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Tim Tebow

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Boomer, Nov 25, 2008.

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  1. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What does that say for all the players picked after Sebastian Janikowski?

    What exactly has Colt Brennan done in the NFL that makes you think he's not going to be a good player? I mean seriously? Colt was, in the end, downgraded because of his height and because of his offense and delivery. S


    Sound familiar?

    And yes, dig up all you like. You can easily find the handful of things I missed on. Make sure you also dig out the thousands that I was right about. Hook me up when you've done that and we'll talk.
     
  2. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, one big time scout said after the game last week (And his name escapes me) that Tebow was the best football player on the field, when asked if he meant QB, he said no, Tebow is a football player.

    I see Tebow more as a Crash Jensen in the NFL than a QB.
     
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  3. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Going back and digging up a miss is a rather obvious and pretty silly attempt to disguise that every single argument against Tebow remains undisputed. Personally, I'd much rather read why his terrible footwork, his awkward mechanics, his odd delivery and his accuracy issues - coupled with the fact he ran an offense that's about as NFL-incompatible as it gets - miraculously make him an NFL QB.
     
  4. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    All joking aside.

    My last name is Jensen.....and Tebow is no Jensen.I could see him playing the Crash role very well.:knucks:
     
  5. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I just thought I'd point out that the non "basement wannabees", "draftniks", "**** for brains" or what ever name you wish to give have a success rate of about 40% and that's the high end. After this year's draft I askd the question "which players won't make it" just for fun. Most of these picks will not be here in two years and they were picked by men and consortiums who had invested thousands of man hours in interveiws, film study, reading background checks etc. we all know the drill. These people are paid not to be wrong, and they are; frequently awfully so. I would also say that collectively they are completely disillusioned if all the side work could be resolved by looking at a completion percentage. If stats were the sole evaluator then why watch film, do interviews or invest millions of dollars into all of this research if stats would be the predictor of certainty? It think it laughs not in my face, but the faces of the men like Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, Lamar Hunt and Al Davis's (pre senility) that came up with these paradigms when you say a completion percentage tells me all I need to know about him (paraphrased).

    If one were to look back over a teams draft history for say the last 5 or six years you'd be surprised just how many players stick in this league even 3 years on. Being a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounder doesn't matter at that point.
     
  6. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Why was the friendliest and most concilliatory post in this entire thread deleted?
     
  7. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Dude......it's Thursday.

    ;)
     
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  8. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I thought that it was unfounded and unduly disrespectful.

    p.s. point taken- I'm going to try to will it to be Friday!
     
  9. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That's not a valid analogy or comparison, as you can't say that his end result can deter a team from drafting him before he has actually reached that point yet.

    That should raise the issue though that very few skill position player have come out of that offense and made a big spalsh in the pros from either Utah or Florida. The system they run down there inflates players stats and I think it would likely make people more hesitant about drafting another run first pass first-A if you get my meaning. Alex Smith, Mike Vick, Vince Young have all been drafted from that mold and have failed for the most part. History such as that may make teams more wary of taking a guy who fits that mold, high. And if he isn't high on the board, the likelihood of him having an offense taylored to his style is minimal. Chances are he's going to be molding and he does have work to do to do it, but history may be working against him if Alex Smith is any indicator at any level.
     
  10. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Which is a pretty weak argument considering the fiasco that has been Alex Smith's NFL career. Essentially you're saying that because San Francisco made the mistake of ignoring all these mechanical issues and a kind of college offense that has consistently failed to produce NFL quarterbacks, it was somehow sensible to make that very same mistake again.



    It has merit in an offense system that has preciously little to do with playing QB in the NFL. Generally speaking, completion rates only tell you something when the QB in question is playing in an offense that translates well to the next level. In the case of Alex Smith or Tim Tebow you simply have to watch the tape and as soon as I watch it on Tebow, I don't see an accurate NFL QB.



    I've got no interest to take part in your little personal argument but I'll say this: If you want your opinion respected, you have to provide a convincing argument. I can respect different point of views (and I'm positive Simon can too) as long as they are making a compelling case for themselves. So far, I've not seen a compelling case here in regard to Tebow translating well to the next level. Instead I've read that mechanics are neglibile and that a 65 completion rate in Florida's offense of all systems somehow rendered all the technical issues moot. And that's just plain wrong. Make that case to any professional scout and I'm positive he'll tell you the same things Simon does.
     
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  11. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    I said completion percentage tells me all I need to know about Tim cuzz someone was talking about his mechanics,footwork and delivery.

    If his mechanics,footwork and delivery sucked so bad like some of you are saying he would not have such a High completion percentage.

    If you think that laughs in the faces of the men like Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, Lamar Hunt and Al Davis's..so be it.I'm a 100% sure they would see it my way.
     
  12. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    College completion percentage has NOTHING to do with accuracy. Vince Young threw around 66% completions in college and no-one will argue that he has great mechanics, footwork, or accuracy.
     
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  13. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I don't follow the last half of your 1st sentence. As to the second paragraph, of course it inflates stats. That's one reason why I'm not a stat monkey. Look at Hawaii- great example of a program where stats are supremely inflated. I would think BYU as well. As to your point in general, let's just agree to disagree. I think that Tebow's "run first" approach is correctable. He was asked to do that at UF and he did it. He'll be asked to do otherwise in the NFL and I think that he can do it.
     
  14. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Yet he was drafted third overall- why? He's failed so far, it happens. Are we to believe that these NFL scouts and GM's are incompetent? They miss, just like everybody else.
     
  15. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    You only have to watch Alex Smith (67% completion percentage in Utah 2004) play in the NFL to see that this theory is utterly wrong. His mechanics, footwork and accuracy stunk so completely that his whole NFL career basically ended before anyone could take a shot at "correcting" them.
     
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  16. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    You stole my thunder!!!! :lol:
     
  17. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, forgive my holier than thou attitude - I must obviously have left my head on my pillow this morning.
     
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  18. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    Lol he didn't have good footwork or Mechanics coming into the nfl.Every one knew that.

    That's why Jeff didn't want his owner to draft him.
     
  19. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It's called the Florida Offense.
     
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  20. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Because the Titans made the same mistake you are proposing in the case of Tebow: They talked themselves into believing that these issues could be corrected when nearly every piece of empirical evidence tells you that they cannot.
     
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  21. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Very true.
     
  22. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    yup , and he is the Florida Offense.Thanks:knucks: looks like we are getting somewhere now lol

    I have the day off, bring it!!!, lol i wish i could at least defend a person i like.

    Boomer , please tell us all again why joe flacco is going to be a bust again, :tongue2:
     
  23. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Is he? I thought he was helped by a huge array of quick footed wideouts and tight ends and backs who run all over the field on every down causing confusion and allowing him to complete more passes than he would in a pro attack.

    Please show me where I said Flacco would be a bust. Hook me up when you do.
     
  24. njfinfan

    njfinfan The First Lady

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    Gentlemen (and you know who you are)

    I deleted any and all posts that were personal and not related to the subject of this thread. Please keep it on topic as Marty asked you to earlier, or I will start handing out points and/or warnings. Thank you.
     
  25. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It was so nice you had to post it twice?

    :wink2:


    Are my toes on the edge of the line yet?

    Just jerkin your chain.
     
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  26. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Maybe you and Boomer can get on a three way call with Colin Lindsday from GBN and asked him what led to his losing his mind, as he has Tebow rated as a 1st rounder. As Boomer apparently worked for him, I'd like to hear how that call went.

    You all seem to be big fans of Pennington, despite his arm and throwing mechanics- that says all I need to know regarding your other points.
     
  27. njfinfan

    njfinfan The First Lady

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    :lol: This old computer had a hiccup. Been doing that more and more lately. Might be time to trade er in. :up:
     
  28. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I disagree with that- how could it have "NOTHING" to do with it? Come on now. Then I guess for the last three years on this site and others all of these arm chair quarterback "guru" assessments of college QB's that includes the completion percentage stats are worthless as well.
     
  29. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You know what they say; things kept in the family long enough take on the personality of the owner. So, who needed the trade in again?

    :wheelchair:


    :lol:
     
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  30. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Talk me through Pennington's mechanics and what's wrong with them.

    Indeed I did work with Colin. If you speak to him, say hi and remind him of the time where I told the internet on the Tuesday before the draft that Willis McGahee was going to Buffalo in round 1. Or remind him of when Chris Crocker e-mailed me and told me which round, which pick and which team he would be going to.
     
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  31. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Come on guys, play nice and stay on topic. :no:
     
  32. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I'm not proposing taking tebow #3 overall and giving him a ridiculous amount of money, so let's not directly compare the two.
     
  33. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    For someone who belittes the basement and armchair gurus you're sure quick to cite one when it suits your needs ...

    But yeah, maybe we can do that. I would really love to hear a compelling case for Tim Tebow and it seems like I'm not hearing one here.



    Come again? You're not seriously comparing Pennington to Tebow, are you?
     
  34. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    LOL it never ends
     
  35. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'm still waiting for the breakdown of Pennington's mechanics. I hope we go back to his Marshall days as well. I'm pretty sure I have my notes somewhere from back then, so I can use those as well.
     
  36. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Apology accepted.
     
  37. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I wasn't referring guys like Lindsday who get paid for their efforts. I'm referring to all of us, amateurs who spout opinions online for the hell of it.
     
  38. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    enough.. you've been warned twice, and caused a ton of work.

    Thread Closed
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To be fair to Alex Smith, he did bang up his shoulder last season, this year Shaun Hill has just played well enough to stay out on the field.

    Part of the problem with Tebow is that his face has been on the TV for years now, he has hefted the Heisman already and now is on a team playing in the BCS Championship game, that doesn't mean he is a even a mediocre NFL prospect.

    As for "projecting as a #1 pick" Chase Daniels from Mizzou had the same things said about him last season, now no one even mentions the guy.
     
  40. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    I'd never apologize to you.
     
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