I think you are missing the point. Everyone knows he is going to miss time. If he wasn't, he'd cost more than $15M.
Not missing.I said I didn't want him at any price. I don't like unreliable players.Would have rather had a lesser player that actually plays.
Jesse Davis was a ironman for the Dolphins, but couldn't block your grandmother. You want him playing 17 games over Armstead playing 13?
It’s really not how you can operate, so Many players get injured it’s about calculating the type of injuries, seeing where they are in any rehab assignment, team physicals, sometimes you have to bet in the player being healthy
I hear ya.I just think investing in a player no matter how good averaging 5 missed per season is a bad investment.Gets worse as they older and it has.
Well he’s training hard right now and he’s not rehabbing an injury into the off-season. As long as he doesn’t say “hey it’s July let me get my knee scoped” I say let’s run it back with him one last time. Wont keep me from taking the best tackle on the board though.
Yea man it's just as u older its gets harder and harder to stay healthy. As for me if we keep the pick I am thinking center from Oregon.I don't want to reach for tackle.
Right. So again, classic Grier. Get a guy with great measurables on the cheap because he's often injured, to bee the anchor on our line...but then injuries will again be the excuse. I'd rather have an average player who doesn't get injured, than a stud who misses games every year.
Again though, if it was just him missing 4-5 games, rather than the entire oline, it would have worked out better. Armstead’s past injury history isn’t relevant to any other players injuries. It just so happened that every other olineman not named Austin Jackson suffered injuries. So injuries aren’t an excuse, it’s just the reality. Signing an all pro LT at his price was worth the risk. No one wouod have guessed that the rest of the oline would have played even less than Armstead.
So again, your missing the main point. Most of the top tackles missed time. 5 of the 10 that were paid higher then him started only one game more (1), the same number (3), or about half (1) games that he did over his time with the Dolphins. Injuries happen to everyone. It's not an excuse, it's the reality of the game. You're just as about as likely to wind up with an average guy that you payed less to be injured and play worse when he wasn't. Pay slightly more for the guy that makes a difference when he plays. The market proved he was worth the amount he was paid. No one has made a good argument that he wasn't, just fantasies about these mythical average joes that are immune to injury.
Wow, all of the hostility. Geesh, settle down guys. I doubt Armstead is related to any of you. My take is this. Armstead is a GREAT Tackle. He’s a mountain of a man and when he plays, he plays GREAT. But it’s also the reality that Armstead is going to miss games. As beastly as he is he’s also that susceptible to injury. So the question becomes, how much is he worth? Others have pointed out other linemen who have higher salaries than Armstead and have missed just as many if not more games than Terron. So are we paying what would be expected for a tackle like him? I was wishy washy when we signed him. I knew how awesome he was but I also knew he’d only play half a season. Personally I wish we’d restructure his contract year to year and have it incentive based, but I certainly don’t want to get rid of him either.
Yeah I don't disagree. But it's always the entire line. We haven't hardly had an oline stay consistent for like 20 years. We are almost always good enough to win enough to not have a shot at the top 5. So we keep having to take risks on these sorts of players. And then it blows up in our faces every year. At least that's how it seems to me.
I can agree that the Dolphins oline woes have been long and arduous, but when you look at this year’s line play, when most were healthy, they graded well. We had a great running game and a great passing game… except when nearly the entire oline was either injured or playing out of position. That’s not all on Armstead. This year was just insane with the amount of injuries to the oline and really everywhere. Some of that is on players that seem to miss a lot of games, including Armstead, but most were just bad luck. And if the Dolphins get 10-13 games out of Armstead each year, if the majority of the oline is injured at a more average rate, they would be fine.
Oh for sure, I'm not trying to blame it all on Armstead. Just that we are consistently depending on these guys to stay healthy, and we have absolute zeros behind them. If we had the average guys, then I'm completely fine with going after guys like Armstead. But you've got to have the average/above average guys first.
Noah Ig - Drafted to eventually take over for X. Oops. Eventually sign Ramsey. A. Jackson drafted to be our franchise LT. Oops. Eventually sign Armstead.
AJ was just signed to an extension as the starting RT, which is more important than the LT with a left handed quarterback. Yeah, it took him awhile to get there, but maybe that surgery took more out of him than anyone expected. Noah was a colossal bust, no argument there. Should have been a late round flyer, never a first round pick.
Yeah, my point was really that Grier is forced to cover up for his draft mistakes with these big FA contacts. It’s not a good recipe for any kind of sustained success.
3 of the 5 starters for the 49ers oline are FA signings… 2 of those starters were drafted by Grier. 1 of which who missed 30 games in 4 seasons before the 49ers drafted him. You may have heard of him… Trent Williams... who signed the largest OT contract ever. Oops… It’s not like Grier and the Dolphins are doing anything out of the norm. Blaming Grier for not developing players is not smart. Look what this regime did with AJ.
No, I got your point. It’s just not a good one. The 49ers have drafted Olinemen… yet 3 of their starters are FA’s. Some of that is due to injury and some of that is due to the drafted player not being good enough to start. Just like the Dolphins and just like every other team in the NFL.
Maybe we're arguing different things? I'm NOT arguing that Armstead wasn't a good deal, as far as contracts go. I'm saying, if your goal is to win a Super Bowl, then in hindsight, we can agree that he was not a good signing. He's consistently missing games, and injuries screwed or season. Like I said earlier, it's not like we had some good players and took a flier on Armstead, making ones if those good players now depth, so even if Armstead went down, we had someone behind. Instead, the plan seems to have been, Don't get injured!
I get your supportive of the team and management. However, you constantly simply dismiss criticisms of the team. Dude, I don't really care what San Fran has done. Miami, GRIER, has been dog **** when it comes to the oline. Also it seems that any good players he drafts get traded.
You don't sign a guy like Armstead, who was a pro bowl player, to be depth. He's at the highest level and if you signed him for depth and paid him 15m, you would be complaining about Grier because he overpaid. You can't foresee losing 5 O Lineman.
That wasn't what I understood your point to be. I would counter that Armstead's first two replacements did meet an average level of play, they just needed 4th string and more tackles as RT had multiple injuries too. The Dolphins line was exceptionally cursed last year. It's strange how injuries fell during Mike's first two years. corner and safety the first year, and OL and pass rush the second. Just devastated. Makes one wonder about training staff and what steps can be taken. I understand looking at talent acquisition as contributing to injuries overall. There are just so many injuries with football. Injury history doesn't seem to mean much. Tua's big question coming out was rightly injury history, being almost crippled right before the draft, but he has played a game more than Burrow has. Who would have called that? I probably should have used a different example as I don't want to engage in the Tua debate vortex. Waaaaay to much trolling there. It's just a perfect example for my point about injuries. I think questioning the large amount of resources spent on Chubb with his injury history is more valid than the $15M a year on Armstead. The Armstead contract was fair, and the backups this year were fine. The unit was just snake bit as a whole.
I criticize the team over things that are actually in their control. Using other teams as examples is a great way to judge moves, coaching, etc. If Miami’s oline had not of suffered an extreme amount of injuries, injuries that no one could have predicted, but Armstead still missed 7 games, we wouldn’t be questioning his signing. Complaining, after the fact and in hindsight, isn’t really being objective. The 49ers, as do nearly all other teams, operate in a very similar fashion. Some are luckier and some find a needle in a haystack, but some of those teams make it to and even win the SB. Unless you’re trying to compare Grier to Ozzie Newsome, he’s about as good as any other GM. My biggest gripe with Grier is how long it took to get a good HC. And even then how much was Ross involved in those decisions?
I. Didn't. Say. To. Sign. Him. As. Depth. How could you read that post, and then make that argument? I know I know, I'm probably being sensitive. But once again an argument is created by my original post being completely twisted into the opposite of what I said. I said signing Armstead would make the decent player we had to be depth so that we wouldn't be ****ed when Armstead invariably goes down. Instead HE was what we were completely depending on, and it seems that idea was "We'll get lucky and not have any injuries"
Except his replacements were ok. Until they got hurt or had to move to other positions because of other injuries. BTW - Who's arguing? Maybe that's where the sensitivity issue lies (lays?). You see a disagreement as an argument. This is a discussion board. It's what happens here.
Dude. It's been three years of people twisting things I say. Your post literally said the opposite of what I wrote. The argument "being created" was not me saying you were arguing. I said you created one. Which you did. Of course I'm going to respond when you argue against something that I didn't say. So it creates an unnecessary argument.
