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Official MLB Offseason Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by BigDogsHunt, Nov 25, 2008.

  1. Higgi

    Higgi Numb

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    Thank You Very Much!
    This is so true. I have come across so many Sox fans claiming to be old timers, yet they know nothing of the Red Sox pre 2004.

    Case in point: A couple of years ago I was at a bar w/ some family and friends during the baseball season. Throughout the night a nasty *** bigger woman was cheering the Sox on loudly and annoyingly. My sister, having had enough of the banter, decided to exchange some friendly trash talking. Somewhere along the talking my sister questioned the lady's fandom by saying "I bet you cant even name 3 Red Sox pitchers..." The fan answered w/ Papelbon, and couldnt even spit out the names of any other pitcher (isnt Beckett a given?). My sister laughed and the lady jumped over a table and charged my sister. Luckily, a few of us were able to hold off the stampeding woman.

    I guess after that, I have always looked at Sox fans a lil differently. I dont mind the knowledgeable and true fans, but I really hate snotty bandwagon Red Sox fans.
     
  2. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think the bandwagoning that you guys are complaining about is true of every sports franchise when they win. I dont think it's unique to Sox fans, or that it reflects badly on true Sox fans. I live in LA so I know all about bandwagon fans lol. I cant hate the Sox too much though, their recent success is what got me back into baseball. Their continued success against the Angels might make me rethink the hate thing though :wink2:
     
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  3. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    So, before the thread turns into a Red Sox love/hate-fest, back to the news (btw, I hate Boston in general, Sox/Patriots/Celtics included).

    Hate to see Lowe gone since he was a solid starter especially in the playoffs. Still, I'm wondering why the Dodgers haven't made much offers to any veteran pitcher. I know they're waiting on Manny but there are still quality guys out there. Lack of improvement during the offseason is kinda getting to me.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers24-2008dec24,0,4851790.column

     
  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't disagree with these posts. However like what Don Shula said, this happens in every franchise when teams win. It's no different from the Red Sox to the Yankees to the Patriots to the Giants to the which ever NHL team wins the Stanley Cup etc. I remember in the early 90s going to Yankee games and the stadium was empty, if the Yankees haven't have been so successful from 1996 to the present there's no way they draw 4 million fans a year, ditto for the Red Sox since they set the attendance record and the Indians in the mid 90's before that. As soon as teams start winning people jumped on, but that's just natural. People like rooting for winners. Case in point does anyone really think there were 22,000 Rays' fans before this year? Or that the Rockies had actual fans before 2007?

    Again I think it's unfair to label any team's fans as the worst or least knowledgeble etc. I'm sure everyone has a similar story as Higgi but with a different team. And I don't like the bandwagon fans either as I used to go to about 5 or 6 Sox games a year (I live almost 3 hours away from Fenway so it's a hike for me). I had went to every opening day at Fenway from 1990 to 2004 but ever since the Sox won the WS in 2004, I'm lucky if I get to see 2 or 3 games a year and even then I end up paying 100 bucks a ticket for a 35 dollar seat via stubhub. I hate it but I do realize it comes with winning, you have to take the good and the bad.
     
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  5. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Yanks pounced on Teixeira at right time | MLB.com: News

    I do feel dissapointment for the Nationals, as I think our Nations Capital is an ideal location for successful sports franchises. It just didnt work out this time. Hopefully they continue to do the little things right, and eventually, like the Rays, get Free Agents to view them as having turned a corner and viable for their services, and not just $$$$.

    Also, I still find it odd that all these "expected" Yankees line-ups omit Swisher. Something is strange with all of that, but we will see.
     
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  6. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Nelson, Rays agree to one-year deal | MLB.com: News

    Its not huge news, but already having one of the younger Pitching Staffs in of all of baseball, and adding reliable experienced pen depth is a scary thought potentially.
     
  7. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    You agree with what he has to say??? And you call me a fool for generalizing red sox fans. If you go back and read my comments i said the exact same things sam said. I liked sox fans until 2004, then they went overboard.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    First of all I never called you a fool. Second what Sam said and what you said are completely different.

    You said that Sox fans are the most idiotic, least knowledgeable and most likely to get into fights. While what Sam said was that Sox fans were annoying and there were bandwagoners once they won in 2004. How is that the same? It's not, you generalized the typical 'dumbest fans, all they do is fight etc etc' stuff that gets said about every franchise by rival/hater fans.

    And I agreed with Sam that there has been a good amount of bandwagon fans since the Sox won and a lot of fans are in fact annoying because they feel as though they're intitled to anything and everything because they have been so successful. Of course it happens with EVERY sports team when they win, it's just a fact that I agreed with.

    Again, the whole bandwagon thing happens with every franchise when they start winning. Go back and look at old Yankee games in the late 80's and early to mid 90s. There's probably about 300 people in the upper decks, now the team draws 4 million people, what happened between then? The Yankees started winning. Look at the Rays, again do you think there were 25,000 to 30,000 closet Rays fans before 2008? Winning does that.
     
  9. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    How bad is it at the catching position. The Yankee's signed Kevin Cash, the Sox backup catcher last year.
     
  10. Oboy

    Oboy Premium Member Luxury Box

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    While Bandwagon fans are the norm with winning franchises... Obnoxious ones with a superiority complex are not. That is what seems to be the norm for most NE fans. Even NY Giant fans don't seem to be this bad and up to recently I always thought Jets fans were the worst.
     
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  11. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    And your right you didnt call me a fool, you called me dumb and catty.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Finfangirl View Post
    Manny watching his HR's from Homeplate makes me sicker than i can put into words, and manny being manny is a ridiculous notion. But, i want manny simply because it will chap the sox fans' arses a bit more. i hate sox fans...they are the most idiotic, least knowledgeable, most likely to get into a fight fans i have ever met. They used to be lovable losers, and they were fun to talk too, but 5 yrs ago, most of them changed.
    Oh please way to generalize and stereo type a fan base you probably have no personal knowledge of outside a few friends, message boards or ESPN. And I'm not saying Sox fans are perfect because I agree some fans have become way over the top due to success of the team, but it's true with any fan base in any sport. I just think comments like that are just dumb and catty.

    And I guarantee that if the Yankees signed Manny and he watched his HRs, you'd have no problem with it, just like you probably have no problem with Joba Chamberlain's celebrations after he gets outs in the middle of a baseball game."



    i also said in that same post you are quoting - i used to like sox fans before 2004, they used to be loveable losers, now they've just gone nuts.

    I agree about bandwagoners. Which is the reason most sox fans are not knowledgeable about their teams history pre 2004.

    I'm not going to argue back and forth with you, we'll just have to agree to disagree. And your sig and avatar are just the kind of thing i'm talking about. You're on a miami dolphins message board with all boston red sox garb. Makes total sense.
     
  12. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    I think this signing was just a stick it to the sox kinda move. I'm not sure the yanks need him, unless they are signing a knuckleballer sometime soon.
    He accepted a minor league contract so he must not have gotten too many other offers.
    What are the sox going to do about a catcher? Are they gonna resign Tek? Are you worried he wont return to his career numbers? Is there a decent catching prospect the sox are gonna bring up?
     
  13. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Again I never said you were dumb and catty, I said the comments were. There's a difference.

    And I'm sorry but I'm confused and a little amused about your last comments. Who cares what my sig and avatar are? Who cares what anyone's sigs or avatars are? I guess I'm the only person on this message board that doesn't have something Dolphin like on their sig and avatar?

    And obviously I don't have to explain anything I do to you or anyone else on this board for that matter but I will say the reason why I use Sox stuff as my sig and avatar is because of the member who made them. Not only do I consider him a good friend here on this board and not only because the sigs and avatars he makes are really top notch stuff (I've never seen something he's done graphics wise that wasn't anything less than fantastic) but it's more about showing him respect and appreciation because he's one of the main reasons why we're even talking on this message board right now. Without him and countless others, around this time last year working their butts off for us putting together this board, we wouldn't have this board here right now and instead would be stuck talking on one of those other dead sites.
     
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  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Jon Heyman was on WFAN talking about Teixeira. Said Teixeira did like LA and was upset once LAA owner came out in the public and said he wouldn't be back. Before Teixeira went and signed with the Yankees, Teixeira went back to LA and said he'd sign with them for $176 million for 8 years but LA said no and they were sticking to their 164-68 million offer, so he went to the Yankees, which was his first choice on the East Coast.
     
  15. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    you think this is a way for boras to use heyman again and get some groundwork in for the angels to bid on manny?
     
  16. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    I was really hoping those rumors of Tex saying he'd sign for us for 176 were false.

    I understand why Arte pulled the offer. He submitted it and then never heard a word from Boras. After 2 weeks of not getting a counter proposal or even any recognition of the offer Moreno was probably a bit insulted. When they come back to you though and only want a couple mill more a year, you jump at it! :pity:

    Ugh. We give GMJ a ridiculous deal, overpay for Hunter just so we can sign him quickly but wont budge for Tex! He's the player we've needed for the last 3 or 4 years. :tantrum:
     
  17. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Not sure. Clearly the Angels need someone in their line up that can hit more than 25 home runs. Manny is a nice fit for sure. It is very interesting to see that no one is really after Manny, besides the Dodgers were earlier this off season. I think teams are scared to give him anything longer than 2 years in fear of him quitting/taking vacations/coasting during the season. It's too bad that Manny pissed all over his reputation for money, although I think Boras is to be blamed there for his Sox break up. It will be interesting to see where he ends up signing and for how long. He wants a 4 year 100 million dollar deal but there's no way any team would do that.

    Just a guess but I think he'll end up back with the Dodgers for 2 years and 50 million. If not LAD, than Washington or Baltimore for probably the same 2 years 50 million.
     
  18. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Perhaps. But I wouldnt be surprised if the Angels were so pissed at Boras right now that they'd move on from Manny just to screw a Boras client. (probably wouldnt the reason, but could be a reason imo).

    I dont think they want to help Boras with a crosstown rival bidding war. Though Manny would be a great fit for the Angels...
     
  19. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Again who knows if it is true or not. Heyman, though to his credit, is usually very good at getting information and breaking news of deals/trades. It does sound as though that Moreno hurt his teams chances with his public comments.
     
  20. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    I tend to agree with you. Although i think arte got that teix wanted to go east coast - no matter who it was -- so another 4 million wasnt going to make a difference. I've read in a few places that teix liked his time in anaheim more than he thought he would, but his wife thought it was quite pretentious and fake. I think the angels will be just fine w/o teix, but they really need to make sure they keep their rotation in order. I see them picking up fuentes and maybe swinging a trade with the yanks for swisher.
     
  21. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think some in the front office had a similar feeling to yours. That Tex wanted to go east and wasnt as committed to signing in Anaheim as some originally thought. Ive read about his wife not really liking Ca that much. Some are already calling her Mrs. Kurt Warner II :lol: How can you not like Southern California lol?
     
  22. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Have you seen this.

    BY KAT O’BRIEN | kat.obrien@newsday.com

    Even Tuesday, hours before Teixeira agreed to terms, the Yankees were pessimistic about getting the 28-year-old slugger, the source said. Boras told the Yankees they needed a 10-year deal, with the last two years as player options. That got an absolute no from the Yankees, who had offered eight years and $180 million ($22.5 million per year).

    Around midday Tuesday, Boras said Teixeira would agree to an eight-year contract, but only if the average annual value was $24 million per year, making the total contract value $192 million. The Yankees conferred, then told Boras no, that they had made a fair yet firm offer and would stand pat, the source said. Boras responded by saying that Teixeira likely would be a Red Sox.

    The Yankees refused to budge from their offer, and 20 minutes later, Boras called back and said Teixeira would take their eight-year, $180-million offer.
     
  23. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    or this.

    Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:42 am EST

    Red Sox may avoid free agents whenever possible from now onIn the short term, the loss of free agent Mark Teixeira to the New York Yankees is a stinging disappointment for the Boston Red Sox, who once more were trumped at the 11th hour, outbid by their archrivals for a coveted player.

    But in the long run, that disappointment may give way to a sea change in how the Red Sox operate. Reminded again how futile it can be to get into checkbook duels with the Yankees, indications are that the Sox are leaning toward swearing off big-ticket free agents for good while continuing to emphasize scouting and player development, according to the Boston Herald.

    That philosophical shift isn’t as radical as it may first appear. As general manager Theo Epstein pointedly noted at the winter meetings earlier this month, the current ownership group has given out just two free agent contracts of more than $40 million since taking over in February 2002 — the $70 million deal for J.D. Drew and the $52 million outlay — to say nothing of the $51 million posting bid — for Daisuke Matsuzaka.

    In general, the Red Sox have viewed free agency as an unnecessarily expensive and often inefficient means of player procurement. They made an exception for Teixeira, noting that at 28 he was a rare package of run-producing skill, on-base ability and defensive excellence.

    The prospect of landing Teixeira was enough for the Sox to contemplate a realignment of their infield, with Kevin Youkilis [stats] shifting back to third base and Mike Lowell likely traded.

    But the process — including Lowell feeling betrayed — left them with a sour taste in their mouth and made them determined to avoid the market whenever possible.

    Source: Boston Herald

    Related: Daisuke Matsuzaka, Kevin Youkilis, Mark T
     
  24. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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  25. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    There goes another veteran starting pitcher candidate. Guess Sheets is still around.
     
  26. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Interesting article on MLB, and parity. Kind of apt given the recent talk of the Yankees and "buying" a championship.

    Think MLB is without parity? Just look at these amazing stats. - Joe Posnanski - SI.com
     
  27. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Nice article Don. It is funny hearing some GMs and owners complain about the Yankees spending yet you don't hear them kicking and screaming when they receive a luxury tax check from the Yanks.

    And I'll tell you another thing, the Giants, if they ever get some bats might be the sleeper team in the NL this year. They have a pretty strong rotation with Linecum, Cain, Johnson, Sanchez and Zito (even if Zito stinks as a 5th starter he's serviceble). In fact they might have the best rotation in the NL West right now.
     
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  28. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Boy, you aint kidding, and in that pitchers park to boot - look out. If they would understand how to build an offensive attack to compliment the surroundings - similar to the Ozzie Smith, Vince Coleman STL Cards of their day, they would rack up wins left and right.

    Don, great article wasnt it...

    I have stated I am for a Salary Cap for Baseball, not for capping roster Salaries-Only; but more importantly if it had language to force owners to spend a minimum into salaries, and invest into other areas of their franchise by freeing up any maximum Salary concerns. Again, I see lots of Small Wallet Franchises and not any Small Market ones when it comes to spending money wisely. Every franchise can succeed with a solid product on the diamond (that clearly has been proven over these last 30 years) if they would not be miserly toward their farm system, their front office intelligence, their stadiums, and the fan experience/service.
     
  29. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Dodgers sure have lost several solid reliable arms for this past season...getting a Sheets would help somewhat.
     
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  30. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Penny was a given. Lowe could hurt in the short run. Park was solid in relief. Billingsley's injury has me concerned. Yea, not looking too good here. Other than Sheets, there's really not much but bargains and sleepers (Glavine, Pettitte, Wolf, Pedro, Smoltz). Getting someone like Sheets wouldn't just help, it'd be a lifesaver. And if we have to go without Manny, then pitching becomes more important than ever.
     
  31. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    I'm not so sure pettitte would pitch anywhere other than NY. But, I think L.A. is a great option. He had his best season's under torre and loves playing for him. Also, his stuff translates well in the NL, probably around a 3.5 era or something like that. He pitched most of last season with elbow soreness and essentially a dead arm. Who knows what he'll be like healthy, but he isnt that old and he is a smart pitcher.
     
  32. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Reds ink Taveras to two-year deal | MLB.com: News

     
  33. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    And it's a pitcher's park too. Essentially, we're just looking to find someone to fill Maddux's shoes. NY with Burnett and Sabathia plus Wang already in the fold, might not have room for Pettitte anyways.
     
  34. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Red Sox apparently signed Brad Penny to a 1 year deal worth 5 million dollars (3 million in bonuses). And also signed Josh Bard to a non-guaranteed 1 year deal for 1.6 million.

    I like both moves. Low risk, high reward, especially for Penny. Bard if he makes the team, would probably make it as the starting catcher and not Wakefield's personal catcher as he was a disaster when he tried to catch him in 2005. It also gives the Sox some wiggle room with contract talks with Varitek and potential trades for a catcher. Or he could be the back up if the 'Wakefield will retire in ST' turn out to be true or have legs to them.
     
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  35. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081228&content_id=3729409&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

     
  36. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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  37. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Would hate to see GA in Oakland.
     
  38. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Nice signing by the Sox imo
     
  39. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Short term, incentive laden deal. Certainly looks like a smart deal even if it is a bit much imo.

    lol, it's already like the offseason of horrors for the Angels.
     
  40. King Felix

    King Felix Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah i feel real bad :shifty:
     

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