Satele cutting it this year?

We've been talking on this board all year about Satele being manhandled by NTs like Wilfork...today was just another example. Whether he's just not strong enough to hold his own or if it's technique or whatever, he's lacking. He's not the type of OL this regime wants...I expect them to look long and hard at replacing him in the lineup next season...

 

jim, just about every run blocking scheme that I know of places the responsibility upon the guard to get movement on the nose tackle. And I can't kill a man for being placed in the adverse position of receiving a blow from a 350lb man as he drops in pass protection.

If you look around the league (specifically Jets/Patriots one week ago) you wil other nose tackles dominating versus other centers. You do not have to stop at the Jets and Patriots nose tackles to see dominance. You can look at Pittsburgh and San Diego. They too have dominate nose tackles. What you are seeing is THE requirement to run an odd front defense. Without the nose, the 34 just doesn't go. That position must command a double team. The reason why we were an even front for the majority part of last year was that we didn't have one.

 

What a difference a year makes....he was lauded as the "golden child" of the Cam Cameron draft.....if he goes, and John Beck as expected, how many Cameron draft choices are left on the team ?

It will have to considered just another failed Miami Dolphins draft, the 7th in a row.

 

Did you see Kris Jenkins throwing Dan Koppen around last week? Now that was brutal.

Here is pretty much the only things you can assess in Satele's line play from yesterday:

When we run at Vince Wilfork, the offensive guard had to provide the movement. Satele's job should have been to get him upright. Anything other than that was a coaching snafu. By that I mean the plan sucked.

When we run away from Vince Wilfork, Satele's job would have been simply to cut him off from the play.

When we pass with Vince Wilfork in the game, we had to move the pocket or play action. Moving the pocket allows Satele (or the guard) to use athletism versus Wilfork. Play action slows the bull rush.

I've seen more than one killing Satele for his play yesterday. The thing is that he (nor any other center) should never be left alone versus Vince Wilfork. For the better part of the game yesterday we did a fine job scheming around the interior of their defense. But their come a time in the fourth quarter where we could not scheme around Wilfork. The game plan had to be abandoned in a desperate attempt to score points. When big plays are needed, you need guys to step up to a challenge. The problem with Wilfork (and other dominant NT) is that the challenge never goes away. When you abandon the game plan, he exposes what you PLANNED to avoid for the better part of three quarters. It is then that the player aligned in front of him becomes the fall guy.

People can understand the situation when Moss is exposing a defensive back with a one on one situation. They throw the coach under the bus for that matchup. What you have to understand is that it is the same situation with Vince Wilfork (just in a different area of the field). But before we throw the coaches under the bus for any matchup, we have to remember that they avoided Wilfork for a large portion of the game. He is the reason you saw very little dive or ISO yesterday and for that the coaching staff should be commended. Instead when browsing around the board, you find questions about our running backs number of carries.

 

Good luck finding better.

I honestly can't name one center in the league today who can handle a good NT 1 on 1. It's why we were so proud of Satele winning his previous 3 matches against Wilfork. It just doesn't happen.

Look at Jason Ferguson. How often does he get single teamed? 4 maybe 5 plays of a game?

Plus Satele is playing with a brace. I fully expect to hear him go under the knife after the season.

 

I'm with ya.....

The thing is that I stay away from assessing the interior of the offensive line. That is because there are too many "if" in the equation for anyone to assess their play other than the staff.

If the back was suppose to run there.

If the protection was called correctly.

If the play call was made in preperation for a different front.

If the secondary was blitzing.

If, if, if.........

The point is that to fully assess the play, you must know the play call. You must know the player's assignment and you must know the players assignment beside him. I have always viewed it as kind of futile to guess. Therefore when the Phins offense is on the field, I watch the football or the opposition's defense.

 

i think its a shoulder brace, not knee

 

I think we as fans need to truly sit down and look at what the FO was trying to accomplish in building the O -line. Dan Henning uses pulling G's so we went out and paid one. Satele due to short arms, lack of playing in a running style offense and just general style of play isn't a very physical C. Centers usually aren't that physical, but some are more passive than others. Satele is and always will be about quickness and using position and speed to handle his man across from him. The better the angle the scheme creates for him the better.

Donald Thomas was to be the RG, who typically is the stronger, more physical of the two G's along the line. Hence why they play the strong side of the O-line. Many times a DT or NT is lined up in front or is shading the RG in an effort to occupy more than one blocker on the strong side of the offense. Donald Thomas was a physical presence at RG, one whose punch and ability to bang with the big boys one on one would have left Satele to do what? Help as needed, and get to the second level where he can use his athleticism to track down smaller players in the open field. Not having a G like Thomas means that Satele must help on DT's more than he would have, and when he does the DT isn't looking to the G as much right away as he is used to seeing the C on him more often than not, and will adjust his play accordingly, or his defensive coach will. If the C has to help more, than cover one of his shoulders and slow his effectiveness, by making him account for the DT right away.

Neither Ndukwe nor Alleman is the answer at G, and this may be causing Satele to help more, and it may be dictating the play calls we see more than people think. If you have a weakness along the O-line you play away from it, not towards it. As much as I think Satele isn't holding his blocks very well, and allowing people to shed him more than last year I think what he is asked to do within the offense as a whole, after the loss of Donald Thomas is not his forte. Last year the offensive scheme called for creating much more angles up front when attacking the defensive line. Cam's offense features a great deal more misdirection than Dan Henning's. The way the play is drawn up in Cam's offense creates the angles, in Henning's the player must make the attack the defense much more head on. The Dolphins didn't run many iso or dive plays last year as compared with what we see this year, and that matters as well.

Satele may be able to succeed in this offense, but only if he has someone next to him to do the heavy lifting - block DT's one on one more leaving Satele free to roam much more than he is currently allowed. Last week against the Raiders, Ndukwe handled the DT much better on his own, and Satele was free to get to the second level, and the Dolphins saw some bigger gains in the run game. I would be shocked to see when Satele was allowed to get to the second level in this game against the Pats. The few times we did get people to the second level we saw some decent gains, like the 7 yard gain in the first quarter I believe. Smiley got to Mayo and the hole was there.

 

i feel confident that a healthy donald thomas is the panacea for this o-line

 

I'm still keeping an eye on Antoine Caldwell out of Alabama. If Satele is cut/traded, whatever; that leaves us Ginn, Beck, Soliai, and Fields - yuck!

 

Great Post man. I completely agree. A healthy Donald Thomas next year should do wonders for this offensive Line.

But, would you be open to the idea of drafting a center(Caldwell?), and letting Thomas, Satele, and Murphy battle it out for the RG position?

 

After yesterday, I don't want one pick spent on offense.......


im only half-joking....

 

Honestly, I've said before that I don't think Satele fits the scheme very well, and that he may be removed. I personally like Antoine Caldwell and A.Q. Shipley. But asking a guy who we all acknowledge isn't very good at being an in line blocker and asking him to play G is a no no IMO. If he can't handle it now why would be able to handle then, when it is his job to do the heavy lifting as I put it? Chances are if he is dealt, he goes to Philly, Houston, etc. teams where they don't rely on inline blocking to be their trademark. Satele would be more successful over the long haul in a system like that.

I've also questioned the brace, early in the season, and have said that we need to see if he goes under the knife. The brace is the same as Smiley's. If he is injured then I will give him a reprieve for next year, but I still see this regime bringing in a C soon in some capacity.

 

I have to ask a question.. if Satele handled wilfork the first three times they went at it, what happened this time? I hope he is dinged.

 

I think it's more like:

"We won and everybody played great."






"We lost and everybody sucks."

 

Satele played as bad a game as you could have. It diidn't help that the announcers were throbing on Vince either. They really focused on how bad Satele was playing him.

 

Sintim won't wow you. But, at the end of the day he's one of those players that makes you go "he had how many tackles?" simply because he is steady. He's one of those kind of players - not fancy or flashy, but just keeps showing up in stats.

Peria Jerry has been walking under the radar for a while to be honest. Ole Miss doesn't get much national attention and most gets paid to the glamor job of DE. Against Alabama Jerry was unreal, Hardy went out of the game and Jerry's play rose to the occasion. Very hard to block Jerry one on one. He can get a little high sometimes which will make him lose leverage. He can also take himself out of plays, but for the most part he can handle the double, split it and slide down the line very well. He also has the power to hunker down and help clog up the middle. Jerry also has very good hands, and a solid base allowing him to stack and shed if asked.

By the way did anyone happen to see my darkhorse for an OLB spot play last night?

I have mentioned Julius Williams before, and said Cody Brown gets the pub but Williams is infinitely better. If anyone watched the UConn game last night they may have noticed a #45 showing a great first step, good hustle and a variety of moves. He also is one of the strongest players on the team. Keep an eye on him, right now he is rated in the 6-7th round, and that is way too low. When the testing comes up and they really watch tape of this kid, I think you'll see his name as a guy to watch from all of the talking heads.

 

The point is that you need someone like Sintim at the SOLB spot though to keep the running game under control as Roth has done most of the year, while providing pressure that Roth has failed to bring. You don't need a Joey Porter at LOLB. You need more of an Adalius Thomas presence.

 

Sure I understand, but the LOLB is integral in the defense. You can go sign a decent free safety, a decent #2 WR, and Satele can improve still. He's a second year man after all.

If you don't get a LOLB, you will never see the kind of pressure necessary to make this team elite.

 

The secondary actually played fairly well yesterday given the talent they lined up against. But the fact I can distinctly remember when we actually got to Cassel, means there weren't enough plays for them to blend in. The amount of time he had to throw yesterday was sick. Charlie Anderson is a guy who applies just enough pressure for an OT to notice, but rarely gets the job done, and Roth is Roth. Another rusher will make this defense infinitely better, and will in turn help the offense.

 

Agree with Confucious. Another pass rusher will take this defense to another level. Maybe even two Pass rushers. In the draft, if we can pick Clint Sintim in round one, then follow it up with Larry English in round 2, watch out.

 

People need to remember that the FO changes every other year and they draft players to fit THEIR scheme.

That's the main reason why a lot of players don't pan out and that's probably why Satele won't pan out in Miami.

 

I caught last nights UConn - USF game. Was quite impressed by Julius Williams. He has good burst and quickness. Has a good motor as well. Has some versatility, playing OLB, both End spots and DT at times. I think he can make the transition to OLB even though to me, his hips are a little stiff. I agree that 6-7 is low for him. I kept an eye on him and Cody Brown as well. Brown is a talented player but he spends half of the time watching the ball carriers ala Brian Orakpo. I thought that Brown didn't do a good job of stepping over trash, I recall a play where he tried to step over a Guard at his legs and ended up tripping on himself.

William Beatty against George Selvie was a good match up as well. Saw nothing new from Selvie other than he goes to an inside spin but its ineffective once the Tackle is buckled down and set. Tyrone McKenzie is a guy that stands out on USF. Too small for our system because I don't think he sheds well but he's a hard worker, always around the ball and racks up tackles. Not a bad blitzer either, doesn't have the numerous pass rush moves but has a nose for making the play.

 

Yeah his hips are a little tight, but I think that may from being a tightly wound guy, he's more straight line -ish, but for lower in the draft he's a steal. Your point on Brown I've harped on before and your comparison regarding that facet of his game is spot on. Brown has more overall athletic talent, but doesn't display it nearly as much as Williams.

Williams may not ever get loose hips, but he has talents that can make up for it in droves.

By the way, did you see #64 last night. He's a nice candidate for a RT spot. William Beatty is his name.

 

Possibly. He does a good job of shedding with his power. He's a specimen out there, you can see it when he's standing upright. I think Orakpo is overrated, just my opinion, and I'm not sure if he's any better than Julius Williams. It may be because of what he did against Phil Loadholt but I think he gets the publicity due to being at Texas, unlike Williams whose at UCONN.

Absolutely agree. That will stand out when April rolls around.

Yep, check out the edit. You got to my post quicker than I anticipated lol. He did a good job on Selvie last night. Considering how quick of a first step Selvie has, I thought he did a good job of keeping him out of the pocket. Moved his feet well and once he got his hands on Selvie, Selvie was just about done as he struggles shedding. Whenever Selvie did beat him off the edge, I thought Beatty did a good job of riding him with his hands and forcing him wide.

 

Also, wanted to add, I was impressed by one particular play when Julius Williams lined up on the interior. He was doubled at the snap, the Center chipped him, knocking him off balance then Williams slapped the RG across the helmet and blew by him for the sack.

 

Keeps you on your toes.

I'd agree about Williams. Loadholt has no lateral agility and should be playing G in the pros. He'd get eaten alive on the edge.

 

IMHO, I dont see Satele here long.

The guy is just not really what the Trifecta looks for.

Whether it be the draft, or something else, look for him to be replaced within the next year or two.

The Trifecta will look for improvement at that spot along with a much better insurance policy at guard with this years troubles.

I make it akin to Rex Hadnot. The guy is decent and plays good but not really what these guys look for.

 

I would think Loadholt will be too tall for a G, no?

 

Well he is definitely too slow to be a OT in the NFL. You are getting more OT's getting kicked inside to play G so it isn't as much an issue as you may think. People like Robert Gallery made the transition very well and he is quite tall too. Loadholt will not make it at OT in the NFL, I just can't see it.

 

Good point on Gallery. I've heard Loadholt may be in the 6'9 range and I think that may be too tall. I've seen him listed at 6'8 though. Branden Albert was an OG and ended up being kicked out to LT. He's identical height to Gallery. Loadholt's position in the NFL is going to be something to keep an eye on.

 

Whoever is crazy enough to put him out at tackle will reap the rewards of that. Let me put it this way, he made Brian Orakpo look like an all-world player, and we both know that not to be true. The reason Loadholt is successful in college is because uses his size to his advantage which works in college, and that Bradford usually has the ball out pretty quickly regardless of the play call.

 

I don't disagree at all with you Con, I'm on board with Loadholt not being a Tackle. The problem I have with him is that I'm not quite sure he fits in at Guard either. This guy has the size of a Tackle and possibly the skills of a Guard. Some are looking at him as a second round pick and I have to wonder why? Wouldn't shock me one bit if he slips further down than expected.

 

Many people are afraid to go against the norm even when things are pretty obvious. It creates a great deal of controversy and a great many don't like it. Some people call a spade a spade. Also there is the where does he play syndrome. He went to this school so he must be good. That way of thinking died in the '80's for most teams but draft stuff is still very much like that. Its like Calais Campbell last year, most had him #1 overall early on, regardless of the fact that he was an underachiever. It is all over the place, and it drives me nuts to be honest.

Take a guy like Phillip Hunt, a guy many have no idea who or what he is. Most have him rated very low, like in 6-7 range. Watch him play and tell me he looks like he belongs that low. He needs to work on his technique, but his first step is unreal. You think Larry English is fast off the edge, watch a Houston game #53. This guy is an animal in waiting if he can learn to use his hands better. He also needs a bit better base but that can be made too. Unteachable first step, and a guy that stands out to me much more than a guy like Matt Shaughnessy from Wisconsin who is rated way too high by the majority. Hunt has 10 sacks by the way.