Fortunately for Dolphins, left tackle position seems set

Nice work. I was under the impression Carey had played pretty well, I don't understand why there are so many calls for him to be pushed back to right tackle. Our o-line could be a real strength on this team if we can add a good player or two.

 

I think Carey's play tailed off in the 2nd half of the season after a very strong start. I think he's much better suited to playing on the right side.

 

Carey didn't play bad at all at left tackle for a good part of the season. But the question is, how much would it improve the line by getting a very good left tackle and putting Carey back on the right side? I'd say A LOT. Carey is more comfortable there, and while he was servicable at LT, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you he'd be more comfortable on the right and an even better player. And getting a "natural" left tackle with the quick feet and sound fundamentals there, it only helps the QB feel more secure from his blind side.

I don't necassarily have a problem with Carey playing there if need be. But if we have an opportunity to upgrade the LT spot and are able to move Carey back to his suited position, then we're all the better for it.

 

I thought he was ok at the left tackle spot. As with every other position on the team if we can upgrade the position we should do so.

 

The only problem I had with Carey was he allowed DE to get too deep in the backfield on pass plays, his run blocking is what it is, he's good at it, L or R side. But he needs to improve his technique a little better on pass protection, but it was a good start for him in his first full year at LT. Now can we get two good Guards and a RT. BTW, did you do a break down on Shelton, I'd be curious about his stats this year.

 

No. I agree with Boomer that Carey's play slipped mightily as the season progressed. He started off surprisingly well and ended up being mediocre. In addition, stats are a tricky thing when it comes to the offensive line. Carey might not have allowed a lot of sacks, but (especially during the 2nd half of the season) was beaten too regularly, causing the QB to hurry his throws or to scramble.

Actually, I think we are far from being set at the left tackle position. For one, superb LT play elevates your offense to a degree that no other position is capeable of - see Cleveland and Joe Thomas for a perfect example. The rule of thumb is the same as it's with quarterbacks: if you don't have a franchise LT, find one. And unfortunately, Vernon isn't a franchise LT. Secondly, Vernon is too good an RT to let him play at a position he's not going to be more than mediocre at. Essentially, getting a "true" LT would elevate our line not only at one position but at two. We would be able to get rid of Shelton and let Carey play the position he dominated in 2006. A guy like Otah at LT, Satele at center and Carey at RT - now that's a scary thought. Pick up a promising guard in the latter rounds and you'll eventually wind up with one of the best lines in the business.

 

Here is the problem with Carey moving to RT, he will be a FA in 2009, he will want Lt money even if we move him back to RT, so if we pick up a LT this year, we more then likely will lose Vern Carey.

Just a thought.

 

Carey does make it look dangerous cause he tends to ride the DE around the back of the QB. However I think the slight drop off in his play can be attributed to the decline of the LG spot. I've been calling for a LG upgrade all season.

Plus even Carey himself said he was at maybe 80% comfortable. Remember he played well in his 2nd season at RT, and it was his 3rd that he got comfortable and played like an All-Pro. I would seriously like to see how he plays next year. Plus it's easier to dig out RT's in the 2nd round then it is LT's. Even if they do grab a LT, have him play RT for a year before making the switch if it's necessary.

 

Carey has too much excess weight for playing left tackle. He lacks stamina and gets sluggish. He'd be a lot better off if he lost about 30 pounds. Otherwise he needs to be a right tackle or guard.

 

You actually believe he is 335? That's his "listed" weight, He's obviously heavier then that. He's got a big gut on him. Those huge guys never have their true weight listed

 

Well put bro.
I dont think Vernon made or broke us playing Left Tackle. He was by far the best we had to plug in there. I dont see us getting any major upgrades through the draft (Jake Long? I doubt it), and probably not FA either...unless some blockbuster goes through, I see Carey still at LT next year.

 

Lol, so even though he is listed at 335, roughly just the right size you want for a left tackle, you say he is not 335?

Do you have anything to back that up with?

 

The problem hasn't been the rush from the outside. It's the interior rush. Teams were getting way too much of a push straight up the gut on the guards and Satele.

 

Absolutely. First of all, when Vernon came to camp he weighed almost 360. If his weight was 315-320 he'd be a lot better off. I have seen him in person and he looks a lot heavier then 335 trust me. Just like Keith Traylor being listed at 337 pounds. Traylor is well over 350.

 

Carey has not been spectacular at left tackle. The real problem is he looked extremely promising at right tackle. So as it stands we are not maximizing the potential of our talent. Finding a true LT and moving Carey back to right would improve both the bookends of our line.

Parcells places primo value on the o-line and the front seven on D. Don't be surprised to see both addressed in FA and the draft.

 

Absolutely. First of all, when Vernon came to camp he weighed almost 360. If his weight was 315-320 he'd be a lot better off. I have seen him in person and he looks a lot heavier then 335 trust me. Just like Keith Traylor being listed at 337 pounds. Traylor is well over 350.

 

I think he need to be a RT

 

I'd attribute that as much to other outside factors as I would Carey himself. The non-linemen blockers were godawful as the season progessed and we cycled more and more runningbacks though.

When Cleo Lemon was out there, he had a tendency to either hold onto the ball, or scramble when unnessicary either right directly into the rushers, or just perfectly so that the linemen could not keep their blocks without holding.

When Beck was out there, teams would blitz alot, and heavy responsibility fell on those non-linemen blockers, many of whom were our runningback by committee who werent particularly good blockers.

Carey should stay at LT. Dont fix what isnt broke. The draft is heavy with 2nd/3rd round RT prospects.

 

If Carey performed very good at RT and satisfactory at LT it isnt rocket science is it? Carey needs to play at his best position and let a bonafide stud at LT (if we can get one) slot into that position.

 

It took some 7-8 years since Richmond Webb to find a Carey at LT. Sure if the team comes across a situation where that would work then by all means. However, that's easier said then done.

And it wasn't a 'satisfactory' job. He played good at LT. Yet we got people talking about bringing in Mr False Start Flozell in at LT.

Bring in a RT in the draft and if the kid projects better at LT then Carey does after a year then make the swap.

Some of you guys gotta remember that it can easily backfire when you fix something that isn't broken.

 

As a whole, I thought our o-line did pretty well. Lemon and Beck had time to throw it for the most part.....yes, there were some occasional breakdowns, but I did not see many lineman jumping offside or committing false starts. Our blocking was decent. I think adding a Guard like Faneca of the Steelers would be nice, and hopefully Parcells will try to bring him in. Carey has done ok for a guy who hasn't been around that long.

 

No he played good at RT. He was never really good at LT...and I'm a Carey fan. He doesn't really have the speed and footwork to deal with elite rushers on the edge. Carey might make a pro-bowl or two on the right side. He is not a pro bowl LT. I do agree that finding a LT is difficult, but should we find one we dramatically improve two positions on our line.

 

He will never make a Pro Bowl at RT because they don't pick RT's to go to the Pro Bowl. It's always LT's that play RT in the Pro Bowl. He's just getting comfortable to playing LT and should play even better there next season.

Keep Carey/Satele where they are as this team is already going to need a new RG, (I don't see Hadnot staying) LG and possibly RT (depending on what they do with Shelton). I'd like this team to actually go into a season without having to redo 4 or all 5 of the positions like the last couple years.

 

Carey isn't having a learning curve issue...he's having a speed/footwork issue. Carey is not a LT. We can dress him up as one, but it's not his natural position. We should just keep things as is because, "its not that bad?" We have to keep redoing the line because we don't have adequate talent and we've been throwing an annual patchwork at it. It's time to get the proper talent and then we can keep the line as is.

 

3 sacks givin up and 1 holding call is 3 sacks and 1 holding call no matter how people want to dress it up.

Fix the interior of the line first and worry about the tackles next year or were just going to have the same crap line for nearly a season again cause they can't stop screwing around with it.

And it's more then "it's not that bad". He played just fine there. Good even. Clearly not the weak link in the line.

Again people the problem with the pass protection was clearly the interior of the line. The guards sucked and Satele wore down as the season went on.

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=rDIqcHBkyJs[/ame] Perfect Example and it's been happening over and over again.

 

I for one was pleasently suprised when i saw the article written on carey!!! but unfortunately i don't agree with it... i thought the combo of carey @ RT and shelton @ RG was better than what the current o-line showed in 2007... i also agree with the poster who stated that carey had problems due to the bad play of the LG!!! if miami does make a trade down in the draft and is able to select ryan clady, who by the way just declared himslef eligible for the 2008 draft!!! moving carey back to the RT spot wouldn't be out of the question.... shelton and carey were a very good combo... a combo that wasn't matched in 2007!!! so, by drafting a guy like clady possibly could do wonders for the o-line in 2008... i like carey alot... but i agree that he was better at RT than LT inspite of the numbers stated in the article about carey's play at LT!!! i am hopeful the team signs him to a long term contract extention soon!!! he deserves it!!!!

 

LTs that are 330 or over that are considered good:

Flozell Adams
William (Tra) Thomas
Walter Jones
Orlando Pace
Bryant McKinnie
Jason Peters
Marcus McNeil
Jonathan Ogden
Khalif Barnes

And guess what? All of the above (except for Barnes) have made the pro bowl. 3-4 of them have a chance at the HOF. The weight is not a factor here. I was very pleased with Vernon's play this year, although it did trail off during the end of the year. I don't think between now and next year we will be able to find a better player to play LT for us than Carey. And if we do move him back to RT, he will not want to come back after 09. He has said many times "find me a place on the line and don't move me again." We drafted this guy to play LT and he's finally doing it and doing it well. If we had won more games I garantee everyone would be kissing his butt just like everyone did with Jamaal Brown last year. You don't hear much about Brown anymore because his team is not winning as much as last year. That's the way it is. Once we start winning and the media starts hyping him up a little, you guys will all apreciate him.

 

Just in case nobody noticed, NFL left tackles aren't exactly growing on trees out there. Most of the problem on the left seem to me to be LG, where our starters were not exactly a brick wall out there, and like a dam, once the water starts to flow.... It is encouraging that the OL played as well as it did considering the line was in flux until the first game. I also think we found some starters we didn't have in '06. Big Rex is a problem for me, he really IMHO, didn't play well enough to warrant the kind of contract he's going to want. So do we overpay and hope for less in the way of penalty's, or let him go and start over. That might be a good column Hugo, whom I enjoy the commentay from.

 

And how much of it is relative to the cast-offs playing beside him?

 

I count 9 LT's last time I checked there were 32 teams, more evidence that Carey did a pretty fair job at LT, and that LT's are hard to come by. He may be more comfortable at RT, but the bigger paydays are on the left. He may not want to move back. I thought he was 1 of 2 'bright spot's' on the OL.

 

no...carey is average and we need a solid guy in that position...then we can move carey back to RT

 

I swear the pigeons are out.

If you guys are looking for OL scapegoats I suggest turning to the real culprits aka Liwienski/Lekkerkerker and everyone's beloved Channing Crowder of offense Mr Hadnot. Combined with Satele hitting a bit of a rookie wall and you got the recipe for crispy exposed OL right up the gut.

 

Of course they are. They are based on actual analysis of his performance which is about as empirical as it gets. The real problem is that you base your argument on exactly one statistic that is widely known to be heavily misleading when it comes to offensive tackles. For starters, the sack statistic doesn't tell you a whole lot about pass protection to begin with. If one LT caused five sacks and two hurries and another one caused two sacks and fifteen hurries, every OL coach will gladly take the first guy. In addition, where's your ostensible empiral basis for the claim that he was a "monster" at run blocking? What was our AVG when running left as opposed to running right or over the middle? Do you know? Did you go to the trouble of collecting said data? If you did and it showed that we did in fact were more successfull running left, then you'd have an argument. And what about screen plays? How many did we run over the left side? How successful where they? The truth is that you have one single, isolated piece of data which on itself tells you next to nothing.

Exactly my point. A great LT elevates the play of the other line positions. A mediocre one adjusts to their level. See Cleveland: They had three mediocre to poor starters besides Thomas and Steinbach who couldn't block anything last year. Enter Thomas and all of a sudden those guys look like pro bowlers. That's what a great LT does to your line.

 

No one's looking for scapegoats. Well, at least not me. Actually, Carey did a much better job than I initially expected. But that doesn't change the fact that we should look for an upgrade on the left side, so that we can move Carey back to the right side and have two pro bowl calibre tackles. This isn't about blame (if it comes to that, the heat is on Saban for bringing in Shelton instead of actually drafting a stud tackle), it's about what's best for the team in the long run. I don't blame Vernon for not being a franchise LT. I (and most scouts) never expected him to be one. He's a great RT with the potential to be one of the best in the league and that's more that can be said about any other Dolphins lineman with the possible exception of Satele.

 

It takes time Van, the problem with these throw away vets is that young guys don't get the experience that they need to get better.

Unfortunately for us, our young guys hang out on the IR, Toledo, Mormino, Alabi, we should see some production out of them next year.

What I would like to see is drafting a RT, move Satele to LG, and resign Hadnot and play Mormino at Center....

 

Hugo, I noticed that on the "comments" section, someone asked about Olineman stats for the year, are there any stats for Reagen Mauia's blocking?

He's being called a "dud" and I don't think that is accurate but would like some stats to see either way..