his big play ability as a returner.

Don't get me wrong. I wish him nothing but success. His improvement obviously makes the Dolphins a better team. But my position is and has been since day 1 that he was not worth the #9 pick, it was a mistake to take him thereand I am disappointed that we may very well have wasted another draft pick. Fortunately, it is one from a past regime.

 

They wouldn't have performed so well without Ginn in there. Trust me, those Denver DB's said "who the hell is Greg Camarillo" for a reason. Their coaches and them were watching film of Ginn.

Buffalo did not ask, "Ted Ginn who?" because everyone knows about him already. If Greg C and Davone Bess, who are awesome at what they do, were so good, they would be in there and not Ginn. But Ginn started each and every game. The other two are great, but interchangeable. Did anyone even notice when we lost Greg Camarillo? I know I didn't.

 

i agree with that... definitely not a #9 pick, especially for return specialist (since they get those chances a very limited amount per game). i was never in such awe when he was drafted. but that was also Cam Cameron... Parcells and company just trying to develop him and move on.

i know you wish the best for him, just gotta wipe off that #9 first rounder tag on him, and watch him develop to his own abilities and help the phins the ways he can... in time!!!

 

i totally did, i was pissed whe we lost Camarillo. Thank god Bess is a solid route runner and filled in nicely.

with London developing too... its gonna be another fun and interesting battle at the WR spor for '09!!! especially with possible additions coming

 

I'll say it again Ted Ginn had a very good second year, he racked up a pretty good year by doing what people said he couldnt by becoming more of a posession reciever. His Qb disallows him to use his greatest attribute his speed.

But yet he made some very nice catches in traffic and adjusted to a couple of poorly underthrown ball's.

He will only get better Penny is a blessing in disguise because when Henne takes over Ginn will be a HUGE threat all over the field.