Why not? They are similiar in the fact they both went 1-15 their first year? We're not saying Cameron=Johnson. We're saying, Jimmy Johnson did it, why can't Cameron follow in the same footsteps?
Cam and Randy lacked the vision to look with clarity on our situation, they took 2 out 3 choices that were "projects", granted, down the road good players, we needed a bit more immediate production from those picks. Throw in LBook and that is 3 out of 4 of our first day picks that sat or were designed to have limited rolls.... Perhaps, maybe Cam Cameron is the guy who takes it on the chin for our success down the road, it happens all the time in the NFL, if those 3 players blossom while Cam is fired, no one will remember the chances CamRan took, all of the ESPN noise will go to the Tuna and his fingerlings... Not fair, of course it's not, but we can see Brian Billick being credited for his SB win and he wasn't the one who suffered through the losing to acquire the key players, as a matter of fact, I couldn't even tell you who suffered through the losing to stock the players for Billick to win the SB...funny that..
Cams first season as a head coach was going to be a meaningless year no matter what. He never was building for this season, but next year and the year after. All those who expected to win this year were dreamers. It was time to blow it up and rebuild. Cam was making all the right moves without ticking and turning off the fans like Wayne’s Marlin fiasco. He was doing the right thing. I’m sure nobody saw 1-15 coming, but $#!& happens. So you get over it. You get the first pick, cap friendly, the easiest schedule next season, tweak the assistants and other coaches, and you become the most improved team in 2008. Give Cam another season and he’ll end up looking real good.
Ahhhh, yes, you're exactly right, so, I guess it would be foolish to judge Cam's career on his first season as head coach.
A subtle difference is JJ started primarily rookies a and young players across the board, our team the is season was primarily veterans at the starting spots. If this had been a clear case of rebuilding, IMO there would be much less room to grouse about Cam Cameron.
That's because their isn't any evidence. Hind sight is 20/20 isn't it. I thought it was a good idea to not be so hard in practice with some of the vets. jimmy used to have tough practices all year and we fell apart at the end of the year becuase of it. I think we sould be harder in the begining of the year and start to lighten up near the end of the year so when it's crunch time we don't falter. Trick is getting that far lol. I suppose we should worry aobut that when we get there.
Im judging Cam from what I saw from him on the field. Very questionable play calls, clock management, etc... If we do keep him, we all better pray he learned from his mistakes
Agreed Going into last years draft the offense was the big problem. The defense was ranked 4th in the league and we added Porter, so there was no need to draft defense early, it was considered a strength. Had we neglected offense, this place would have been up in arms.......wait.....it was with all of the "we should have drafted Quinn" threads and posts. If we drafted say......Willis instead of offense (even though Ginn wasn't the popular pick), Cam and Randy would have been ripped into even smaller pieces.
You are aware of the disaster Cameron took over right? There's only so many rookies you can start and there's only so many rookies that deserve to play that can start. Blame the coaches before him that took on all of the older players with their win now attitudes, not Cam. He's at least building for the future, something this team has not had.
Why would have needed immediate production from those players? Were we planning on being a play-off team because of our rookies?? You could if you were a Baltimore fan and trust me, I'll remind you if you forget about Cam.
I'm sure some of that can be attributed to overextending himself with HC and OC duties, which is one of my gripes about Cam.
I feel we may be going in circles now.....Did you happen to catch Jimmy's first year? Do you know if he made mistakes in his first season? Believe me, I do pray that he learns from his mistakes, if he's still around. the only thing I'm arguing is that it's not so cut and dried that Cam is a bad coach or doesn't deserve another year.
With this leading the battle cries.... "He PASSED on a FRANCHISE QB for another EDDIE "LIGHTS OUT" MOORE!!!!! CAMORON!!!"
I wont disagree with you. Im sure it was far too big a role for him. Ill admit when he said he would be the HC and OC I didnt see much of an issue but he proved unable to do both roles. Giving the duties to Mularky though week 14 was a bad decision by Cam IMO after knowing Mularky failed at that just the year before
And this goes to one of the hearts of the matter, were we rebuilding this year or not? The answer to that question will clarify your own question... So you don't his name either?.. I hope folks realize that this was NOT the rebuilding season, next year will be, we were supposed to contend for a play off spot, that is why the team wasn't "Blown up" and that is why we drafted 3 players who were never meant to be starters for us this season..
Didn't he and Randy also fill the roll of VP of Football Operations and personnel and other roles in the club? I agree that he took on too many responsibilities out of the gate and I think that is what hurt him the most. Under the new structure though, he will have only 1 job to focus on and that would be HC... He does deserve another year...
we probably are going in circles, and no, i didnt pay attention to his first year, and I do know the history's of Knoll, Landry, Lombardi and how they started off. Hopefully Cam follows in their footsteps if he is retained, but if he doesnt, its going to another loong 2008
There will be "other" Willis's and Okoye's, if anything this season has brought into focus just how degraded our roster is, we cannot seem to "Coach them up" and so far we haven't hit on really great players in the post Wanny era drafts... That facade is gone, now we can actually rebuild intelligently.
Yeah but Mularky wasn't under a leash by Saban (like Capers was) when he took control of the offense so it was a bit more understanding.
yeah but it showed weakness in Cam and showed that he didnt really know what he was doing for that game... either Cam should have finished the season calling the plays, or let Mularky finish the season calling plays. really what is the point in letting him call plays for 1 game. It told me he didnt know what he was doing... And whats the point in having Mularky call a play to Cam, then Cam call it to Green, then Green to Beck, other than wasting an extra 15 seconds for each playcall.
yes, I don't know but i don't care or follow the ravens enough to make that impotant. The point was that Baltimore fans damn sure know and any Miami fan will damn sure know. This is where we truly disagree....I think the rebuild was indicated by our draft. If we had been built to win now, then we would not have gone out and traded for a QB on his last legs so that we could make sure there was nothing stopping us from moving Beck into the starting role when he was ready. Getting Green here was a move for the future. if we had truly been building this team for the play-offs we would have tried to bring in a QB like matt Shaub or another young vet ready to take over and lead a team into the play-offs and beyond because it would be kinda stupid to sign a guy like that, and then draft a QB to take over for him, after he's been successful. With Green, there was zero danger of that happening. To me, that says it all.
I think that if BP was going to fire Cam, it would have happened by now. The more time that goes by, the more likely it is that Cam will not be fired. If he is I would expect a "different" Cam next year. There is now a presence in the front office who is driving and that will cause everybody to snap-to. We haven't had that before. All the rules have changed and like people here have said, some great coaches have started off just like Cam did this year. Right now I think Cam is staying BUT I also think that BP will insist on an OC. As people on here have also pointed out, DOUBLE DUTY DOESN'T WORK.
I think we should keep Cam. He had our offense doing well when Green and Brown were in there. The defense just was the problem all year long. I think we should at least keep him at OC.
One thing BP could be waiting for is to hire a GM who would then fire Cameron and conduct a search for a new coach. That way BP doesn't look like a liar to the league when he says the GM is going to have final say on coaching and personel matters.
Rebuilding on offence yes, defense no, we had Mueller, Capers and the top five D supposedly returning. I reject your idea that you don’t draft players that need to be developed when rebuilding. That’s when can afford to draft them. If you’re contending, you need the player that will come in and put you over the hump. When rebuilding you have time to develop them, it’s part of the whole rebuilding process. Hence, Joey P being the big acquisition on the D (non-rebuilding) side and three rookies that may or may not start on the O (rebuilding) side. Even acquiring Green was done with the specific intent of helping the younger players to develop. Should we have dealt with the D too? Obviously, and that total misjudgment of the roster was Mueller’s biggest mistake, and the one that got him fired. Should Cam be held responcible for it too? Maybe, but I have a hard time doing so knowing that he wasn’t given the authority to bring his own D guys in to do their own evaluation and run his system, and that he wasn’t given final authority over the roster. He probably should have paid more attention to the D, but he had Capers, making more money than him managing that side. And Mueller who was with the team last year, whose job description specifically put him in charge of personal moves, and should have a good idea of what the D needed. Combine this with the fact that Cam had to totally start from scratch on the O side, and did this with out a offensive coordinator. That last was, IMO, Cams biggest mistake. We will see if it gets him fired. I hope not.
Difference being, during a true "rebuild" guys like Liewinski and Shelton would be gone and rookies or youngsters would be learning those positions at the NFL level. Green was to be the starter all year long if he was healthy, Beck was supposed to sit the entire season and "learn" from Green. And that is not an attack on Beck, it is a allusion to the idea that this was the Rebuilding year. LBook never started until the last game, and we had to trade Chambers for Ginn to entire the lineup. In a true rebuild, we will see all new and younger lineman, instead we have mediocre veterans to try and limp into the playoffs on Green's arm and Ronnie's legs. That situation I put squarely where it belongs: On Wayne H, the lines of Authority and Responsibility were not clear at all, I do know that it was CAm and Randy who were running the Draft, so Cam is not completely blameless.
Younger lineman like who? Mormino was starting until he got hurt, and Lerekererekrker got playing time and some starts. There weren’t a lot of options, which is why we needed to rebuild. Chambers played his way into a second round pick; no one was going to give that up after 06. Also, you don’t need to start players to develop them. I think that is the crux of our disagreement. Cam, with the possible exception of L booker, got his young guys involved as much as possible, when they were ready. Ready being the key. Ginn had a pretty good year, great even when looking at the QB situation. I agree. Hireing Bill P might turn out to be the best move Wayne makes. If Bill desides to fire Cam and start anew, I will understand. I just think Cam can do good things here, most of the negatives I read about him are reactionary and wrong.
Maybe, to be honest Cam is not my cup of tea as a HC, his laid back style and tinkering just rubs me wrong. And Cam has refused to learn from mistakes this year, the mandatory Cleo Lemon "Boneheaded play" by spiking the ball with 1:11 and a TO left in New England was followed up by the Bengals incident. We got the ball with under 2 minutes to go in the 1st half, (1:51 or so) the Bengals had been running free on our Secondary the entire half that game, Cam in his "genius" mode called for 2 passing plays and 1 run, we used a grand total of 31 seconds off the clock, the Bengals took the ball and drove down the field and scored. Cam should have been more mindful of the entire circumstance of Both units and ran the clock down to protect our Defense in that situation, instead he basically gave the Bengals who had all 3 time outs remaining a chance to score before the half. And that to me sums up Cam Cameron the Coach, he can see things through a straw and doesn't grasp the whole picture far too often.
