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I am the Pooper of the Party

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PMZQ, Oct 12, 2008.

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  1. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Call me what you wish, but I am just not convinced as some around here that this will be a "1 more year deal" and then we "are back".

    We seem to have had some very good picks this year, but who really knows until the 3rd or 4th year how good they really are. That is what people are saying about Ginn, and used to say about J Allen. How is that working out for us, especially the latter ? :shifty:

    It looks to me, to be more than a 2 year rebuilding, but maybe more like 4 or 5. Some of the guys playing now, and are our best players will be gone by then. Henne, unless he is a hidden Marino, will be at least a 3 year project - AFTER this season.....in other words in his 4th as a pro. Ricky Williams, Vernon Carey, Justin Smiley, etc etc will more than likely all be gone, and need to be replaced by then. Same with Ronnie Brown, who is in his prime RIGHT NOW, the window will probably close soon on him as well. Those that think we'll have all these players and just draft players that automatically are pro-bowl worthy, are just deluding yourselves. Its not that easy, or the Detroit Lions, would be, NOT the Detroit Lions, if you get my drift.

    I am not saying that we won't be a good if not great team in 3 years. But I am saying it isn't a given, and that there will be letdowns, heartaches (like today), and some flat out busts. Parcells has some of those in his closet too - didn't he trade a # 1 for Drew Henson ?

    Its tough to say, but if you are a true Dolfan, the bad times are less likely than the past, but not totally out of our future. Remember how many of us who saw Dan Marino's whole career, could have imagined the only chance he would get at a Super Bowl would have been in his 2nd season ? Its a crap shoot, and you must be good, but you also must be lucky, and that is something the Dolphins have been short on for a while now.

    Things are looking up, but they are by no means a certainty in 2009. Or 2010. Or 2011. :sad: I have had some time to get over today's loss, and gain some perspective, and feel that better days are on the horizon, but don't be expecting it to be all good and glory. History tells us it will be more than likely not to happen, than its is to happen.

    P.S. - it does piss me off that we continue to struggle, and Atlanta seems to have found Nirvana so quickly. Its just not fair, but life isn't fair I guess. Parcells must think he took the wrong job. :pity:
     
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  2. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    so we went from playoff contending, to we are doomed and will never make the playoffs again in our life times. Nice to see we aren't knee jerking.
     
  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We were 1-15. With all of atlanta's turmoil, they still won more games and had more talent to start the year. And we're close to matching ATL's record by a few plays. I'm not saying we're good, but sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.

    I said it before, Matt Ryan is a gamer. I never wanted him with our #1, or at all, but I didn't listen to the "matt ryan will be a bust" posts either. It's early, but it'd be funny to go through those threads.
     
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  4. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Please reread my post. :shifty:
     
  5. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    to be honest, i only read the first paragraph, where you said all the good players we have now will be gone and that we may or may not draft any good players in 3 years.
     
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  6. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin sigpicz.blogspot.com

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    There is no such thing as a 4-5 year rebuilding project in the NFL... If things aren't turned around in 3 years, all the coaches are out, unless you are the Detroit Lions...

    A 1 point loss at the hands of a good, desperate team who we have never defeated and everyone is jumping into Biscaine Bay.. It is very interesting to see the fickle nature of sports fans in general. Just take a peak at the comments in blogs and forums around the net and you will see that Sparano is back to being loser head coach, and that we have no players.. Yet, those same people, if we win big next week, will be back to calling Sparano a genius and saying that we have a chance at the division.. This same thing will repeat ad infinitum with every win or loss...

    This was a hard fought game that came down to a couple plays.. This wasnt a hopeless performance like we have seen in years past. Even in this loss, there were a lot of positives.
     
  7. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    They were two games better than us. I understand they have better players than we had, but it still pisses me off that they get better than us, faster. I know its all about patience, but this gets tiring after a while. Its been an eternity since we've been in a playoff game, and the way the team is being rebuilt, its going to be at least 2 more years, if not longer before we make the playoffs.
     
  8. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I would have loved to see this thread after the San Diego game. No disrespect to anyone as I highly respect you all but seriously? One loss and you guys flip. We win and you guys are praising these guys every way possible.
     
  9. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    That's why you should read a whole post before posting a reply.
     
  10. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Im assuming alot of this stuff is coming from frustration. I was sitting in the room, surrounded by family cursing my face off when the cards drove the field and scored... i cursed this team like there was no tomorrow. For finding another way to blow a close one with the texans... However now, after some sweet red wine and about 5 pounds of turkey in me... im calm. and remembering the fact that I knew it was going to be a close game... It was a good game, I just wished itd gone the other way.

    I can kind of see what's being said in the first post though... I really dont think were 3-5 years off though... next year we will be much improved, pushing for a playoff spot, but I think in year 3 of this regime, were there and enjoying the playoff spotlight. Sure some of the guys that are the core of this team may very well be in their prime right now, but thats life. thats football. I have no doubt in my mind the FO will continue finding guys to put in these positions as the years roll on... I dont see the need to panic over this.
     
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  11. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    I read the whole thing.. you are over the top pessimistic.. and it's a choice you are making with bias because there simply isn't evidence to support your we are doomed for five years contentions.
     
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  12. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Alen, I did this in response to all the people saying this just doesn't matter today. But it does matter, and I think it spells out that we aren't as close as some think we are to "being back". I for one was not drinking the kool-aid, and you know that for a fact, as we discussed how worried I was about this game in private messages just a few days ago.

    This team has miles to go, and it will take more than one more draft. It will take 3 or 4 and then we may be fully back. Its not going to be as easy as some people think it is to get back to being a consistant winner. Besides, Parcells gets bored after 3 or so years, and moves on. He will more than likely take Jeff Ireland and possibly other staffers with him when he leaves. Maybe the complete foundation will be in place, but maybe it won't be (and that will be what bores him, and causes him to "move on").
     
  13. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Everything you say there is what I agree with, but you read the first post and that's not what you get out of it or at least I don't. I get the complete opposite.
     
  14. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    These mood swings are reaching FH proportions following wins and losses. This team if it had a secondary which can be fixed in the offseason with big FAs and the draft would probably be 4-1 right now as the Texans and Jets games would have been wins. The AZ game was just one of those games I believe.

    So get a secondary in Miami and this team will be fine. I still think we could push for the playoffs this year (however like I've posted before with this roller coaster team I'm not really sure what will happen but from what I've seen a playoff push is possible).

    This team is far ahead of where I thought they were.
     
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  15. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    i agree, what i got from the post is that we are doomed to be the lions.
     
  16. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin sigpicz.blogspot.com

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    Im pretty sure Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano will be here long after Parcells is gone... That is, if they are successful. Ireland is GM.. There is no higher position for him to take. Parcells CAN'T take him unless we let him.

    I think you need to cool down a bit. It was a tough loss, but this was by no means the iceburg that sunk the Titanic. We were still very competitive today.. It's not like we lost to the RAMS or almost lost to the LIONS or anything... *wink wink Redskins Vikings LOL wink wink*

    The Texans are a much better team than those two teams.
     
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  17. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Everyone knows the loss mattered but a lot of us also realize that this team is no where near as bad as we thought it would be before the season or even after the AZ game.

    This team has came a long way in a short amount of time and the only glaring weak spot I see is the secondary.
     
  18. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    We aren't a year or two away from contention? Are you serious? They are still in contention now. There are 11 games left. I saw nothing today that made me think they can't make a run. They have as good a shot as a lot of teams in the AFC right now.
     
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  19. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Question. Looking at the current state of the team, what tells you that it will take three to four years? What area of the team do you see and say we will need three or four more years to fix up? We certainly agree that there are spots that need to be fixed up on this team, you look at the Secondary and then the lack of a top receiver. Those two flaws stand out on this team. The other part of the team is the depth. Every team has questions, I can guarantee you that.

    The problem I see with fans is that their scared. Scared, I know, sounds crazy? Its true. I really think that fans are afraid to admit that this team is going in the right direction and will be a competitive one in a short time. Why do I think fans are scared? Because each and every one of us have sat here the last seven or so years and have been disappointed in this team after having high hopes.
     
  20. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Exactly. I thought everyone was well aware of Parcells history. He has taken teams and built them up. Its not like we have taken a guy from the booth and gave him the keys to the franchise, like the Lions did with Matt Millen.
     
  21. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Supposedly teams that contend are always strong in every area. It will take Miami five more years to acquire superstars in every unit therefore they are at least five years away from thinking about contending for a wild card playoff spot. Maybe by year seven or eight they'll be back in the division title mix.

    Seriously, there is no way they don't make the playoffs by next season. I'd be shocked.
     
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  22. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    If that is what people are reading into my post, then I guess I must have worded it more poorly than I thought.

    I am not saying that we won't be good next year, but its not a total given we will be. I just think that it will be longer than many here are assuming, and it will be harder than many think it will be. We are another injury to Ronnie Brown from being a worse offense than we were last year. At least we had an experienced Booker at WR last year. This year our "experienced" WR (Wilford) can't even seem to make the field at all. Was he even dressed for today's game ????

    There are players here now, that will have to be replaced by the time this years crop of draftees are "ready" and we'll have to hit bigtime on a couple of drafts, or make better choices than were made this year on higher priced Free Agents. You have to admit a ton of money was wasted this year on McCown & Wilford. But that is going to happen, and its going to happen many more times as its inevitable. Those choices will hinder our growth and it may take a lot longer than some around here expect.

    This is a total from the ground up rebuild, and that takes time, and will be much more painful than many here want to admit it will be.
     
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  23. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    I disagree my friend, as if you can't see there is as big a problem with the WR core as there is with the 2ndary, then you and I are watching an entirely different team. Did you see how Andre Johnson just dominated our team today, and what we need in recievers ? Its not a good thing when your best WR is Greg Camirrillo, no dis on Cammy, but he is not going to be an Andre Johnson game in and game out. he is what he is, a good serviceable guy, but he is generally not going to hit you that HR you need. Last year his TD against Baltimore was a blown coverage by the Ravens, not great effort by Cammy.
     
  24. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    sign Roy Williams in off-season or trade for him. problem solved.
     
  25. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    I guess no one has read what I wrote. I said that if it is soooooo easy to get to the top, the Lions wouldn't be the Lions. Its harder than many here think. I feel it will be taking more time to get back to the top than just next year. Tom Brady will be back, and raring to go. The Bills are a team on the rise, and have a much more solid foundation than we have. People just think those two are gonna roll over and let us get a playoff spot ? Only one of them can win the division, the other gets a wildcard. People really think we'll be better than Pittsburgh or Jax (only one can win a div title) or better than San Diego or Denver (again only one can win a div title) ? We may be close, but we are more than 2 years away from a 10 win season. Maybe, just maybe in year 3 or 4.

    I haven't done a study on this, but its completely possible that Parcells also may have caught a lucky time with each of the other teams he rebuilt. Certainly the AFC East was not a total powerhouse when he took the Pats then the Jets on. And a couple of years ago, the NFC East was not a power either when he took them on.

    Again I am not saying it won't work here, what I am driving at is that its not going to be as easy as some want to believe, and when it doesn't they are the ones that will knee-jerk and complain this staff just can't get it done. Expectations should be kept in perspective I guess it the real point I am trying to make here.
     
  26. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Yes we are watching the same game but it isn't our WR corp losing these games for us. Each and every loss can be blamed solely on the secondary.

    Jets game - the ridiculous 4th and 26 conversion for a TD = the difference in the game.

    Cardinals game - well it was just bad all around for the secondary

    Texans game - great start but then the secondary fell apart just blowing coverages all over the field.

    In each game I can't blame the WR corp or the offense for any loss. I mean when a team scores 28 they should win the game.

    Now do I think we need a better WR corp? Yes I do and I would love to pick up a #1 guy as we lack that right now and Roy Williams would be great.

    The WR corp has been playing at its peak and good enough to win games but I agree to be a great team we need to add a #1 WR but that is it in the WR corp nothing that will take 3-5 years. The secondary and the WR corp could easily be fixed by this time next year. The best thing so far is we have a base in place which we didn't have last year.
     
  27. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Oh, come on. You call your post "I am the pooper of the party" and you're surprised when people treat you like a party-pooper?

    Of course it's not a total given. Nothing is a total given in football or in life.

    No, our offense is much better than last year's because we are much better at the most important position, QB. If both Brown and Pennington get hurt, then get back to me.

    Nope. At this point he looks like a total bust, if you can apply that term to free agents.

    You keep saying that, but what do you mean? Do we have to replace everyone at all 53 roster spots?

    Looking at this team, like a lot of people, I see weaknesses in the defensive secondary and at wide receiver. We probably need 3 new guys in the defensive secondary. At wideout, we need someone like Roy Williams at a minimum, but we probably need another guy too. So, five roster spots where we are very weak.

    Our offensive line, defensive line and linebackers are much better than I expected them to be. We'll need another nose tackle in the next few years, but they doesn't seem to be very difficult to get.

    Our tight ends are maybe slightly above average at best. On the other hand, we have three 1st-round picks in our offensive backfield, including one overall #1 and one overall #2.

    There are a few statements in your first post I just flat-out don't understand. Vernon Carey is 27. Justin Smiley is turning 27 in a few weeks. What makes you think they need to be replaced in a couple of years?

    Re Henne, you say unless he's another Marino he won't be contributing until his 4th year. There are any number of QBs who aren't Dan Marino who nevertheless are very good long before their 4th year. In fact, I would say that, if you're not good by your 4th year, you probably never will be (Vinny Testaverde is an exception, and no doubt there are other exceptions too, but I still think the odds are that QB talent will show itself before the 4th year).

    So, to sum up, if you're saying next year or the year after is not a sure thing, no one disagrees with you. If you're saying we're 53 or even 15-20 players away, I disagree.
     
  28. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Are you aware of the state of the Lions organization during Millen's years?

    When you say "get back to the top," are you talking about Super Bowl bound? Because what I'm talking about is this team being competitive. In a year or so, I think it is fair to say that this team will be a competitor for a possible playoff spot.

    In 2003 and 2004, the Eagles were the dominant team in the NFC East. In '05 and '06, the division had three teams over .500. That was Parcells time in Dallas.

    In Parcells time in NE, in '93 there were three teams with a winning record in the division. In '94, three teams with a winning record in the division. In '95, three teams again with a winning record in the division and then in '96, there were three teams with a winning record including one with a record of .500.

    In Parcells time in New York, there were three teams with a winning record in '97 in the division. In '98, 4 teams with a winning record in the division. In '99, three teams with a winning record with another two at .500.

    I agree with you here Kevin. However, you have to have some type of expectations and frankly, I don't think you have any positive ones on this team. I'm not trying to bash you here but I'm just saying what I see here.
     
  29. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    I agree with alen on this one Kev.
    I want to win every game, but I know that's not possible yet!
    But this loss does not predict the future of the team.
    Last week it was all, best new coach, ronnie, best D, best O etc. etc. Now it's a lot of negativity again. IMO they have come a long way in a fairly short time. The coach is a team guy, he cares. The guys are caring and playing hard. We have hope that we haven't had for a long time.
    On another forum their already calling for Sparanos head etc. I think that's ludicris. Haven't seen that here, hope I don't.
    As usual, I didn't get to see the game, but I'll not believe our guys didn't try. (didn't say anyone thought this) They lost, but I bet they lost as a team, just as they win as a team. As opposed to the way it seemed to be before.
    Call me a homer, I don't care. I just refuse to turn on the guys for a loss after all the struggling they've been through.
    I just can't be pessimistic about them after all the improvement I've seen.
    I'm really beginning to like Tony. Still unsure about bp, probably always will be.
    Not directing all this at you Kev. Just did a quote on your post 'cuz I was there. :tongue2:
     
  30. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I did. And it wasn't that great the second time either. We played a great game and lost. The Texans just made more plays. No reason for this kind of doom and gloom after we lose a close game.
     
  31. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    We lost by one point and it was a high scoring, close game. Relax.
     
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  32. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Dude, they have no shot. NONE, ZERO, ZILCH. We have no WR's we have a Swiss Cheese 2ndary. Trust me, the 2nd time New England sees us it will be a different story.

    This team is not better than last year, but different. The results should have been better than 1-15 last year. They lost 6 games by 3 points, law of averages say you win 3 of those, but they lost them because of a HC & staff that was way in over their heads, and didn't have a commitment to winning or coaching. Capers I can't even explain....he was great in Pittsburgh, but seems to have lost it when he came to Miami.....maybe it was also the talent too.

    This year this team will win 4 or maybe 5 games, which is about what they should have won last year.

    They need at least 2 more drafts and rounds of selective FA signings to be "better" or "in contention". Just because you win some games does not make you "better". Great teams dominate, and right now, the Dolphins aren't a team that can dominate week in and week out.
     
  33. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    By far the worst thing I have EVER read on this board. You should calm down and relax before posting anymore nonsense like this.
     
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  34. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin sigpicz.blogspot.com

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    There is not a team in the ENTIRE league right now that DOMINATES week in and week out.. The Redskins and Cowboys (2 supposed DOMINANT teams) just lost close games the same as us.. I think once you take a step back and reassess your post, you will realize that you are being a serious Chicken Little.
     
  35. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    What's the doom and gloom. I am saying we have a future, its just not right around the corner like some here think it is. There is still a lot of work to be done, and it will take more than 2 drafts to compete with the elite teams in the league. It will be more like 4 or 5 years.

    I'm calmer now than I was earlier because I am accepting our future, and not full of unrealistic grandious 2nd year expectations.
     
  36. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    :confused2: There looks like there could be one.....one that has won 8 games in row including beating a team that was 18-0 last year. But mostly you are right, there is not many DOMINANT teams right now, and hopefully Parcells is here to build a team that is not just happy to be in the playoffs, but A DOMINANT TEAM. That is what I hope his goal is, but it looks like a lot of folks here think making the playoffs is the goal. Its to dominate and become a Super Bowl Champion. That takes more than 2 drafts, and 2 rounds of Free Agency.
     
  37. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Sorry you feel that way, but I am just looking at the reality of the situation and not drinking the kool-aid that this teams problems will be all fixed and fine & dandy next year.
     
  38. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    This is the game P. Thats what we sign up for. Patriots go 18-0 and lose in the SuperBowl. Sometimes your the Pats, sometimes your the Giants. If you're very lucky, you're favorite team wins 4-6 times in your lifetime...if at all. I'm still waiting, but God willing, I have a while to go. There's only been 41 Superbowls man, not everyone can win. If you can't find more meaning and value out of this game, then just winning the big one, you're wasting your time, and will no doubt be let down. We went from embarrassing, to being competitive on any given Sunday. Thats really all I can ask of my team right now. Even when you're the most hyped and best looking team on paper, you're STILL a long shot to win it all. You need to adjust the way you watch this game, and change what defines success. There's just not enough winning to go around all the time. Its simple mathematics.
     
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  39. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    The law of averages says no such thing. The average margin of defeat in the NFL is six points. The law of averages says a fair number of those defeats will be close. In our case 6 of 15 were close. So was our win -- it took a couple of miracles for us to avoid going 0-16, as you'll recall.

    We'll see, but this strikes me as pretty pessimistic. We're playing the NFC West, for God's sake.

    I strongly disagree. If you won one game last year, and "some" games this year, you are better.

    Well, the Dolphins aren't a great team, that's for sure. But I don't see many of those. There was one great team in the NFL last year, and they lost the Superbowl, beaten by a merely "good" team. Could the Phins be a "good" team next year? Absolutely. Could they be a bad team? 'Fraid so. But that's the NFL.
     
  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    What you call looking at reality, I call embarassing yourself and writing off our Dolphins far too early in the season. They are 2-3. They have played great football the past 3 games. It just didn't work out this week. Yeah, it might be another year or two before we make the playoffs. It also MIGHT happen this year. Why say we have no chance at this stage of the season? Do you want to say I told you so IF we don't make the playoffs? If that's your goal then maybe you should pick another team.
     

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