1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Crap or Correct?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by put-me-in-coach, Dec 6, 2008.

Tags:
  1. put-me-in-coach

    put-me-in-coach Season Ticket Holder

    226
    166
    43
    Nov 24, 2007
    Chicago
    I've been getting excited about what our areas of need will be next year and who we may draft. I came across something that sparked my attention, its a quote from Jeff Ireland from a pre draft interview last year:

    (On after quarterback, what positions he feels are most important in building a team) Jeff Ireland– “I think there are certain core positions out there that you have to have. One is cornerback, one is left tackle, pressure players, a quarterback, a No. 1 receiver, nose tackle. I think those are all important and I think those are all core positions.”
    (On how many of those core players he feels are on the team now) Jeff Ireland-- “We don’t have a whole lot of those core positions right now, to be honest with you. We need probably all of them in every area.”



    Looking back at Parcells drafts I noticed that every 1st round pick was one of those positions Jeff said. I started to think that the quote could be something Jeff got from Parcells. Here are the drafts that Bills was either the GM or had major factor in choosing the pick:

    1993: Patriots

    Round 1 #1 Drew Bledsoe, QB Washington St.
    Round 1 #31 Chris Slade, LB Virginia
    Round 2 #51 Todd Rucci, OT Penn St.
    Round 2 #56 Vincent Brisby, WR Louisianna-Monroe
    Round 4 #86 Kevin Johnson, DT Texas Southern
    Round 4 #110 Corwin Brown, SS Michigan
    Round 5 #113 Scott Sisson, K Georgia Tech
    Round 5 #138 Rich Griffith, TE Arizona
    Round 6 #142 Lawrence Hatch, CB Florida
    Round 8 #198 Troy Brown, WR Marshall

    1994:

    Round 1 #4 Willie McGinest, LB USC
    Round 2 #35 Kevin Lee, WR Alabama
    Round 3 #78 Ervin Collier, DT Florida A&M
    Round 3 #90 Joe Burch, C Texas Southern
    Round 4 #121 John Burke, TE VT
    Round 5 #135 Pat O’Neill, P Syracuse
    Round 6 #166 Steve Hawkins, WR Western Michigan
    Round 6 #168 Max Lane, OT Navy
    Round 7 #198 Jay Walker, QB Howard

    1995:

    Round 1 #23 Ty Law, CB Michigan
    Round 2 #57 Ted Johnson, ILB Colorado
    Round 3 #74 Curtis Martin, RB Pittsburgh
    Round 3 #88 Jimmy Htchcock, CB North Carolina
    Round 4 #112 Dave Wohlabagh, C Syracuse
    Round 6 #195 Dino Philyaw, RB Oregon
    Round 7 #234 Carlos Yancy, DB Georgia

    1996:

    Round 1 #7 Terry Glenn, WR Ohio St.**Bill didn't agree, he wanted Brackens**Both are still considered CORE**
    Round 2 #36 Lawyer Milloy, SS Washington
    Round 3 #86 Tedy Bruschi, LB Arizona
    Round 4 #101 Heath Irwin, G Colorado
    Round 4 #119 Chris Sullivan, DE Boston College
    Round 4 #124 Kantroy Barber, RB West Virginia
    Round 5 #139 John Elmore, G Texas
    Round 5 #149 Christian Peter, DT Nebraska
    Round 6 #173 Chris Griffin, TE New Mexico
    Round 6 #195 Mario Grier, RB Tennessee-Chattanooga
    Round 6 #206 Devin Wyman, DT Kentucky St.
    Round 7 #216 Lovett Purnell, TE West Virginia
    Round 7 #247 J.R. Conrad, C Oklahoma

    1997: Jets

    Round 1 #8 James Farrior, OLB Virginia
    Round 2 #31 Rick Terry, DT North Carolina
    Round 3 #88 Dedric Ward, WR Northern Iowa
    Round 4 #102 Terry Day, DE Mississippi St.
    Round 4 #104 Leon Johnson, WR North Carolina
    Round 5 #131 Lamont Burns, G E. Carolina
    Round 6 #164 Tim Shaft, Northwestern
    Round 6 #191 Chuck Clements, QB Houston
    Round 7 #202 Steve Rosga, DB Colorado
    Round 7 #229 Jason Ferguson, DT - Georgia

    1998:

    Round 2 #56 Dorian Boose, DE Washington State
    Round 3 #67 Scott Frost, DB Nebraska
    Round 3 #87 Kevin Williams, FS Oklahoma St.
    Round 4 #111 Jason Fabini, OT Cincinnati
    Round 5 #134 Casey Dailey, LB Northwestern
    Round 5 #141 Doug Karczewski, G Virginia
    Round 5 #146 Blake Spence, TE Oregon
    Round 5 #149 Eric Blakeman, OT BYU
    Round 6 #163 Eric Ogbogu, DE Maryland
    Round 6 #174 Chris Brazzell, WR Angelo St.
    Round 6 #183 Dustin Johnson, RB BYU
    Round 7 #195 Lawrence Hart, TE Southern Univ.

    1999:

    ***heres a hicup to my theory, although it is not a first rounder but a second rounder and this was the year following the Jets making it to the AFC Championship game and their CORE positions were filled(in my opinion) so Parcells goes with a non core position***
    Round 2 #57 Randy Thomas, G Mississippi St.
    Round 3 #90 David Loverne, G San Jose St.
    Round 4 #123 Jason Wiltz, DT Nebraska
    Round 5 #162 Jermaine Jones, DB Northwestern State-Louisiana
    Round 6 #183 Marc Megna, LB Richmond
    Round 6 #197 J. P. Machado, G Illinois
    Round 7 #223 Ryan Young, OT Kansas St.
    Round 7 #235 J. J. Syvrud, LB Jamestown

    2000:

    Round 1 #12 Shaun Ellis DE Tennessee
    Round 1 #13 John Abraham OLB South Carolina
    Round 1 #18 Chad Pennington QB Marshall
    Round 1 #27 Anthony Becht TE West Virginia***Only first round pick not considered core, but I have to consider this special circumstances being as its the first time in NFL history a team has 4 first rounders***
    Round 3 #78 Laveranues Coles WR Florida St.
    Round 5 #143 Windrell Hayes WR USC
    Round 6 #179 Tony Scott S North Carolina St.
    Round 7 #218 Richard Seals DT Utah

    2003:Cowboys

    Round 1 #5 Terence Newman, CB Kansas St.***Bill did not like this pick, he wanted a NT still are both considered core. This also shows how Bill wasn't the final say in Dallas***

    Round 2 #38 Al Johnson, C Wisconsin
    Round 3 # 69 Jason Witten, TE Tennessee
    Round 4 #103 Bradie James, LB LSU
    Round 6 #178 B. J. Tucker, CB Wisconsin
    Round 6 #186 Zuriel Smith, WR Hampton
    Round 7 #219 Justin Bates, G Colorado

    2004:

    ***Another hicup and another second rounder***
    Round 2 #43 Julius Jones, RB Notre Dame
    Round 2 #52 Jacob Rogers, OT USC
    Round 3 #83 Steven Peterman, G LSU
    Round 4 #121 Bruce Thornton, CB Georgia
    Round 5 #144 Sean Ryan, TE Boston College
    Round 7 #205 Nate Jones, CB Rutgers
    Round 7 #216 Patrick Crayton, WR Northwestern Oklahoma St.
    Round 7 #223 Jacques Reeves, CB Purdue

    2005:

    Round 1 #11 DeMarcus Ware, OLB Troy St.
    Round 1 #20 Marcus Spears, DE LSU
    Round 2 #42 Kevin Burnett, LB Tennessee
    Round 4 #109 Marion Barber, RB Minnesota
    Round 4 #132 Chris Canty, DE Virginia
    Round 6 #208 Justin Beriault, DB Ball St.
    Round 6 #209 Rob Petitti, OT Pittsburgh
    Round 7 #224 Jay Ratliff, DE Auburn

    2006:

    Round 1 #18 Bobby Carpenter, LB Ohio St.
    Round 2 #53 Anthony Fasano, TE Notre Dame
    Round 3 #92 Jason Hatcher, DE Grambling St.
    Round 4 #125 Skyler Green, WR LSU
    Round 5 #138 Pat Watkins, FS Florida St.
    Round 6 #182 Montavious Stanley, DT Louisville
    Round 7 #211 Pat McQuistan, OT Weber St.
    Round 7 #224 E. J. Whitley, C Texas Tech

    2007:

    Round 1 #26 Anthony Spencer, OLB Purdue
    Round 3 #67 James Marten, OT BC
    Round 4 #103 Isaiah Stanbeck, WR Washington
    Round 4 #122 Doug Free, OT Northern Illinois
    Round 6 #178 Nick Folk, K Arizona
    Round 6 #195 Deon Anderson, FB Conneticut
    Round 7 #212 Courtney Brown, CB Cal Poly-S.L.O.
    Round 7 #237 Alan Ball, CB - Illinois


    Bored yet...?

    Now, alot of people break down Bill Parcells first round draft picks by saying he likes drafting LB's or defensive players, but I think its possible that he has a philosophy that first round draft picks are only worth drafting if they are "CORE" positions. And if no player fits the bill or they have there core positions filled then he would be more prone to trade down or make some sort of move.

    On to the Dolphins and what position we will draft. Lets take a look at our Core positions.

    QB- We are covered with the Chads.

    LT- With Jake Long and I'm comfortable saying that its locked down.

    WR- This one is debatable, but with the year that Ginn, Bess and Camarillo are having and this quote from an Armando Salguero blog entry, Wr may be covered:

    "I talked to him (Bill Parcells) a week or two ago and he was telling me he has only three or four players down there," another NFL legend said. "He believes he's got a punter [Brandon Fields], he's got a center [Samson Satele], he's got TED GINN, and maybe he's got a running back if Ronnie Brown gets back to being the guy he was early last year. But even Brown he's not really counting on."

    here's the link Dolphins In Depth: What Bill Parcells is telling his peeps


    CB- Allen or Goodman could both be considered our #1 guy.

    Pressure players & NT- Here are the positions we will be going after. We all can see that Peezy is the only player getting any pass rush on our team so it goes without saying that it is an important area to address this offseason. And at NT Ferg is good but is getting a little long in the tooth. Here's a question asked to Jeff from this link:COLUMN: General Manager Jeff Ireland - MiamiDolphins.com

    Q. It was obvious the offensive lines and defensive lines were the big focus this past off season. Are you satisfied where the team stands at both of those spots?

    Ireland: You are never totally satisfied. You are always looking to get better. I feel good about where we are there, but I don't think we are done by any means. I like the acquisitions we hit on. But we obviously have a 34-year-old nose tackle (Jason Ferguson), so there are some things there.


    Now I know many people already have said we will go with a pass rusher or NT with our first round pick but have they posted a super huge boring post explaining why.....? I don't think so!

    Thats all or now.
     
    RoninFin4 and mi2cents like this.
  2. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    18,044
    19,676
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    The reason "we" say an OLB is b/c over time he has used 50% of all picks on OLB's. Also since it is such a need for this team it isn't a surprise. Most have also indicated that a NT is a disctinct possibility early on in the draft.

    By the way, the whole long and boring post thing I have mastered. Have you seen some of the long winded crap I turn out? :lol:
     
    put-me-in-coach likes this.
  3. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    I still think that we should go BPA- within reason- and fill needs in rds 2-4. LB,S, NT- I doubt that we go CB in rd. 1- Goodman playing better and we do have Jason Allen. I'm looking forward to seeing Terrence Cody and the Alabama C. I saw that the Alabama C was compared to Dwight Stephenson- high praise indeed.

    WALKING A FINE LINE - al.com
     
  4. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    But you both write very good, interesting "long winded crap". :up:
     
    put-me-in-coach and Conuficus like this.
  5. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I still say we go defensive minded. I've heard around here that some think if Bill had his way he would have chosen Chris Long. I obviously can't tell you who he would have chosen but I think it would have been someone on the line or a linebacker just from the things you've posted and con has sent me.

    There are more LBers up there than there are anything else in the first round. I think the fact that Parcells used to play LBer himself may have something to do with his opinion on choosing them.

    As I've said elsewhere I'd like to see them draft the following:

    NT. If the team doesn't think Soliai is the answer - as far as my chart goes (see sig if interested) he's listed at 6'4'' 344 and only 24 years old. Him being suspended a couple of times for violating team rules stands out to me. There are two players on the list that are heavier than him; Jackson for the Falcons and Kemoeatu for the Panthers and they are listed at 345. Out of the three Soliai is the only player that plays a backup to a 3-4 scheme.

    LBer. If they don't believe Roth is the answer they'll probably pick someone up.

    RG. For insurance purposes. If Don Thomas isn't healthy then we definitely need someone here. At 338 Ndukwe lists among the heavier RGs but there's definitely something that isn't there. There are 6 teams who have RGs who are 30 years of age or older and they could be picking in the draft and might have a higher pick than Miami so it remains to be seen who will be there.

    DB. Bell and Goody are over 30 years of age. I can see them putting youth in here.

    I'm not sure the order of this. The NT/RG positions are the deepest thought out for me because it's the only one I've done research on. The LBer and DBs are on there because A)I like defensive picks B)I think they'll be looking to upgrade Roth C)simply age/talent for the DBs.
     
  6. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Honestly, you're the first I've seen bring that up. And it has NO merit at all.
     
    anlgp likes this.
  7. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    If I remember right you're the one that said it.
     
  8. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007

    Not exactly true. Ireland has stated himself that Parcells gave him a very tight window of opportunity on getting Jake Long signed or "move on". Ireland actually made it pretty clear that Jake was his call and that Parcells had someone else in mind (as to who that was we can only speculate but Chris Long does make a lot of sense). Now here's the funny part: This whole statement was removed from the official transcript on Miamidolphins.com. I'm willing to bet my mom on reading it but it's nowhere to be found now.
     
    anlgp likes this.
  9. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    18,044
    19,676
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    Don't quote me on this, but I believe CK has mentioned this before.
     
    anlgp likes this.
  10. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I looked all over the place in all the threads I could think of (there are a LOT of draft threads).

    I don't know who said it but someone did. That's kinda a moot point anyway.

    I guess if that's the one thing you picked to take apart from what I posted the rest of it was alright? :up:
     
  11. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007

    Don't quote me on this either but I believe CK and me actually discussed this ... or was it the two of us, Con, in the thread we agreed on Ireland getting to call way more shots than we expected?
     
    anlgp likes this.
  12. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I think that's it vendigo

    I do remember con posting shortly after it.
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,631
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I was under the impression that the same general rumor source that had them negotiating with Long pre-draft had them considering Gholston as the second option.
     
  14. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    18,044
    19,676
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    I have heard both names mentioned, and I just put it down to the notion that OLB was next position on the list.

    Vendigo we discussed that Ireland had a great deal more say in the matter of the draft in general. I do believe CK was involved as well earlier in the same thread, and we both commented on it.
     
  15. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007

    As I said, I'm not talking about a rumor here but about a statement by Ireland himself that actually was on the Dolphins official website but obviously got edited in the meantime. I don't know who Parcells had in mind instead of Jake Long but Chris seems like the obvious candidate to me.
     
  16. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    If you believe in what Mike Lombardi says he had this to say at one point and time:

    EDIT:

    Regardless of prior rumors and facts that may or may not have been said Jake Long was the pick. Anyway back to your regularly scheduled program. I just didn't want everyone to think I was crazy making statements about BP and Chris Long.

    I don't know in what order we'd draft - as far as what I posted above, not numerically - but I would think it would depend on who they are more (or less) confident in with who we have that would be where they would pick. I don't know who they're less confident in but whoever it is I think is who gets picked first.. at least on defense ;)
     
  17. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    18,044
    19,676
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    anlgp likes this.
  18. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    There's no page 8 :lol:
     
  19. put-me-in-coach

    put-me-in-coach Season Ticket Holder

    226
    166
    43
    Nov 24, 2007
    Chicago
    If my theory is right, it would also mean that they believe that all Gaurds, TE's, Safeties, Runningbacks, and non core positions are to only be drafted later on in the draft. I find that interesting.

    I do think its very telling that he drafts a OLB 50% of the time but I'm proposing that in the 1st round his first pick will be a core position 100% of the time.

    Conuficus we should write a book together it would be huge, our dediication would be 79 pages long with graphs.
     
  20. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Write the book I'll read it. I'm going through that thread trying to find where it was said I know it's in there haha.
     
  21. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    18,044
    19,676
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    The link I provided takes me right to page 8, so I don't know why you couldn't find it.
     
  22. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    :huh: it only takes me to six.
     
  23. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Your memory's playing tricks on you my man.
     
  24. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    I think the window of opportunity was more of a threat to the Jake Long people than anything else. Now I'm not denying that Bill wasn't going to be a big Chris Long fan, but I'm also not signing off of anything that says Parcells was choosing Chris Long had he had his own way.
     
  25. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007

    As I said, I clearly remember Ireland stating "he [Parcells] gave us a very tight window of opportunity to geat a deal done with Jake or move on" - I even quoted that sentence in the German board I frequent. Unfortunately, they took it out of the transcript, so I got nothing to offer but my word.

    As for Chris being that guy they would've moved on to I can't say of course. Just seems the most likely candidate.

    The way I see this in regard to Ireland's statement and the fact that he did call indeed all the major shots (at least that's what he says) is that while Parcells might not have prefered Jake, he trusts Ireland enough to make the calls and plays more of an advisory role than many originally thought.
     

Share This Page