Even the Giants struggled some against the Redskins... And you are wrong about the amount of time it takes to turn a club around... It just depends. The Panthers were in the SuperBowl just 2 seasons after a 1-15 campaign.. I am not quite sure why you are so down on this team and organization after a 1 point loss to an opponent that has been a thorn in our sides for years... Losses happen. Even to GREAT teams. The Dolphins are just good right now, but if with another good draft and offseason, this team will definately be in the division race next season.. There is really no reason to think that we can't. We have most of the very important positions filled - notably QB, RB, OL, and D-Line. Shore up the secondary, get a playmaker at WR, and we are definately in the hunt. I think the Pats are on the downswing, the Jets will be done when Favre is gone, and the Bills, well, I am not exactly sold, but we will see. The AFC East is ANYONE's division next year. Why not us?
This has nothing to do with you not drinking the kool aid. The reason that people are getting on your case is because you are making wide sweeping generalizations and acting as if they are statements of fact, but you didn't offer up any tangible evidence to support your claims. Moreover, since we are sure that you cannot predict the future, it's silly to assert that what you are saying is definitely going to happen. Nobody likes that. Bring some facts to support your assertions and stop acting as if your predictions (that's what they are) are assured of coming to fruition.
Dude, how many down the field catches have been made by this team ? We didn't have a catch by a WR until the 4th qtr today. Didn't you see that ? If we had been able to do just that one thing, we'd have an offense the defenses have to respect. As it is, they bunch up the front and make our running game harder than it should be because they don't respect Ginn, Cammy, or any of the other WR's. Am I the only one that see this and that this alone can't be fixed overnight but takes 2-3 years to fix ? You have to get recievers in that you can trust, and that they then need to get chemistry with the QB. Pennington is only here this year and next year. That means when Henne takes over (we assume) in 2010, he has to have time to get chemistry with the recievers and it sets us back all over again.
You're worried about 2010? I'm worried about the Ravens at home next week. Lots of pick ups and changes before and up to 2010. I didn't read the whole thread, but relax, PMZQ, and have some faith in what you have absolutely no control over.
Seth, you actually made my point. Many people here on the board are CONVINCED that next year we will definately be in the playoffs, not just challenge for a spot but actually be in a game, playing one. They are blinded to just how bad the talent is on this team right now. Its headed in the right direction for sure, but it could only have gone up. The Great Satan deserted us because he knew it would be very hard work, and much longer than he thought it would originally be to get us back to a winning program. He told his agent to get him out of Dodge, and the agent felt out the situation in Tuscaloosa and he was gone in a flash. He saw promise in Alabama, he didn't see here. I am a fan, and I bleed orange and aqua, God knows I've spent time, money and a lot of nervous hours watching them for the last 40 years. Rarely have teams as bad as the Dolphins have been the last couple of years, made as dramatic a turnaround. The ones like the Rams in 2000, or New Orleans in 2006 have had the ingrediants already in place, all they needed was the straw to stir the drink. This team still has a dearth of top level talent, the kind that takes you to the next level, and it takes more time than two drafts, and 2 rounds of free agency to fix this mess.
Well we had 2 downfield catches today (one to Cobbs and one to Brown) as well as a 17-yard strike to David Martin that setup Williams' touchdown score and a nice catch and run by Camarillo. As for your rant about 2-3 years and receivers you can trust, etc...it's filled with assumptions that are not based on facts (again). 1) You do not need 2-3 years to upgrade the wide receiver position. That can happen in one offseason 2) You can't be sure that Camarillo won't continue to develop and that Ginn won't take big strides later in the season or next year 3) The passing game does not have to go through the wide receiver position. Tight end and running back contributions can also be key 4) You can't be sure that Pennington will only be here through next year Again, you need to stop basing your opinions and assertions on empty assumptions.
the reason we don't see a receiver make downfield catches is because pennington can't throw the ball downfield!!the reason they don't respect our deep threats is because even though our receivers suck, our quarterback CANNOT throw the ball downfield.
Nobody is convinced of anything. This is just another prime example of imagining statements and posts that NEVER happened. Rather than just take the lump that we got beat by a team that made great plays you've got to rewrite history and argue a point that was never made by anybody. Fans were just enjoying the couple of wins we had. That is all. Nobody guaranteed playoffs. Sure some fans, myself included, had to be excited at the fact that playoffs were, ARE, possible, but nobody thinks it's a guarantee this year, next year or any year. But if it makes you feel better to take the "See I told you we suck" stance then go ahead. Whatever takes the sting out of it. But your negativity is disheartening and you should not expect it to be warmly received.
There are not more than 7 or 8 players on our team, that would start on any of the teams that make the playoffs this year. Other than Ronnie Brown, Jake Long, possibly Vernon Carey and Vonnie Holliday, you name me someone that starts. Pennington maybe is better than some QB's in the league but in reality he is very mediocre. His deficiencies are being masked adequately right now, but each week, its more and more apparent, his lack of arm strength and that of a vertical passing game is hurting us. The Wildcat was less effective today than ever, and our running game had to work harder than ever to get those yards we gained. It was a struggle offensively most of the day. Take away the two long TD plays and our offense, was OFFENSIVE today. A team that gets 4 turnovers should win easily, yet the Dolphins lost a game that they once again had more turnovers than their opposition. That means we are many more than 15-20 players away. We have no depth at all. So much so even our 2nd tier players would not make most teams rosters. The talent on this team is that bad. If the injury bug hits us, we are in really deep doo-doo. We will have to agree to disagree on this, because it seems I am just considered "out there" on this one. I just see things not as rosy as most here. I want to cheerlead, but only when I see "good lookin' gals" on our sideline, not the "fat ugly broads" I see now......if you get my drift. Until then, I will remain disdainfully optimistic that we will be a playoff team next year. I think its more likely in 2010 or 2011.
Please, you are not considered out there, you are considered a knee jerker after a 1 point loss with 3 seconds left in the game.
I can see us only being a favorite to win in two games - maybe - at home against the Rams, and at KC. I think we'll win one of those, and win one we shouldn't and end up with 4 wins. If we get lucky we might steal one with the Ravens or San Francisco. That would be 5 wins. Do we play the NFC North or South next year ? Either way, its not an easy task. If its the North, historically we only have had our way with Detroit, the rest have been trouble. If its the South, you have 4 good teams, with Atlanta seemingly making a resurgance this year, which may just carry over to next year. I think that assuming we'll have 10 wins and a playoff spot next year as assinine as it can get. 7-9 or 8-8 yes, but 10 wins and playoff spot. I can't see it.
next year we play... Colts, Texans, Saints, Bucs, AFC North team in the same spot as us in the standings at home. Jaguars, Titans, Panthers, Falcons, AFC West team in the same spot as us in the standings on the road. And I think we're gonna win more than 5 games this year.
<SIGH> I made the post because that's what I believe, and its not embarassing but what I percieve as the reality of our situation. If perhaps others will take off the aqua and orange glasses we could have real debates over how and what should or could be done to make the team better for the future. Instead we see nothing but "rah-rah well we are really not that bad, and we'll win a playoff spot next year" threads all over the board. Those are the people that should be embarassed
Its hard to see anything past the next opponent, let alone into the playoffs, yet our destiny nevertheless gets prophesized, theorized, rationalized, and ultimately realized, in a matter of two games. I don't know how realistic your original post is, but I think in telling you "your out there", and explaining how they're far better than YOU think, has helped some of us realize once again how we have improved, and more importantly get past todays loss. So great post!
Now you're just making stuff up. How long did it take Brady to develop "chemistry" with Moss? With Welker? A quarter? How long did it take Marino to develop chemistry with Duper? With Clayton? Matt Ryan is a rookie. What's with all that chemistry he has with his receivers? Re this, we have 7-8 guys who could start for a playoff team, that's just silly. 12 teams (almost 40% of the league) go to the playoffs! Most playoff teams have a a couple of great players, some good players, and lots of average players. Even on the 2007 Patriots, average players were much more common than great ones. There is no team that is made up of all great players. There is no team that is made up of all good players. Short careers and free agency see to that. Most players in the league are interchangeable. We have a lot of average players that could be interchanged with a playoff team's average players and no one would know the difference.
The funny part about this post is that, again, you failed to do a minute or two of research before making your assertions. The Dolphins are already favored by 3 against the Ravens next week.
You really believe we'll contend next year ? We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Bro this team has so many holes it cannot be fixed that quickly. Other teams, have made quicker turnarounds because they had many pieces already in place, but this team hasn't had a decent draft in nearly a decade until this year !!!! That means the foundation is so shaky it almost crumbled in on itself in historic proportions last year. If not for the boneheaded coaching by Brian Bilick, we'd have been worse than the infamous 1976 Bucs. The team has made strides for sure, but you shouldn't be fooled by the progress we've made this year, to think we should be contenders for a playoff spot, much more a Division Title. That will not happen for at least 2 more years. Tom Brady is not about to give up his throne that easily.
I sure hope we all leave our aqua and orange colored glasses on and continue to discuss the positive things about THIS years team. Life is short. I want to think about this years team and not worry about 2010 or 2011. I think you're going to be really ashamed of this thread tomorrow and as the season progresses. After every win Miami gets this year (and I think it will be more than the 2 or 3 more you predict) I hope you take a look back at this and realize you shouldn't overreact after a loss.
I am doing no more wide sweeping generalizing than many of my fellow posters who are predicting we will make the playoffs next year. I just happen to be the lone voice, shouting a contrairian view. I never said they were fact, they are my opinions, just as the others are not stating any facts, but their opinions, and that is all they are. I believe this team is much farther away from the playoffs than many of the posters on this board. I could be wrong, or they could be wrong. I do resent the fellow who suggested I go root for another team. He obviously doesn't understand the nature of debate, or message boards like this. I was hurt by that, as I am as much a Miami Dolphin fan as you will ever find. Today's loss was much more like 2007, than it is about our future, and that is what prompted me to post this thread. It showed me we still have not progressed as much as we thought we had. They still are not as mentally tough as they need to be, nor are they talented enough yet.
You completely ignored the point of my post. Stop making assertions without doing the proper research to support your claims. Or... Continue doing that and deal with observers that call you out on it. P.S. Just because overly optimistic posters do something doesn't mean that you should do the same thing with your overly pessimistic rants.
Kevin, I read this whole thread again and I can't figure out, for the life of me, why your so down on this team. I really can't figure it out. Sure, we have a few weaknesses but so does every other team. I think that this team is a good one, despite it rebuilding. I'm still expecting six wins but these types of games, such as the one we witnessed today, are going to happen because of the weaknesses we have. I really think that we have three weaknesses on this team and they are secondary, depth and pass catchers. I know that these members of this board are not the only ones that are high on this team. I sit here and watch ESPN as well as NFLN and they are saying the Dolphins are actually a "good" team that many don't realize. Guys like Mike Ditka were saying good things about the team and saying that the league will soon realize that this team is actually good and they will be competitive. We had some problems in the beginning of the season such as penalties but they have been corrected. This coaching staff knows what its doing as well as the front office. I remember that you had several questions about this team as soon as Parcells was brought in. I remember you said this team was no different than the 1-15 team in the week one game thread against the Jets. I know your not high on this team and I know you have questions about this team but I can't figure out why. I'm starting to come to the point that you don't want to accept this team is improving. I know your a fan for X amount of years but this team is actually improving and I think many people, like you, may be scared of believing in it due to what has transpired in the last decade.
I think y'all are missing the whole point, I am not worried about next week, or the week after that, or about 2009. I don't believe the team will be worth worrying about until at least 2011. If they are still losing by then, its time to be upset. During the next two years I can sit back and relax and watch them grow, WITHOUT THE EXPECTATIONS SOME HERE HAVE.
Assuming you're referring to me. I'm sure you are a big Dolphins fan, but when you overreact to a tough loss and post stuff like you embarrass yourself and the team you claim to love. You can point out weaknesses and predict future success or lack thereof without making the above type statements.
These posts are really starting to get out of hand. I can understand being pessmistic but what you are saying is simply ridiculous. They have been in all of their games this season outside of one during a rebuilding year and yet they are still another 3 years away from contending?
Hugo I have great respect for your columns, but dare I say, I am entitled to my opinion. Have you said the same thing to those that think the world of the Miami Dolphins is just all rosy & peachy keen for next year ? I will be watching for your condecending reprimands of their posts in the future.
PMZQ Did you enjoy the game at all? I did , it was a great game. I think you should love the fight and stop worrying about the purse or the " payoff ".
I don't see the point in saying all of that unless it's for attention. Sorry if that isn't the case at all, but it really seems that way. The title really struck me as the main reason for my speculation. You're definitely not the only one to be disappointed or "not wearing the aqua shades." I think this site has a very fair number of posters who are speculative of this team. I believe that the difference is that the majority of them just don't make a whole thread for their negativity. Fact is (looking at the numbers) that this team has improved DRASTICALLY in many areas. Obviously, the whole team isn't completely turned around in every area. Thinking that we would be the direct opposite of last year is just ludacris. I'm not being overly optomistic, but I don't see how are recent improvements can't be looked at as encouraging. The fact that we've made such big leaps, so soon, would lead most people to believe that turning this team around will not take as long as some initially thought (3-4 years).
PMZQ - while I don't disagree about the fact that we need a better overall secondary and could use a true #1 WR; I see misuse of our personnel and a lack of aggressiveness as just as much of a problem. You can't get a winning attitude by losing. I feel team chemistry has as much to do with winning as having a stud WR. We have now played 5 full games, 20 quarters, and out of that we have been aggressive in only 6 of them; plus two plays in the first two quarters today. During those 6 quarters we are 4/5 in 4th down situations, yet today we punted twice rather than go for it on 4th and less than 1. Plus don't forget the Defense gave us 4 turnovers today, most HC's would be licking their chops over that one!! We are not yet good enough to play it close to the vest (I hope we never get that way, myself). I saw, in the Wildcat, an ideal way to get aggressive and it worked. The whole team responded by playing hard and winning. There are several things that bother me about todays loss but the most important of these is that lack of aggressiveness. Just maybe Dan H. has out lived his usefulness and the QB coach should become our OC? And thats the view from my back porch.
Thanks for making my point. This team is not as far along as many on the board assume. I believe it will be taking longer than just one more draft and free agent period to fix this mess. Some here have said we'll be winning the division next year, and no one has beat them up as I have been taken to task tonight for just stating my opinion that it will take longer.
Hugo, are you gonna call this guy out for making this statement without backing it up with facts ? He made no case for it, other than his opinion. Isn't he making a generalized sweeping statement ?
Of course I have. I call out positive posters just as quickly as negative ones. It has nothing to do with the tone, it has to do with whether the assertions are based on something factual. The problem that you seem to have is that you think your contrarian opinion entitles you to something. It doesn't. You're welcome to your opinion, as you mentioned, but it's going to get called out (as it has in this thread) when it's not based on anything factual. P.S. I do appreciate that you read my columns and I'll hope you'll take this little piece of advice from someone that's covered football for many years. The NFL is a very dynamic league, so the "take things one game at a time" mentality is crucial. You can't make projections about Week 8, much less 2009 and beyond. There are way too many variables involved. I tell you this as a friend and fellow football enthusiast and I hope that you will consider it and allow it to shape your opinions and assertions in the future.
The big problem is you seem to think you are doing everyone a huge favor by stating your negative opinion of this teams chances this year. The fact of the matter is that even if you end up being right, fans don't want to and don't need to hear this kind of negativity. So you should expect to be "taken to task" for taking this stance. We're Dolphin fans. It's our job to defend this team in good times and bad times. Even from fellow fans like yourself.
Yup, aka give us more facts and less speculation if your going to take that stance. I think it's fair to assume that 95% of our fans were pleasantly suprised with the NE and SD wins. So seeing that our team did that well, why would it be impossible for them to keep looking much improved? Surely our schedule is filled with some more teams that aren't anywhere close to being as good as the 2 that we just beat.
Blitz, I respect your opinion, and I would hope you could respect mine. That is all I ask. I knew it would not be warmly recieved, as bad news generally isn't. That is why I titled the thread Pooper of the Party. But I felt it was something that needed to be said. It seems that this thread has become more about me, than about what is wrong with the team, and that is not what we should be discussing. And Blitz, there are plenty of posts on this message board, that are discussing the chances of making the playoffs, not next year, but this year. Hell, one of them was even in this thread.
I disagree Cal, I just don't believe they are that good yet. You keep believing in them, I want to be proven wrong, but I won't be fooled by two wins into believeing they are that much improved. The AZ game and yesterday's loss are much more indictative of this team, than the two wins were.
I do respect your opinion. All except the one you're expressing in this thread. I have enjoyed a great deal of your posts on this board. I guess that's why I'm kind of surprised by the negativity. Of course we're going to discuss playoff chances. That's the fun of it. I was pointing out that I think there are very few posters, if any, on this board who are CONVINCED we will make the playoffs this year or next. I think we're all just convinced that this team is moving in the right direction and faster than we expected. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you just had a knee jerk reaction to a tough loss and are now trying to logically justify it. To get back to the playoff talk, I hope Miami does make the playoffs this year and every year. That will never change. And if they do, I'm going to have to bump this thread and call you out. I'm sure we'll both be happy about it and have a good laugh if it happens! ...and if not, well THEN we can start thinking about next year.
