1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Anderson Signing Long Term?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dors156, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,843
    10,283
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Columbia, South Carolina
    I'm not sure why its a bad thing that a Qb performs well with talent around him, why does this downgrade him? How many Qbs do great without great talent? Maybe 3 or 4 in the history of the league? I'm not saying trade a 1st and 3rd for him but he's better than any Qb on our roster, I would love to have him on this team. I wouldn't pay what it costs to get him but if we had him Id love to keep him. He's a good player, when was the last time Cleveland was a 10 win team and anything close to a relevant team in the NFL? Good for him if he's getting a mint.
     
  2. houtz

    houtz New Member

    273
    36
    0
    Dec 14, 2007
    Anderson isn't a one year wonder. I guarantee you they are resigning him with purpose to keep him around for the long term. If a team shells out to get him, that's fine with them. But if they don't you'll see him starting in Cleveland until Quinn proves he can outplay Anderson. And I don't see that happening for awhile.
     
  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Now that's overrated. Every good quarterback has a good offensive line. Top 4 quarterbacks: Favre, Brady, Peyton, Romo, all have good offensive lines.

    Of course his offensive line helped him, how else can a quarterback be successful without a good offensive line?

    A quarterback with a GREAT offensive line like Tavaris Jackson didn't play that well. And as good as Chicago's offensive line is, it's not going to change the fact that Rex Grossman sucks.

    As far as Jamal Lewis, Peyton has Addai, Brady has Maroney, Romo has Barber and Jones.

    I really don't get your logic, at all.

    Derek Anderson is going on the Romo career route. I see another breakthrough season next year. He's really that good.
     
  4. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    I've said countless times, the weapons he had on offense are overstated. He didn't have much to work with in terms of receiving option after Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow. Jurevicius is a below average #2 WR and after him they literally have nothing, as Jamal Lewis was their next leading receiver. Edwards and Winslow are a very nice 1, 2 punch, to throw to, but the talent on that offense isn't close to what the Patriots, Colts or Cowboys have to offer.

    Hell, Charlie Frye had the same exact weapons to throw to last season and he looked like absolute s___. The Browns go from scoring 14.9 points per game in '06 (30th in scoring offense), to scoring 25.1 points per game in '07 (8th). You're telling me that Derek Anderson had nothing to do with that?

    Braylon topped his previous career highs by 19 receptions, 405 receiving yards and 10 touchdowns (in as many games). Kellen Winslow topped his previous career highs by 231 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns. I guess Derek Anderson shouldn't get any of the credit:001_rolleyes:


    Meaningless considering how many throw aways he had, which naturally lowered his completion %.

    2007

    Cleo Lemon: 334 drop backs, 25 sacks (sacked once every 13.36 drop backs)

    Derek Anderson: 541 drop backs, 14 sacks ( sacked once every 38.64 drop backs)

    Taking a look at some of the quarterbacks with a higher completion %, here's how they're sack rates looked.

    Brodie Croyle got sacked once every 14.18 drop backs
    Tarvaris Jackson got sacked once every 16.47 drop backs
    Marc Bulger got sacked once overy 11.22 drop backs
    Jason Campbell got sacked once every 20.86 drop backs
    Philip Rivers got sacked once every 21.91 drop backs
    Kyle Boller got sacked once every 12.86 drop backs

    Derek Anderson was very likely one of the 3 hardest quarterbacks to sack this year, maybe even the hardest quarterback to sack. In large part because he knew when to throw the ball away.....

    The Ravens have a stellar record when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks.

    <sarcasm>

    ....and now they're trying to sign him (Anderson) to an extension, despite trading up and selecting Quinn. Go figure....


    There is a lot more to indicate that he's a good starting caliber QB than what you're making him out to be.....


    Despite what you may believe, the Texans actually have very good weapons on offense. As a whole, they probably have better receiving weapons than what the Browns have.

    #1 WR
    Browns: Braylon Edwards
    Texans: Andre Johnson

    #2 WR
    Browns: Joe Jurevicius
    Texans: Kevin Walter

    The difference between Braylon Edwards and Andre Johnson (if you believe Edwards to be superior to Johnson) is made up by the difference between Walter and Jurevicius.

    TE
    Browns: Kellen Winslow
    Texans: Owen Daniels
    Winslow is better at this point, but Daniels is pretty damn good himself.

    #3 WR
    Browns: They don't really have one, Tim Carter (8 receptions, 117 yards) was out produced by both running backs on the team.
    Texans: Andre Davis (one of the better #3 WR's in the NFL)

    So even though the Browns have the better running game, they don't have the overall receiving weapons the Texans do.

    Romo is probably one of the 3 most accurate passers in the NFL.

    Oh, and Romo was sacked once every 22.67 drop backs in '07. Anderson was sacked once every 38.64 drop backs.
     
  5. billsfaninpeace

    billsfaninpeace New Member

    181
    1
    0
    Dec 4, 2007
    This is all smoke. it is jsut posturing to try and get some value.

    You will see him stay as a RFA or sign a long term deal and get moved IMO.

    Time to start all the smoke screens like every year
     
  6. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

    4,932
    4,784
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Bingo. I think Cleveland is floating this out there hoping someone WAY overpays for him and makes it worth their while to trade him. I don't think they let him go for a trade that really represents his worth.
     
  7. billsfaninpeace

    billsfaninpeace New Member

    181
    1
    0
    Dec 4, 2007
    Agree so by saying we are signing him long term and such it is the same thing Peterson did to you all with Green, trying to inflate his value.

    They know every other GM knows they gave up ALOT for Quinn, and he will not sit in CLE for long before the pressure builds to play him
     
  8. phinphever

    phinphever Punk, Make My Day!!

    268
    96
    0
    Dec 20, 2007
    Ocala, FL
    All the talk about anderson is likely useless. The Browns are eager to re-sign him and are right now in contract negotiations.
     
  9. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Just curious, what do you think his "worth" is? Taking into consideration his age and talent level.....
     
  10. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    Let me toss a few stats out there for you people to consider

    It seems that alot of you are completely writing off John Beck because he didn't give you instant results. You had your heads filled with visions of Marino Jr and playoff runs and when that didn't happen, it's time to move on. You have to keep in mind that Beck...

    A) was a rookie
    B) was playing on a team whose morale was in the gutter
    C) was playing on an offense that was basically neutered with the loss of Ronnie Brown
    D) he didn't have any real weapons at WR or TE (Ginn was used improperly IMO)
    E) The playcalling while he was in there was bland
    F) he wasn't getting much protection from the OL

    You have to look at the little things that he did do well, he has nice accuracy and a quick release, he went through his progressions and he threw the ball to the right receivers, etc. Give the kid a chance to run this offense with some talent around him and lets see what he can do. He really didn't do that bad.

    Lets look at some stats

    5 games played
    117 att
    66 comp
    56.4 pct
    793 yds
    6.8 yds/att
    5 tds
    8 ints
    8 sacks
    63.1 QB rating
    2 fumbles

    Not very good, huh?

    They're also not John Becks stats, those stats belong to Anderson from the 2006 season.

    Once Cleveland added some talent to their offense to keep him upright and take the pressure off of him, he had a pretty decent season. He isn't worth a 1st and a 3rd in a trade because he only had that 1 good season, but that doesn't mean that he can't become a good QB. But if Cleveland fans had turned on him the way Miami fans are turning on Beck, he wouldn't even had had the chance to put up his stats this year. Infact, Anderson didn't even play in his first year, Cleveland fans could have written Anderson off as a bust because "this is his 2nd year and he sucks!!!". Instead the Cleveland FO was patient, they knew that they weren't a playoff team at that time, they knew they had to get better talent wise, they knew that rushing to judgment based on a handfull of games was stupid and they went out and brought in the talent to help their QB succeed.

    Now the one mistake that the Browns did make was that they did do something that alot of people here want Miami to do, they went out and made a trade for another QB and wasted a 1st rounder. They drafted Brady Quinn to be their QB of the future and look what happened, Anderson went out and had a fine season and Quinn sat on the bench. Now the Browns are in a bit of a pickle, do they let Anderson walk and take a chance on the unproven Quinn? Do they resign Anderson and tie up all that money in one position while Quinn gets splinters in his backside? What to do? And why? Because while they were patient with Anderson, they were impatient with the QB spot in general and wasted a 1st rounder.

    Now Miami fans want the Phins to follow in the Browns footsteps? Waste high and valuable draft picks without knowing what type of player Beck can be when he has more talent around him? Make a rush judgment based off of 5 games? No thanks! Beck is a talented QB, despite his age he still has a long career ahead of him. Miami isn't going to be a playoff team next year, so we have time to be patient with Beck to see what he is capable of.

    Give the kid a chance
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  11. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

    4,932
    4,784
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    When you were talking about a 2nd rounder earlier I think you start to get into the "it's worth thinking about" area. Now there is going to be some top notch talent around at our second pick (Rogers Cromartie, Gosder Cherilus, Fred Davis, etc.) so it might not be worth it to us depending upon how Ireland/Parcells feels about Beck. However I think Cleveland wants a bona fide 1st...minimum. Frankly, I think at the end of the day they won't back off of their demands enough for us to really see him coming here...but someone else may end up ponying up who has a later 1st round pick. I think we might like him, but we won't be desperate for him.

    Now the fans in S FLA are going to be extremely leery of trading a 2nd for a qb...cause we have really flopped on that transaction enough to leave us shellshocked. At the end of the day I don't see it happening because we have too many needs, and I think the braintrust is intrigued enough with Beck to want him to have a real shot.

    I think the more likely scenario is we sign a vet qb that is not sexy and give Beck a shot at taking the reins. If he fails I think you see us make a big QB move next year not this one. If he succeeds then our whole plan is excellerated.
     
  12. billsfaninpeace

    billsfaninpeace New Member

    181
    1
    0
    Dec 4, 2007
    Houston set the market here I think.

    Because 2 2nds for an unprooven Shaub.

    So you can argue that Anderson is still unprooven, one good year so I would not go any higher than what Houston set 2 2nds
     
  13. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

    4,932
    4,784
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Yeah and I don't think we would give up both of ours...too many needs. If we are a different team and the only thing holding us back is a qb then maybe. But multiple picks isn't going to fly.

    Plus I think a lot of the fans around here have given up on Beck, but the comments of our current FO lead me to believe they think he's got potential. You can't sell your investments short if you want to build long term success.
     
  14. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Derek Anderson at the age of 23 (2006)
    John Beck at the age of 26 (2007)

    Completion %
    John Beck: 56.1
    Derek Anderson: 56.4

    Of course, I'd argue that Anderson's completion % would've been much higher if he'd just take more sacks. What would be the point of that though?

    John Beck dropped back to pass (not including QB scrambles) 117 times, he got sacked 10 times. Derek Anderson dropped back to pass 125 times and got sacked 8 times.

    Sack rate:
    John Beck: sacked once every 11.7 drop backs
    Derek Anderson got sacked once every 15.63 drop backs

    That's a pretty vast difference.

    Yards per attempt
    John Beck: 5.2
    Derek Anderson: 6.8

    John Beck touched the ball 126 times, it resulted in 2 touchdowns and 8 turnovers. Derek Anderson touched the ball 129 times, it resulted in 5 touchdowns and 9 turnovers.

    Anderson was garbage in '06, but he was much better than what Beck was in '07, and he was 3 years younger.
     
  15. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Good post.
     
  16. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

    4,932
    4,784
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Yes, but there is one colossal gap...John Beck is already on our team and DA is not. Plus Beck is regarded as an unfinished project. We might make a move for DA...I could definitely see us having interest...but I guarantee you it will be at our price and not Cleveland's and that will be why we don't get him, because someone is going to be willing to overpay.
     
  17. billsfaninpeace

    billsfaninpeace New Member

    181
    1
    0
    Dec 4, 2007
    No I dont think you should give up youe 2 2nds this year.

    I really dont think Anderson is worth nearly what Schaub got either but that is neither here or there.

    But your 2nd Second and a 2nd in 09 will do it.

    You have to look at your 1st second as the 32nd pick in the draft. It holds that value
     
  18. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    26,254
    17,386
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Orlando
    The only diagreement I have with your statement is that Anderson is not worth what Schaub got. Schaub was so coveted based on what, 2 games plus pre season? DA played the entire season and put up huge numbers. Yes, he had good talent but Charlie Frye was garbage with that same talent.
     
  19. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    I agree for the most part. I really like DA, but I wouldn't even think about a 1st round pick for him, given how high we pick. I don't think the 32nd overall pick is out of the question though.

    I think that if you weigh Anderson's talent against most players taken in the 2nd round, Anderson would probably come out on top. A lot of people act as if Anderson's '07 season was as good he's going to get, but at 24 years old with the arm that he has, he could be good for a very long time. His size/athletism/arm would be very hard to match, there's a lot of projectability to him, and he's already somewhat proven.
     
  20. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Derek Anderson should have considerably more value than what Shaub had when the Texans traded for him. I don't think any team should go by what the Texans paid to get Shaub though, as they gave up far too much. Hell, I wouldn't give up 2 2nd round picks for Derek Anderson.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2008
  21. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Thanks, I guess I should also note that Trent Green didn't seem to have much trouble when it came to getting sacked. Green dropped back 148 times and got sacked only 7 times (1 sack every 21.14 drop backs)
     
  22. Mr.Majestik

    Mr.Majestik New Member

    52
    2
    0
    Dec 2, 2007
    In response

    I've said countless times, the weapons he had on offense are overstated. He didn't have much to work with in terms of receiving option after Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow. Jurevicius is a below average #2 WR and after him they literally have nothing, as Jamal Lewis was their next leading receiver. Edwards and Winslow are a very nice 1, 2 punch, to throw to, but the talent on that offense isn't close to what the Patriots, Colts or Cowboys have to offer.

    Hell, Charlie Frye had the same exact weapons to throw to last season and he looked like absolute s___. The Browns go from scoring 14.9 points per game in '06 (30th in scoring offense), to scoring 25.1 points per game in '07 (8th). You're telling me that Derek Anderson had nothing to do with that?

    Braylon topped his previous career highs by 19 receptions, 405 receiving yards and 10 touchdowns (in as many games). Kellen Winslow topped his previous career highs by 231 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns. I guess Derek Anderson shouldn't get any of the credit.


    His weapons are overstated? Positively ludicrous. Over 3000-yards in offense, 210 receptions, and 24-touchdowns from his top three receiving threats. 1300 yards rushing, 9 touchdowns and 4.4 ypc from his running back. And a revamped offensive line with Pro Bowlers protecting his blind side. If his weapons are overstated, tell us what receiving trio and running back did better outside of New England, Indy and Dallas? Your argument is essentially--Anderson had great talent, but not the absolute best talent, or the most talent, therefore you cannot impart a large degree of his success to his surrounding cast. Which is pure nonsense. If Derek Anderson was the Dolphins' starting quarterback this year he would of been flat-out horrible.

    To call Joe Juervicius a "below average" #2 receiver, is mindboggling in its stupidity, especially when you praise Kevin Walter and Houston's not-so-stellar lineup a little later. Again, I guess a quarterback must call upon T.J. Houshmanzadeh, Reggie Wayne, or Wes Welker as their #2 guy in order for that player to get some credit. If Juervicius is "below average" who is average? It's interesting that when Juervicious had a better quarterback throwing him the ball, Matt Hasselbeck, he had 10 TDs in a season. Since you point out how much the Brownies skill players have improved with Anderson, I think it only fair to point out that Edwards is in his third-year, which is usually a breakout year for receivers, and Winslow is essentially in his second-year after spending the first two years of his career on I.R., and that their progress would have been expected irregardless of who their quarterback was. Now this is not to say that Anderson is not a competent quarterback, he clearly is competent, but he is no better than John Beck at a similar stage of his career. Put Beck behind that Cleveland line, let him lob balls to Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow for a full season and see if his numbers aren't considerably better.

    Meaningless considering how many throw aways he had, which naturally lowered his completion %.

    You mean other quarterbacks don't have throwaways too?

    2007

    Cleo Lemon: 334 drop backs, 25 sacks (sacked once every 13.36 drop backs)

    Derek Anderson: 541 drop backs, 14 sacks ( sacked once every 38.64 drop backs)

    Taking a look at some of the quarterbacks with a higher completion %, here's how they're sack rates looked.

    Brodie Croyle got sacked once every 14.18 drop backs
    Tarvaris Jackson got sacked once every 16.47 drop backs
    Marc Bulger got sacked once overy 11.22 drop backs
    Jason Campbell got sacked once every 20.86 drop backs
    Philip Rivers got sacked once every 21.91 drop backs
    Kyle Boller got sacked once every 12.86 drop backs


    Not one of those quarterbacks had a higher quarterback rating then Anderson. Who the hell on here would be willing to trade a second-round pick, or a first and a third for Brodie Croyle? Tarvaris Jackson? or Kyle Boller? Why are you comparing Anderson to that handpicked bushel of garbage? Because it's sophistry, pure and simple. How about comparing Anderson's completion percentage and sack rate to the 16 guys that rated above him in QB efficiency? Who cares how Anderson compared to a career backup like Boller, or a guy like Jackson who will be out of the league in three-years. How dishonest can you be? Most of Bulger's offense was on I.R. for crying out loud. Orlando Pace missed the season. And you think that an apt comparison? Jon Jansen missed the entire season in Washington. Phillip Rivers had a new HC, OC and quarterbacks coach for crying out load. Croyle has no offensive line to speak of. We're supposed to be impressed by this?


    Derek Anderson was very likely one of the 3 hardest quarterbacks to sack this year, maybe even the hardest quarterback to sack. In large part because he knew when to throw the ball away.....


    He was one of the hardest quarterbacks to sack because he had two Pro Bowl caliber players protecting his blind side, something not many other quarterbacks can claim.

    The Ravens have a stellar record when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks.

    The Ravens have a pretty damn good record evaluating talent, period. Name a team that has drafted better, or made better free agent acquisitions in the last ten-years? Maybe the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers, maybe. But I'm not going to defend Brian Billick, even though his team was 13-3 last year in the freaking AFC.

    ....and now they're trying to sign him (Anderson) to an extension, despite trading up and selecting Quinn. Go figure....

    Why wouldn't they? They don't have to make a real choice between Anderson and Quinn. Quinn's contract doesn't cost Cleveland money until he plays. It's full of incentive clauses. If you're trying to create demand for a player, you don't do it by saying we're not going to try and re-sign him.

    There is a lot more to indicate that he's a good starting caliber QB than what you're making him out to be....

    He has one season under his belt. I suppose you forgot how valuable Scott Mitchell became after one season as a starter in Miami.

    Despite what you may believe, the Texans actually have very good weapons on offense. As a whole, they probably have better receiving weapons than what the Browns have.

    #1 WR
    Browns: Braylon Edwards
    Texans: Andre Johnson

    #2 WR
    Browns: Joe Jurevicius
    Texans: Kevin Walter

    The difference between Braylon Edwards and Andre Johnson (if you believe Edwards to be superior to Johnson) is made up by the difference between Walter and Jurevicius.


    The only difference between Walter and Jurevicius is that Jurevicius is a better player! Walter and Jurevicius had identical receiving averages. Walter caught 1 more touchdown, and 15 more passes. In a five-year career Walter has 5, count'em, 5 TDs, 4 came this season! Jurevicius has 29 touchdowns in 10-years, Walter has 5 in half the time. Not to mention a career average 1.5 ypr better than Walter's. How again is Walter better?

    TE
    Browns: Kellen Winslow
    Texans: Owen Daniels
    Winslow is better at this point, but Daniels is pretty damn good himself.

    #3 WR
    Browns: They don't really have one, Tim Carter (8 receptions, 117 yards) was out produced by both running backs on the team.
    Texans: Andre Davis (one of the better #3 WR's in the NFL)


    Rubbish. One of the better #3s in the league? Jurevicius is a "below average" #2, but Andre Davis, a guy with as many touchdowns this season (3), as he had in the previous 3 seasons combined, with more yardage this season then the previous 3 combined, and barely more yards this season, as the previous 3 combined, is "one of the better #3s"?
    Okay.

    So even though the Browns have the better running game, they don't have the overall receiving weapons the Texans do.

    You hardly proved that. Johnson isn't better than Edwards. It's a wash. Walter isn't better than Jurevicius, I proved that statistically. Daniels isn't better than Winslow, you admit that yourself. We both acknowledge that Houston has no running game, which you should be honest enough to concede helps the passing game in ways that simply multiplying good receivers cannot. Sage Rosenfels was simply better than Anderson, and he was better without the benefit of Jamal Lewis, or Pro Bowlers protecting his blind side. So let's go reacquire freaking Rosenfels. No I don't really mean that.
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  23. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

    2,111
    585
    0
    Dec 3, 2007
    North Jersey
    i disagree. I dont know how you call Jurevicious a below average #2. i think he is a great #2. He did great in Seattle. He has great hands, runs good routes, and has pretty good spped which is everything you want from your #2. his only knock really should be he seems to always be injured
     
  24. sabanhater

    sabanhater New Member

    327
    12
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    Philadelphia
    Plain & Simple.... Derek Anderson is not going to happen.

    From Phinsider:

    Savage also said that Derek Anderson is the starting quarterback heading into next season. Savage said Anderson has earned the chance to be the Browns starting quarterback again in 2008, following his breakout 2007 season, in which he was named a Pro Bowl alternate.

    He said the Browns feel Anderson should have "a chance to go into the batter's box and swing for the fences next years. Our expectation is that he'll hit some home runs for us.''

    Savage said, in effect, that this means both Anderson and Brady Quinn are off the market for 2008. Crennel had said earlier that Anderson was the starter as of now, but that the team would listen to offers.

    No one is dumb enough to give up a lot for him, and it sounds like they want to keep him anyway.
     
  25. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

    10,439
    3,176
    0
    Dec 3, 2007
    UCLA, CA
    Charlie Frye didn't have Steinbach, a healthy Ryan Tucker, or Joe Thomas protecting him. Derek Anderson won't have any of those if he comes here.
     
  26. sabanhater

    sabanhater New Member

    327
    12
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    Philadelphia
    why is everyone giving up on Beck after 4 games?
    Bring in a Vet to complement him and see what he does.

    Imagine wasting a 1st and 3rd on someone just to find out your starter was on the roster all along.
     
  27. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    I don't judge a receiving corps by it's 3 best receivers, I judge by the unit as a whole. I place a very high importance on the #1 and #2 receivers, and a high value on the 3rd and 4th options, you get the idea. By this criteria, there are a number of teams with better overall weapons. The Patriots, Colts, Cowboys, Packers, Chargers, Cardinals and the Steelers all had better supporting casts than what the Browns had to offer. As far as receiving options, the Texans and Saints have comparable overall weapons. In just about any other year, the Rams would've been on that list as well.

    In terms of receiving threats, Anderson had a very good #1 WR, a great TE, a below average #2 WR and almost nothing after that. The fact they went from scoring 14.9 points per game to 25.1 points per game is astounding. Yes, Jamal Lewis and Joe Thomas deserve a lot of the credit, but we're talking about a difference of 10.2 points per game. In a year where the Cleveland Browns defense gave up an average of 23.9 points per game (21st in scoring defense), 10 wins is an incredible feat. To give everybody but the QB credit is completely asinine.

    Jurevicius is 33 years old, has spent 10 seasons in the NFL and has never surpassed 706 receiving yards in a season. He's only topped 600 yards in a season 3 times times, he's only topped 4 touchdowns twice (one of those being in 2005 where he caught 10 touchdowns). He's spent the majority of his career as a #3/#4 WR, I see nothing to suggest he's an average #2. I'm not sure how you can base your opinion of him based on a season where he had 6 more touchdowns than his previous career high, especially considering his age. He's got 29 career touchdowns in 133 games, that comes out to 3.49 touchdowns every 16 games. There's a vast difference between a 4 TD season and a 10 TD season.

    Another thing you ignore is that 2007 was probably his 3rd best season he's had over his career, this in addition to Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow seeing a seriuos spike in their stats once Derek Anderson took over the starting job.

    As for my statements regarding Houston's lineup, I never implied they had a "stellar" lineup. Just that they have a comparable, if not better receiving core than the Browns.

    One name many people don't know is Owen Daniels, a very solid young TE. There's no doubt that the Browns have a better 1, 2 punch than the Texans, hell, they have one of the better 1,2 punches in the NFL. But that doesn't make them a great receiving core.

    When you take a look at the 3rd and 4th options, that's when the Browns lose their edge. As a #3 option, Jurevicius is solid, as a #2 WR he is below average. After Jurevicius, the Browns have absolutely nothing, which is exactly why the Texans have a comparable (if not better) receiving corps than the Browns.

    Kevin Walter is somebody I'd consider to be an average/solid #2 WR. 800 receiving yards and 4 touchdowns, solid.

    The Browns #2-4 options ('07):
    Kellen Winslow: 1,106 receiving yards, 5 touchdowns
    Joe Jurevicius: 614 receiving yards, 3 touchdowns
    Jamal Lewis: 248 receiving yards, 2 touchdowns

    The Texans' #2-4 options ('07):
    Kevin Walter: 800 receiving yards, 4 touchdowns
    Owen Daniels: 768 receiving yards, 3 touchdowns
    Andre Davis: 583 receiving yards, 3 touchdowns

    Kevin Walter is somebody I'd consider to be an average/solid #2 WR.

    It's also interesting that of the Seahawks top 3 WR's that year, Jurevicius was their only receiver over 5-11. Makes sense throwing to your biggest, most physical WR in the end zone.

    I'm not so sure that Edwards and Winslow were really better in '07 than they were in '06. IMO, the biggest differences were QB and OL play.

    Maybe, maybe not. Either way, Beck is still 3 years older than what Anderson was at the similar stage.

    OK, here's a more complete list.

    Drew Brees was sacked once every 41.75 drop backs
    Sage Rosenfels was sacked once every 41 drop backs (only 246 drop backs)
    Derek Anderson was sacked once every 38.64 drop backs (541 drop backs)
    Brett Favre was sacked once every 36.67 drop backs
    Carson Palmer was sacked once every 34.82 drop backs
    Tom Brady was sacked once every 28.52 drop backs
    Peyton Manning was sacked once every 25.52 drop backs
    Kurt Warner was sacked once every 23.55 drop backs
    Tony Romo was sacked once every 22.67 drop backs
    Philip Rivers was sacked once every 21.91 drop backs
    Jason Campbell was sacked once every 20.86 drop backs
    Eli Manning was sacked once every 20.59 drop backs
    Matt Schaub was sacked once every 19.06 drop backs
    Brian Griese was sacked once every 18.47 drop backs
    Jay Cutler was sacked once every 18.3 drop backs
    Jeff Garcia was sacked once every 18.21 drop backs
    Matt Hasselbeck was sacked once every 18.03 drop backs
    David Garrard was sacked once every 16.48 drop backs
    Tarvaris Jackson was sacked once every 16.47 drop backs
    Vince Young was sacked once every 16.28 drop backs
    Brodie Croyle was sacked once every 14.18 drop backs
    Kyle Boller was sacked once every 12.86 drop backs
    Jon Kitna was sacked once every 12 drop backs
    Joey Harrington was sacked once every 11.88 drop backs
    Donovan McNabb was sacked once every 11.75 drop backs
    Marc Bulger was sacked once overy 11.22 drop backs
    Chad Pennington was sacked once every 11 drop backs
    Damon Huard was sacked once every 10.22 drop backs
    Ben Roethlisberger was sacked once every 9.6 drop backs

    Sill not impressed?
     
  28. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    I don't care if he had the best OL of all time, that's an incredible sack rate. It's even more impressive considering the number of drop backs.

    Did I mention position players? No, I specifically mentioned their track record when it comes to quarterbacks. They have a great track record when it comes to just about any other position, but nobody can deny their terrible track record when it comes to quarterbacks.

    If Matt Shaub can garner 2 2nd round picks, I'm pretty sure Derek Anderson can bring good value. There's no need for a charade....

    Scott Mitchell was a year older, had only 245 career passing attempts and didn't have the impressive sack rate that Anderson does. That said I'm well aware of the risks that come with Anderson, I just like his chances.

    Of course Jurevicius is going to have better numbers, he's got 10 years under his belt. Walter didn't have his 'breakout' season until '07.

    Welker had just 1 career TD in 3 seasons before he was traded to the Patriots.

    As far as last year, Walter outproduced Jurevicius by 186 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns.

    Andre Davis was one of the better #3 WR's in '07, and Jurevicius was a below average #2 WR in '07.........like it or not.

    Johnson doens't need to be better than Edwards in order for Houston's receiving core to equal or exceed that of Cleveland's.

    Unless you can prove that 614>800 or 3>5, you haven't really proven anything. We'll just agree to disagree on that part.

    Houston's top 4 receiving options are greater than that of Clevelands, IMO. Mainly because Jamal Lewis, who isn't even that good of a receiving back, was Cleveland's 4th receiving option. Houston's top 4 receiving options are solid all the way through. The difference between Daniels/Davis and Jurevicius/ Lewis more than offsets the advanage Cleveland has in Edwards/Winslow.
     
  29. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Considering that Derek Anderson didn't get sacked but once every 38.64 drop backs last season, I'm pretty sacks wouldn't be a problem. His lack of WR's may be a problem though, depending on what we do in the offseason/draft.
     
  30. Bonedoc7777

    Bonedoc7777 New Member

    324
    4
    0
    Dec 2, 2007
    we should only trade for a guy who is young and will be with us a long time, the dog is a viszla
     
  31. houtz

    houtz New Member

    273
    36
    0
    Dec 14, 2007
    I think Beck needs to start right from the get go next season. He's to old for us to wait 1 or 2 years and let him gain experience.
     
  32. #1DoLfAnOKesh

    #1DoLfAnOKesh New Member

    139
    2
    0
    Dec 13, 2007
    lmao...quinn will be sitting for a while now
     
  33. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    Not really, Beck could very well have 8-10 very productive years in the NFL. It's not all that uncommon for Qb's to play well into their late 30's.
     
  34. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    Getting great protection from your line makes all the difference in the world. Anderson's sack rate is a reflection of how good his line is.

    If I remember correctly, there were many people that felt that the Texans gave up too much to get Schaub. Just because one team is willing to overpay, that doesn't mean that sets the market.

    There are more important stats to judge a QB by than sack rate, which is more of a reflection of OL play than it is an attribute of a QB. Anderson has one good year on his resume and that's all. He is more valuable to the Browns than he is to the rest of the NFL. The Browns see him as their rising young QB that is worth a major haul in a trade and other NFL teams see him as a promising young player that might develop into a good QB, but up to this point isn't worth a 1st and a 3rd.

    I really doubt the Brownies will get any takers if they hold to those demands.
     
  35. Breed

    Breed New Member

    118
    5
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    The OL is a factor, but it isn't the only factor. Tavaris Jackson plays behind what might be the best OL in the NFL, and he got sacked once every 16.47 drop backs.

    I was one of those people, I'm not sure he was worth much more than a 2nd round pick, let alone 2 2nd round picks. If you look at some of my other posts, you would know what I think Anderson's worth is, and it isn't relative to what the Texans gave up to get Shaub.

    I judge a QB by his adjusted QB rating, and the supporting cast he has around him.

    I adjust the QB rating to acount for the number of times sacked, yardage lost, and fumbles.

    The sacks would go in the completion % part of the formula.

    The yardage lost would go in the YPA part of the formula.

    ...and the fumbles lost would go in the "INT" (or turnover) part of the formula.


    ...out of one complete NFL season at the age of 24. That's pretty good.....

    We don't know yet what his perceived value is, and we probably won't know until after the draft.

    I really doubt the Brownies will get any takers if they hold to those demands.[/QUOTE]

    It depends on if there's anybody out there desperate for a QB, and if they're willing to pay the price.
     

Share This Page