The OFFICIAL All-Tua All-Positive Thread

I think Tua does a great job remaining positive among one of the most negative fanbases imaginable. Props for keeping your head high when so many go low, #1!

 

For the record: Going back to 2 or 3 banned Tua threads ago, I have posted good and bad things about Tua. There's been more good because a lot of the negative stuff came with clear contextual bias. The bad stuff gets much less vitriolic discussion than the positive posts. I think people believe that posting something positive is somehow a personal attack.

We should all be able to agree that he's not the best QB in the league. We should all also be able to agree that he's certainly not a subjectively bad QB. But if you don't think he's the best QB we've had since The Man, then you probably just are here to argue. That's no intended disrespect, just my opinion.

He's far from perfect, but in my humble opinion, he's still growing as he goes into his fifth season. Going back to the Tua Is Not The Problem thread, all I ever said was that writing him off halfway through his second season was premature. I hold to that opinion today.

 

Brah, just stop.

My favorite thing about Tua last year was the Hard Knocks episode where he was talking to the rest of the QB room about spending some time in the HQ building talking to and getting to know the support staff. The realization of their commitment to the team hit him pretty hard and you could tell he took that personally and willing picked up the weight of their expectations and his and the teams role in contributing to their success and investment in the teams success. He is a Chief to his Clan and the entire Dolphins organization became his clan. Say whatever you want about his play, there is no questioning his leadership. Respect that man I do.

 

To be honest this negative fanbase u call it doesn't hold a candle to the eagle fanbase.
They have been calling for headcoach to be fired a year removed from being in superbowl.

 

Elite release, elite anticipation, elite accuracy.

250

 

Until we see Tua with an elite Oline we will just never know. Most would agree that a good Oline makes any QB better. Tua with an extra second to read the field would be scary. The ball is in Grier's court.

 

When he gets more time on a regular basis then McD can design plays other than the quick release type plays to a predetermined spot.

 

The stats (PFR) showed Tua was pressured one of the least in the league. He could have afforded to hold ball longer, but that's not what McDaniel or Tua wanted.

 

This is just wrong. The reason he wasn’t pressured much is because he was getting the ball out faster than anyone else. Anytime he had to hold it an average amount of time his protection broke down. Let’s not pretend that his oline was somehow good at pass pro this season and he had the luxury of holding the ball longer but McD said “Nah, get it out as fast as possible”.

 

FYI dolphin Oline rated 2nd to last in pass rush win rate

At least I want all the info when making a crucial evaluation

 

That stat is flawed though (the inventor admitted this) and doesn't actually determine if the "win" resulted in a pressure. The stat of pressures actually does, and Tua had a pressure rate of 15.7% which was tied for 29th/30th of out 32 with Lamar Jackson. In 2022, Tua was pressured 20.7% which is ranked 18th. So using the same stat, it's apples to apples, and becomes REALLY hard to argue the plan wasn't to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible. Unless you think the line got significantly better? You hold the ball longer, you get a higher pressure rate. The large majority of QBs did this season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/passing_advanced.htm

 

Common sense tells me because of the design of the speed offense and the fastest release from drop to release makes those stats you mentioned irrelevant.

I want to be critical of the player for various reasons, one being this is a big decision for our teams future, but I also want to completely understand what we have to work with fairly, I don’t want to deny the strengths of the player or how his skill set affects certain stats, especially pressure related stats.

The pass rush win rate seemingly ignores everything outside of watching the olineman vrs his opponent.

 

Well that's kind of a different argument, but I would agree with you. The design and scheme makes the offensive line's pass blocking rather irrelevant. The design McDaniel came up with was to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible and severely limit the amount of times Tua could be in a position to be hit, or throw under pressure, and that design was wildly successful.

 

Agreed

 

I think if someone Collected PFF data on all of our olineman pass protection grades and measured them up against the other 31 lines you might have the most accurate depiction as they only watch individuals either winning or losing the rep

 

I may be repeating in different words what may have already been stated, but the Dolphins offense was designed to get the ball out quickly on pass plays. This was due to the poor offensive line and their inability to consistently provide a clean pocket for Tua to work out of.

Rhis is the reason why many have claimed Tua was a “one read” quarterback. It’s not that Tua was a one read quarterback. It’s the OL couldn’t hold the rush long enough for designed plays to develop. The rush just overwhelmed the OL’s abilities.

 

You can repeat yourself all you'd like. Think logically here. No one designs an offense with the idea the offensive line is going to be terrible. That's not how you scheme or design plays. There was reasons going into 2023 that the line would improve. Did they design the run game based on run blocking not being good? Let's not be ridiculous here.

It was schemed this way because:
1. Tua is very bad throwing under pressure and without his feet under him, one of the worst in the league, so it's best for the team if he gets the ball out quickly.
2. And this is MOST important, after the concussion, keeping Tua healthy was the #1, #2, & #3 most important thing the scheme could do. Hence, why he had the lowest QB hit rate in the league.

Let me ask you this. If the line is so terrible, why doesn't Tua ever take deeper drops to give himself more time to read the field and throw?

Factually inaccurate though. He was hit the least in the league this season and pressured one of the least in the league this season going off PFR readings. Tua could AFFORD to hold the ball longer based on those statistics but didn't. Why? It's pretty simple. Keeping him healthy was the most important thing.

Now according to PFF, the most pressure Tua has faced in a single game has been when he was pressured on 36.6% of his dropbacks in our second game vs the Jets. Aside from that, he hasn't been pressured on over 30% of his drop backs in any of the games. Most of the time he has faced pressure on 25% of his drop backs or much less, which is pretty good for an O-Line. In the KC playoff game, they said on the broadcast Tua had the most time he's had to throw the ball all season. Again, pressure wasn't the issue there. Folks got to stop blaming the o-line for everything.

 

This is the stat people are quoting like it's gospel:

 

You’re still failing to understand how this works.

Tua was pressured little because of his fast processing speed, quick release, and the play designs. Not because he had time if he wanted to or that his oline was good at protecting him on passing plays. McD designed these plays knowing full well that not only is Tua good at getting the ball out quickly, but also because the oline is bad at pass pro. There’s a big difference between pass pro and run blocking. Why do you think McD likes fast RB’s and the outside zone? It’s because he knows this oline can’t block very well for inside zone runs.

 

Then he should have demanded that his GM draft better O linemen or pick up more of them in free agency. They're both to blame for the state of the O line.

 

Nope. You are failing to understand how this works. If you hold onto the ball longer, you get pressured more (eg Tannehill), but Tua wasn't pressured at an average clip. He was pressured very much below average, one of the least in the league. He could afford holding the ball longer and getting pressure at a league average rate like many other top QBs. Mahomes was pressured 12th most at 22.6%. Stroud 13th most at 22.0%. Purdy was pressured 16th most at 20.1%. Allen 20th most at 19.3%. Ect...

The choice of Tua and the scheme was that Tua gets pressured as little as possible (15.7%), not that he couldn't afford to be pressured more and hold onto the ball longer. Your point would make some sense if Tua was at the top of pressure rates in 2023 or even the top 1/3, but he wasn't. He was at the bottom. He could afford holding the ball longer.

And McD was doing fast RB outside zone in SF with a better line. Has nothing to do with the Dolphins line.

 

Tua was pressured the least because from snap to throw was in 2 seconds or less.

Those are the facts and they’re indisputable.

 

Next Gen Stats had Tua #1 at 2:36 seconds and Mac Jones 2nd at 2.46 seconds.

And no one is disputing he got rid of the ball quickly. The dispute is he didn't need to as often as he did, and the stats back that up.

 

You’re making the assumption that the offensive line protection would have held for longer for him to have the time to hold the ball longer.

I peruse NextGen Stats…or any of those other stat sights but I’m willing to wager if you looked it up, and if it’s even tracked, every one of Tua’s sacks came when he held the ball for 3.5 seconds or longer.

The OL for this team has been that pitiful for so many years. McDaniel was able to work around that weakness and fortunate enough to have a quarterback with the gifts to be able to make his system work with the weaknesses our team has.

 

Or maybe he should have waived his magic wand and prevented the OL injuries?

 

Lmao…

Tua gets rid of the ball more often than not before anyone can get to him. Therefore his rate at being pressured is artificially lower than if he actually held the ball for an average amount of time. When a QB has no option other than throwing the ball within 2 seconds that limits the offense and makes dullards call Tua a “1 read QB”.

Your anti-Tua glasses have shaded your reality.

Back on ignore for you.

 

He’s not even assuming. He’s just making stuff up for lack of comprehension and his hatred of the Miami Dolphins.

 

Not at all. I'm saying he would have been pressured more, or sometimes the line would have held, but at his current pressure rates he could have afforded it like all the other QBs I mentioned with much higher hit and pressure rates. You can still be great and have a 20% pressure rate.

I mean no QB gets 3.5 seconds to throw. The average time to throw is 2.7 ish. Getting the ball out quickly isn't this amazing gift you think it is. Mac Jones was 2nd fastest this season and no one is saying they are blessed to have him. In the KC WC game, Tua had one of his highest time to throws of the year.

Again, you really don't want Tua to have more time and read the field:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39493805/four-ways-dolphins-qb-tua-tagovailoa-improve-2024

 

Anger & personal insults again. It's not your fault.

You really still aren't getting it. Read posts above or don't. Just know the pleasure has been all mine.

 

Maybe he shouldn't have taken so many chances on players who got injured a lot?

 

Williams, Wynn, and Hunt have extensive injury histories?
News to me…

 

Don't be intentionally obtuse.

 

That’s how they dooz’ it.