Dolphins GM wants Tua long term

As much as I don’t think Tua is the answer long term, I think he pretty much has to say things like this publicly. Now if he pays Tua like Burrow, I’ll have some issues.

 

Yeah on some level they have to act like they love him if they ever want to get something for him.

But the league knows.

 

Some MFer needs to ask Grier if he doesn't sign Tua, who he thinks is going to give big bucks to get him away from us.

 

Allowing Grier to make any more decisions is like allowing an arsonist to rebuild your house that burnt down.

 

I mean, you guys are aware that failing to sign Tua to an extension means starting completely over, right? We might retain a few of the other guys that we've drafted since him, but it would mean that everything else would change in a couple of years, McDaniel would likely be fired, and we'd then go though another 2019-type of year while Waddle, Achane, Phillips and anyone else still here is in their prime.

 

Look, there's no good solution to the situation we're in. We dug another hole and now we're paying for it. If the FO signs Tua to a long-term contract, they're stuck with his limitations for the long term too, and we're going to be passing up opportunities to upgrade at the position if they come along. Same thing that happened when we had Jay Fiedler or Ryan Tannehill.

 

But if you sign him to a 5 year deal now, you can also dump him after year three. My point is that why not do what you can when the cap is a mess, and then reset afterwards if it doesn't work out.

 

Three more years of this?

 

We've had made the playoffs back to back for the first time since 2000-01. Just had our first 11 win season in 15 years. Just had the #1 offense in the whole damn league.

And you're eager to throw that in the trash because we aren't better quite yet?

 

No, he's eager to throw that in the trash to supplement his anti-Tua agenda, which he's had since before we drafted him.

 

I'm not thrilled to death with Tua either, but he's young, has potential to be better, and he's who we've got. The odds of supplanting him with a top 5 elite talent are close to nil. So let's rife this out and see where we are in a few years

 

So what though? We weren't even competitive in the playoffs. That #1 offense you mentioned was non existent when it mattered on multiple occasions.

You are past year 5 in your rebuild. You shouldn't be like, well I think next year will be our year. Next year will be more likely be worse because we'll be facing more teams with winning records, up against the cap needing to make difficult decisions, and I'd be shocked if Tua had another full healthy season. Move on. Rip the bandaid off.

 

The economics dictate you have to extend him. An extension lowers his cap hit the next 2 years and you need those savings now. You structure it with multiple outs (probably player and team as well) so you can cut bait every season or other season. Its not hard and is essential for the offseason

 

How much of this “success” is because we got to play 6 of the worst teams in the NFL, one of them twice? Beating up on bad teams and getting dominated against playoff caliber teams isn’t really a step in the right direction. This was year 4 of the rebuild and we’re not even close to competitive with the top teams in the AFC. As far as the #1 offense, we finished 2nd and that offense was a no show against playoff caliber teams.

I’m not saying we need to completely tear it down and some pieces are in place. But it’s also very clear that Tua struggles against good teams, struggles on the road and in adverse conditions. And it’s not just on Tua, the entire offense becomes ineffective against good teams.

 

The bad teams argument doesnt really hold weight to me as the “bad teams” we beat up on still had elite defenses.

i believe i read we played 6th hardest schedule in the nfl in terms of defenses faced and still had an elite offense. Should honestly be better next year

 

I must be the only one that sees us beating up on bad teams as progress. I seem to recall us barely beating or losing to bad teams on the regular. I would love us to beat the contenders (and a playoff game) for sure, but (to me) we are trending in the right direction with this season.

 

not true at all. They could franchise him after next year.

 

Why can nobody understand he actually costs less against the cap in the short term (2-3 seasons) then playing out the option and franchise tag game? Its very, very simple. A well structured contract is the best for the team and the player and thus likely. The only person it imperils is ross, who will pay it out regardless if its guaranteed cash structured to keep cap hit down and frankly WHO GIVES A **** ABOUT ROSS WALLET

 

Thanks for the sane, rational posts about Tua and the cap.

I'm not a fan of Grier and Tua is likely the guy for the short term. And because of that you must build around him.

 

you assume he signs a small contract. Actually he would cost less each year with a long term contract.

Pay him the amount he is set for this year. Then if he does what you want you assign the Franchise so you don't lose him. Then you work out a long term deal to replace the franchise tag IF IF IF you want to keep him. This is really simple.

 

He is like 24 million now, he is NOT going to extend for less then that, thus you will be paying him more.

 

We’re not winning anything with the current group.

 

i am begging you guys to look at how this is done. The franchise tag cap hit for a qb is around 40m. Through signing bonuses, workout bonuses, and deferrals, his cap hit the next 3 years would be LESS with an extension then going 5th year option and franchise tags, and let you do what you gotta do around the rest of the roster.

EG: how Giants structures jones contract. Makes base pay irrelevant for a couple years. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/daniel-jones-29041/

 

Is your preference to just completely reset the franchise every four years until you luck into a top five QB?

 

This is interesting. Tua's stats en toto vs when you subtract his best and worst games are almost identical.

 

I think the preference would be to find a GM who doesn’t suck at drafting. Grier had 9 picks in the first 2 rounds of the 2020-2021 drafts, which was loaded with elite talent, and what do we have to show for it? A QB who sh**s the bed against good teams, a marginal RT, a good RG that we probably can’t resign, a DT(Davis) who’s average at best and a pass rusher who hasn’t been able to stay healthy at any level of football.

This win now mindset has been plaguing us for years. We leverage our future for players because we think we’re 1 player away and then it turns out that not only are we not 1 player away, we’re not even competitive with the best teams in our conference.

 

I'm all with you there. Drafting well and developing a solid foundation are paramount, and I have always been opposed to giving away high draft picks to then turn around and give a huge contract to a guy from another team. Unless he's the last missing piece between being good and being great, I think its the wrong way to go. And many Dolphins fans love Grier because that's the one thing he's done.

Outside of hitting on some (but not enough) first and early second round picks, our drafts have largely sucked the past five years. And when you look over Grier's entire career as GM, its hard to find any players taken from the 3rd round on who stuck around as useful role players, let alone important starters. And our failures on the OL are obscene.

 

Has anyone done it any other way in the last 20 years?

 

• Trade Tua, sign Cousins: The equation here is that Cousins and a draft pick (or picks) would be better than continuing with Tagovailoa. The Dolphins do not have third- or fourth-round picks in the upcoming draft, so they could use the capital. Cousins, a free agent in March, would have to prioritize Miami as his preferred landing spot, which seemingly would be easy for him, given what the Dolphins offer in terms of McDaniel’s personality, the scheme and weaponry.

“Your upside with Tua certainly seems limited,” an exec said, “so let’s say you can trade him. I would be exploring, ‘OK, Tua, we can win games with, probably not winning a championship with. Kirk Cousins, we can win games with, probably not winning a championship with. But our resources are better spent on Cousins plus draft picks than they are on just Tua.”

Who would trade for Tagovailoa? NFC teams with indoor stadiums might. Could the Dolphins get a first-round pick? A second- and a third-rounder?

“If you could get a 2 and a 3 for Tua and sign Kirk, I’d want to make sure I felt comfortable about having him for three years from a health standpoint,” a different exec said. “I do think Tua works much better in a domed stadium where you know half your games are played in pristine conditions.”

Put Tagovailoa on the Falcons and Atlanta could have the best quarterback in the division. The Vikings would need a quarterback if Cousins departed. Could the Rams be interested if Matthew Stafford retired? Trading Tagovailoa for Stafford would be even better if the right set of circumstances made it feasible.

McDaniel’s coaching mentor, Kyle Shanahan, has coveted Cousins. McDaniel might feel similarly. The three were together with Washington for Cousins’ first two seasons. Could Cousins be the difference for the Dolphins between securing home-field advantage or not?

“If you like Cousins and you can sign him to a three- or four-year deal and you can trade Tua for a couple of draft picks, that to me is a different type of path forward,” the first exec said. “I don’t know if it is the best one. You really have to be in that building to know, but if you are looking for alternatives, there is a pretty good one.”

https://theathletic.com/5200955/2024/01/15/tua-tagovailoa-dolphins-contract-kirk-cousins/

 

My favorite articles are the ones with the "random anonymous executives".

 

I do agree Tua would win the MVP every year if he played in the NFC South.

 

I have mo problem with a reasonable properly structured tua extension and dont really get why anyone else does. Youre not getting a better guy. A better veteran guy isnt available. And drafting someone is a rebuild starter.
And stop pretending kirk off a torn Achilles or jimmy g are better. It just sounds silly

 

That would certainly come as news to the 49ers and the Texans.

 

Think of all the good seasons the Fins could have had in the NFC South had we been put there with realignment in 2002.

 

We were supposed to go into the AFC South, I believe.

 

And this concerns you why ???

 

OK...Fine...Let's sign him, but we absolutely need to draft another one in case we end up missing with this. If the front office wants to continue their faith in Tua, then so be it. I can't do anything about that. However, I would absolutely look at the draft both now and in 2025. If there's a talented QB sitting there for the taking when we pick, I'd be hard pressed not to do it. Obviously it would cause some issues and controversy. People would argue about it...Whatever, but the bottom line is if we're keeping Tua around then we need a contingency plan. If this turns into a Daniel Jones situation where he just starts to flat-out suck or gets injured again, you don't want to be without a viable replacement (sorry, Mike White and Kirk "Achilles No playoff win" Cousins isn't the answer).
Now I get that drafting a guy shows that you don't have 100% faith in your current starter, but sometimes it's necessary to do so and it's not exactly unheard of. The Patriots took Jimmy G during a time when Brady was still well in his prime years winning Super Bowls. The Packers took Jordan Love while Aaron Rodgers was still very much the quarterback of the Packers. I see nothing wrong with doing so and if it offends Tua, then good...Maybe it will motivate him even more. The teams needs to do what's best for the team and above everything else...You need to have a mainstay at the quarterback position if you want a shot at winning in this league on a yearly basis. The Buffalo Bills will ALWAYS be in contention because of Josh Allen. It doesn't matter what happens with their salary cap or injuries or anything else. Josh Allen is good enough that if you have him on your team, you will always have a chance to go to the Super Bowl. That's how it was when Marino was here. We always had a shot at it. We didn't get there, but damn we always had a chance regardless of the roster, weather, cheerleaders, crime in the city...Didn't matter.
People talk about how you just need a Joe Flacco to win a Super Bowl. Yeah...That's true if you have a salary maxed out stacked team around them with perfect health and a great coaching staff, but Joe Flacco wasn't going to get the Ravens in the conversation each and every year regardless of what else was going on with the team around him. Peyton Manning on the other could get you there throwing to Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon and no defense. Tom Brady could get you there throwing to Kembrell Thompkins while making a star out of Julian Edelman. Aaron Rodgers would get you there with a patchwork O line and two rookie receivers. That's what I mean when I say mainstay at the position. Great Quarterbacks elevate the play of those around them and they make chicken salad out of chicken **** when they have to.
What's going to happen next season when the defense takes a step backwards with all the new faces and replacements? What's going to happen when Tua no longer has Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle to throw to?