Season 2024 Playoff Talk.

They are called Herbosexuals.

 

This is so pathetic.

 

Come on man. Just stop. Herbert is just a big arm, no brains for the game. He's a thrower, not a passer, not a QB.

 

Going into the way back machine, Herbert is starting to remind me a lot of Jeff George

 

I wish our quarterback had this arm strength.

 

Tua gets rhe ball out quick because the offense is designed to have him get the ball out quickly. Not the case for Herbert and the Chargers offense. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

Love played like he was concussed.

 

That opening drive by the Rams was a work of art.

 

Gonna be fun to watch Flores defense get cooked tonight.

 

lol try to be a bit consistent. You said this:
https://thephins.com/threads/flores-is-exposed.96718/page-3#post-3402335

One of your original arguments for Herbert over Tua was that he could play really well despite a bad OL while Tua could not. Don't tell us now Herbert can't. You naturally had to stop making that argument once Tua played really well with a bad OL, but that's a different story.

Anyway, you have no consistent position on claiming Herbert is better than Tua. Every major critique either has been disproven or shown to be a standard you only apply to Tua. Best if you stop before you dig yourself a bigger hole.

 

I'm not in any hole and I'll stop when I want to. He was arguing Tua can deal with pressure better than Herbert. It's not Tua, it's the offense that is designed so he gets the ball out before any pressure can develop.

 

You're in a huge credibility hole because you don't apply standards equally to Herbert and Tua. I just quoted you saying Herbert could "thrive" even with a really bad OL. Now when someone points out Herbert plays poorly with a bad OL you try to make an excuse that's inconsistent with your previous position.

How about trying to regain some credibility by just admitting you were wrong about Herbert being able to "thrive" in such conditions.

 

I'm not in any gap. Herbert had the worst oline in the NFL his rookie year and still won ROY. That is a fact, so my previous statement is completely accurate. He already proved his rookie season that he can play with a bad oline. Just because he couldn't do it in the playoffs against the Texans does not negate what he previously did.

And again, Tua would not have done much better. Seem you Tuanoners are all forgetting Tua played the Texans less than a month ago and stunk up the place. Threw for 3 interceptions and less yards than Herbert, while also managing to get himself hurt causing him t miss the last 2 games and have us miss the playoffs.

 

Your previous statement didn't put in a disclaimer that Herbert would suddenly lose the ability to thrive with a bad OL in the future. You made a clear statement about a supposed difference in QB ability. So yes you need to admit you were wrong about Herbert. And Tua has put up elite stats while playing with a bad OL. There's no reason to think he could not have done better.

Regarding Houston, how many times have you kept hammering away saying that making the playoffs isn't enough and that we needed to win a playoff game before singing any praises? Yeah.. apply that to Herbert for once. Be consistent (which you're not).

What Herbert did against Houston is far worse than anything Tua has done given the importance of the game. There's no comparison.

 

Herbert's trash play against Houston is a situation the pro-Herbert anti-Tua crowd can't overcome because they're primary remaining argument against Tua (except for health) was winning big games, not just making the playoffs but winning in the playoffs. There's no way out for them. Either they apply the same standards to Herbert and accept Herbert is worse than Tua, or they'll be called out for being inconsistent. We got the entire offseason before any new data points come in!

 

Again, all you have is stats, no context. Tua did not do well with a bad oline until McDaniel changed the system to have him get rid of the ball quickly. It's the system, not Tua.

And again you are ignoring Tua sucked just as bad as Herbert against the Texans less than a month ago. The fact Herbert did it in a playoff game actually increases the difficulty level for Herbert. Tua would have probably done the same if not worse if he played the Texans in the playoffs. They have a legit defense.

Also. when Tua sucked against the Texans we still had a realistic chance to make the playoffs, it was an important game. That loss effectively knocked us out of the playoffs.

 

You don't understand how powerful the stats argument is. QBs don't put up 3 straight years of elite stats without that being in large part due to the QB!! It's too great a statistical anomaly historically to claim otherwise.

And you're ignoring your own arguments about how winning big games is what matters most. The fact Herbert played worse than Tua ever did (4 INTs with a pick 6) when it mattered most is the problem. Do you want to win a SB or not? If yes, then based on the data thus far you have to choose Tua > Herbert.

 

No,you're wrong. Context matters. Based on the data Herbert has played more games and gotten his team into the playoffs more often than Tua.

Tua cannot make it through a whole season without getting hurt, and if he doesn’t have a track team and superstars tllo throw to he is not good. You give Herbert Tua's weapons and he would be lighting it up.

 

Your own context:
https://thephins.com/threads/dolphins-browns-week-17.99641/page-4#post-3681526

THAT is the position you took when you were confident Herbert wouldn't choke like he did. Now that he has you're digging yourself a massive credibility hole by acting like making the playoffs, not winning in the playoffs, is what matters more. Be consistent!

 

Anybody else remember a few "Miami fans" who would rather miss the playoffs than make it and lose?

 

I'm not saying Herbert shouldn't be better. He definitely should and making the playoffs just to get knocked out in the first round is bad.

But again, if I have to choose between Herbert or Tua, I'm going Herbert without a doubt.

Tua has not proven he is any better, and the injury issues alone are enough to stay away from Tua. Injuries were my main problem with him when we drafted him, and it remains the main problem.

 

I'm not even asking you to change your preference for Herbert. Both Tua and Herbert have a lot of career left in them, so we'll see what ends up happening. Maybe Herbert ends up better, maybe Tua does.

I'm just pointing out the huge inconsistencies in your position, and that if we took what you actually wrote seriously (which is difficult when there are so many contradictions), then you are forced into choosing Tua over Herbert after his abysmal performance in the playoffs against Houston. That's all. Your own words against you.

 

Don't sit there and suddenly say it's only the injuries that are holding him back because you have picked him apart about literally everything he is inside and outside of football. I personally like Herbert too. I wanted us to draft him that year. I did not expect us to pass on him for Tua. Hindsight doesn't really matter though and I'm happy with the talent Tua has showed thus far. I think we'll be ok with him.

 

Please re-read what I wrote, slowly this time. I never said injuries were my only problem, I said it is my main problem. Aside from injury Tua also has a relatively weak arm, is imobile, unathletic, undersized, is not very smart, and has trouble improvising or going off script.

But out of all of those issues injury is my main problem.

BTW I have never attacked Tua personaly or his life off the field.

 

No, Herbert's abysmal performance against Houston does not change the equation vis a vis Herbert vs Tua because again, Tua hasn't done any better, and on top of that can't stay on the field. Tua also played the same Texans team and stunk just as bad.

Herbert's performance was also terrible but still he gets the nod over Tua IMO.

 

Nope, I already pointed out how many times you've emphasized that making the playoffs isn't enough, you have to win in the playoffs. So really the comparison (based on arguments you've made many times) comes down to playoff performance. Herbert has demonstrated FAR worse ability in the playoffs than Tua. In his most important game he played the worst of his career.

There's no way out. If you say you want a QB that can win in the playoffs, Tua > Herbert even if Tua played poorly against KC because Herbert was absolutely abysmal.

 

btw.. hitman8, this one quote of yours shows everyone how many contradictions you have in your position. Check this one out:
https://thephins.com/threads/execs-on-tagovailoa-there-is-serious-concern.95108/page-2#post-3270790

This is why you can't be taken seriously. Constant goalpost moving and contradictions.

 

Yikes. Digging even further he wanted to pass on both Tua and Herbert and draft Jacob Eason with one of their first round picks that year.

 

He has all these flaws and yet somehow has put up these amazing numbers over the past three seasons. How has he done it? I can't wait for you to explain this one.

 

Great weapons, or "track stars" that he likes to call them, that ANYONE can put up elite stats with. Like Thompson did, like Bridgewater did, like Huntley did.

 

Tua has done nothing in the playoffs. And he can't stay healthy enough to even get us into the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game. Herbert has not done much better, and neither of them are good enough at this point.

But if we are just looking at Herbert vs Tua, then Herbert is still the better QB IMO.

 

You guys are really trying hard.

That was my evaluation of Herbert pre draftt. I was wrong and my opinion changed as he came in and lit up the NFL.

Me evaluation of Tua however has not changed. I said we should not pick him because of injury, and I've been proven right so far.