[admin] Please do make comments personal! Personal attacks are not allowed here. [/admin] So by your logic Camarillo is two levels better than Nicks, lol. Un-be-lie-vable. Camarillo is an eminently replaceable WR. His stats look "good" at the end of the year b/c he knows zones and how to get open. But as far as pure skill goes or replacement value, he can be replaced overnight. Did our passing offense get worse or better with the loss of Cammy? Yep. Replaceable. Easily. Just another slow-foot WR who is is good guy. That's Cammy. Look at it this way: Would someone two levels better than Nicks leave a HUGE hole in a passing offense? Yep.
What has Hakeem Nicks done in the NFL that is better than Greg Camarillo? Answer: nothing. End of argument. And if you knew ANYTHING about the game and indeed about wideouts, you wouldn't call Camarillo "slow foot" because that's the very last thing he is. A precision route runner with tremendous footwork.
Nicks could be a bust and turn into Derek Hagan. You never know. Nicks could be Rasaun Woods. Fact is u dont know what u have in college kids. We know what Cam can do and he has shown it against the NFL these kids have not
You seem to think Nicks is a fast WR, when the truth is he's not even a fast person.He run's the 40-yard dash in 4.54 seconds.Most of are LB's are 4.6 guy's. The thing that Makes Nick's a great college player is everything but his speed. I could take Nick's to parks all over the U.S. and even the UK and it wouldn't be hard at all to find people that would beat him in a foot race.
Straight line speed and game speed are extremely different. The fastest players aren't always the ones who run the fastest 40's.
I think what's going on here is the mixing up predicted talent with established production. Sure, Nicks on paper looks much more talented and a higher ceiling than Greg Camarillo. But Nicks has not produced at all in the NFL so point Camarillo for now. Keyword: FOR NOW. No doubt in my mind that Nicks is a much more talented WR than Camarillo but he hasn't shown that in the pros yet. He has a high probability of succeeding (doesn't mean he's 100%) with his skills but hasn't yet. Camarillo had a low probability of succeeding but bucked the odds.
Really so your saying Devon Bess sometimes plays faster then his 4.6 speed would suggest.Your kidding I'm sure most here know what i think about 40 times, other then you, but if you think you see a fast guy when you see Nick's, lol your not.
I've never seen him play. It was a general statement, and one that you took entirely wrong. On the playing field a guy that runs a 4.65 with pads off, but has great agility and movement from side to side, can look faster than a guy who runs a 4.4 straight line.
Pretty much. I mean a guy like Michael Norris here at UCLA supposedly runs a 4.48, 4.40 low according to NFLdraftscout. Though I will highly dispute that because during a Phy Sci 133: Exercise Physio class in which he was in my lab group, we clocked him at 4.53, 4.59, 4.57 on grass (I ran 4.49, 4.52, 4.61). But I digest. He runs much slower on game-day for sure. I've seen LB's catch up to players from farther out than Norris, and I'm betting they don't clock a sub 4.5.
I think a lot of people overestimate what a tenth of a second really is. It's probably about a quarter of a step. Side to side movement is a lot more important when it comes to getting open unless you're Randy Moss. Of course if you run a 4.3 and have those side to side moves thats even better.
Exactly, and really it's just the tenths digit that matters most if you go by those. If you don't have a 4.3 or side to side moves, well, you better be 6'4 and up and can really leap. It's a reason why I can outrun Norris in any subjective tests (i.e. impromptu football game during lab hours).
Top Ten Things I Like About Hakeem Nicks: 1. He runs with weight. You will never, ever get the feeling that this guy's base is in danger of being moved by incidental contact from a CB. He operates as if the contact isn't there. 2. Hands. Hands. Hands. Hands. Big, beautiful hands. 3. Has modeled his game after Steve Smith since high school. That's a good model for him to have because, quite honestly, he draws natural Steve Smith comparisons in the way that he can keep his base and feet under him despite arm tackle attempts, then get up and go. 4. Team captain. Nuff said. 5. Big game player. He got BETTER after Brandon Tate went down. And he had one of the most impressive games of his career in his latest bowl game. I would say THE most impressive game of his career, but he has had some doozies, notably against Virginia (2007), Boston College (2008) and Notre Dame (as a frosh, 2006 the year ND was actually good). Notice that all three opponents were actually quite good. 6. Deceptive speed. He's a bit leggy, like a Chris Chambers, but don't be deceived into thinking he doesn't have speed. He will not run slower than a 4.52 at the Combine. 7. Question: "What's your favorite night club in downtown Franklin Street?" Answer: "I don't have one." 8. Pro routes. Not a gimmick offense. I've watched UNC many times to get a look at them and they will spend entire games not even looking up to pass, going with the ground game, little screens, short passes, etc. 9. He impresses me on plays where he doesn't even get a look. You love to see that. 10. Something you just can't coach: a natural nose for the end zone. Give him a catch or a run close to the end zone, and you see what happens. I'll tell you what you won't see, is him go to the ground at the 5, 2 or 1 yard line. It doesn't matter who is trying to tackle him, who has what angle, he finds it. It's the same way with the sticks, he finds the sticks and plays accordingly. What you have is a player that will not be redirected, a player that may not be the most crispy of route runners but who will run that route no matter what the corner is trying to do to him physically. This is a guy that will come down with the tough catch as well as the easy one. He will keep his balance through arm tackles and even when he gets turned around. He will listen. He won't get into trouble. He will find the end zone. He will run the reverse, the screen, the in, out, dig, hitch, slant, post, high post-corner, sluggo, chair, corner, whatever you want. He'll impress you on blocks. He'll make the first guy miss. He'll think quickly. He's the best WR in college football. The primary difference between him and Crabtree, IMO, is that Crabtree plays in a spread that creates more space between defenders, and gets the ball put out to the receivers like 50 times a game.
Amen to that -- you're preaching to the choir here, though. re: your number five above: one thing that is so incredible, which sets him so far above the Cammy's and Bess's of the world is that he puts entire games on his shoulder and STILL carries teams and excels when he is the focal point of defense stops. Ain't never been, ain't ever gonna be a game where Cammy or Bess carry a team -- when they are the focus of the defensive stop. They'll seldom even be double covered. They rely on vertical guys like Ginn to keep the under zones open and ensure they're never doubled: guys like Bess and Cammy can produce when others are the focal point of the pass D. Which is why Ginn is so important to this offense, even when he's not catching balls. Which is why it is so important to add a guy like Nicks to this team and NOT be seduced by the fact that we have a roster of WRs like Bess and Cammy. We still have to upgrade WR in order to be a dominant O. O line and WRs are a need. The fact that Bess and Cammy are solid underneath and tween guys who can catch should NOT create homer-like beer goggles among the "faithful." Yes, Boomer, that means you, too, lol. btw, Boomer -- olive branch: maybe we were both wrong earlier: maybe I'm not stupid and maybe you're not special! grin. Thanks for a great post, CK. You're very incisive, and it's greatly appreciated. LD
I know. You're Serbian. Now start popping collars. Leave the Englishmen comments to Brits or sons of British Nationals.
I just wonder if the Parcells/Ireland mindset includes drafting a WR that high. I know Parcells has never been a big fan of spending a lot of money on receivers, and we're already paying Ginn top 10 money. And if I remember correctly, I think both Parcells and Ireland are of the belief that receivers can be drafted later and developed.
Dude, you can say what you like about me. Sticks and stones. But if you continue to say that college players are better than current NFL players then you'll get short shrift here. If you said that with a straight face to any scout or NFL personnel person, they'd laugh you out of the room. Has Nicks got great NFL potential? Yes. But smarter men than me and you made pretty big mistakes with Charles Rogers, Marcus Nash, Buster Davis, etc. NFL potential doesn't equate to being better than guys actually producing at the moment in the league. Ask Tony Sparano 100 times who he'd prefer in tomorrow's game, Nicks or Davone Bess. He's tell you Davone Bess 100 times out of 100. So whilst it might be convenient for you to perceive me as "partly wrong", I'm not. I have no beef with you or anyone else and Nicks is a fine player, but saying that collegians are better than proven pros is nonsense.
i would love to get Nicks, but i dont want to spend a high pick on wide out. thats why i hope we get sammie stroughter on day 2. dudes a player
The only caveat to this I would offer would be that even Davone Bess is not guaranteed to be Davone Bess from one year to the next. For every Charles Rogers or David Terrell that everyone was so sure would be better than Hines Ward or Derrick Mason, there are also Kevin Johnsons, Michael Claytons and Keary Colberts who didn't even turn out to be as good Kevin Johnson, Michael Clayton or Keary Colbert. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. Absolutely nothing.
I just can't see the team passing over the idea of selecting a top NT, a SOLB, and an interior linemen in order to acquire a WR. I'd even think that another free agent WR may be looked at before anyone else. Someone who can compliment Ginn Jr. but not a guy who has to be that dynamic. Nicks does fit that, however I doubt we have enough picks. I'd much rather see the team create a top run defense in addition to fortifying the run game.
Just done watching that Car Care Bowl. Couple of good prospects in that game not called Hakeem Nicks or Patrick White. Garrett Reynolds, who Con and I are both high on, is going to get some admiring glances from this team. Talk about a consistent guy who gets NO pub. He's a tremendous run blocker; he gets so low in his stance and really drives ends out of the play. He's got pretty darn good feet and hands for a really rather rugged type as well. As a pure RT, you'd be hard pressed to find much better. Plus he has some great NFL blood in his family; his uncle was Hacksaw Reynolds who played MLB very well for the old LA Rams. Ryan Stanchek is a decent mid to late round G/T type. Was very disappointed in Greg Isdaner who I saw pre injury and against Pitt earlier this year, but he was mediocre. On the Pat White TD pass to go up 21-14, if you watch him, he gets absolutely routed by the tackle on some of the stiffest waist bending and reaching I've seen in a long time. But two really nice prospects reside in the Tar Heel secondary; Kendric Burney at CB who can cover, can really play the run well and return kicks and the very exciting safety Deunta Williams who is good enough to man up and play one on one CB and also sit in the deep centrefield and pick off passes. Both are sophomores so not for this year but a pair to keep an eye on and if Williams especially continues to improve, the sky's the limit. And looking ahead to the 2010 draft that that may contain amongst others Eric Berry, Morgan Burnett, Reshad Jones, and Chad Jones at safety as well as corners like Ras-I Dowling and Donavan Warren at CB, Williams certainly wouldn't be out of place in that group. Reynolds is very underrated and just very good.
I used to work for a guy whose son, Rich Erenberg, set all kinds of rushing records at Colgate, must have been 25 years ago. He played for the Steelers, his rookie year might have been the same as RB Walter Abercrombie for them. The guy told me that the difference between 4.4 and 4.5, for example, was huge, it meant the difference between turning the corner on a sweep or not. It's not a guarantee for success, only one facet of the game, but a very important one. Some players- the Emmit Smiths, Jerry Rice's, have the overall talent and intangibles to make that extra tenth of a second less important, but I would imagine that at this level any edge that you can get is critical.
Also Brooks Foster can play football. He's got the size, the speed, good hands, and return abilities which means he can think quickly. It wouldn't surprise me if Brooks Foster comes to the NFL and starts catching balls like Adrian Arrington and you're like whoa, didn't think he was THAT good...
Boom...been watching and liking Loadholt for two years now. Love him as a RT prospect....just a huge man to deal with for any DE. Thoughts on him and him as a Dolphin?
I think he's a monster in terms of size and wingspan but he looks like a jelly on a merry-go-round at times. His balance is awful. If he can keep ends away from him, using his size and his hands, then he's fine, but if he allows them in close, they can move on him and he's lolling around all over the joint. He's big man on campus and I think he'll play at the next level, probably as you say, at RT.
You're still not talking about straight line speed though. On a pitch or sweep play there is as much side to side movement as there is straight line running. What I'm saying is that a guy that runs a 4.4 doesn't always PLAY faster than the guy who ran the 4.5 because of other factors.
