Tua is not the Problem

Except the things that you mention are things that can actually be measured.

Go reply to another post 4x while you have a mental breakdown over a Payton interview.

 

Sure it makes sense, if you hate Tua. There is probably nothing Tua could do to change Stale Tacos opinion…

 

bro we all should wait til this poster addresses the questions I asked him above instead of debating his same ole **** over and over..

I posed the question, lets see what kid of poster you are, and he refuses to talk about any of the good traits are qn has so what that means is you are dealing with a troll.. a soon to be put on ignore troll

 

It makes plenty of sense. You aren't actually proving Tua's footwork is good by just stating his overall numbers were good. Just like stating when his numbers are bad doesn't prove his footwork was bad.

 

Those were semi-unrelated statements. I was stating that even with objective statistics that fly in the face of your narrative, you're not receptive. Why would I source a bunch of subjective, but professional, opinions about Tua's pocket presence and footwork within the pocket if you can't even accept the former?

You don't even know where your own goalposts are.

 

What is it about Tua that let him lead the league in nearly every important statistical category?

 

So, if something can't be measured, it doesn't exist? Ever heard of arm talent? football IQ? ability to read a defense? pocket presence? heart? leadership? mental toughness? etc etc etc.....

 

Because I can provide you with professional subjective opinions that state the opposite. That Tua has poor footwork. Does that mean Tua doesn't have that elite tool of footwork?

 

But you've been provided objective statistics as well, so it doesn't really matter what anybody does to affect your opinion.

 

A combination of elite weapons, defensive teams needing to learn a new scheme, not needing to play through injuries like other QBs, and a small sample size. If you look at the final 5 games of the year, he had a combined 84.4 passer ratting with a 54.61% completion. Teams caught up. He really just lit up really bad teams (Det, Chi, Cleveland). Got lucky in Pittsburg (3-4 dropped INTs), and wasn't asked to do much first time in Buffalo (18 pass attempts). Played super well in 4th quarter with missing defense in Baltimore. That's about it. It's just not there when you dig deeper.

This will correct in a full season. Hard. You people are going to be crushed.

 

Vid..You're better than engaging with this troll..he's indicted himself imo.

 

What objective statistics that have a direct correlation to footwork did you provide?

 

Lol

 

Well, we can agree to disagree. Another poster that I can ignore. The last healthy 6 quarters of football he played during the year, he was back to playing well, including playing a good defense on the road, in the cold. Whether you want to admit it or not, he had fewer bad games than most QBs.

Josh Allen played against Det, Chi, and Clev too. His passer ratings were 80.8, 71.3, and 100.4. Tua's were 138.7, 135.7, and 135.0. How do you explain that? Aaron Rodgers faced Det and Chi, twice each - 131.1, 53.5, 85.7, and 83.1.

 

Hill and waddle running great routes and getting great separation, combined with Mcdaniel's system/playcalling tailored towards Tua's strength of making timing/anticipation throws were the main factors.

 

Allen and Rodgers dont have Hill and Waddle and an offensive guru designing/calling plays, that's how you explain it.

 

Thank you for mentioning Tua's strengths. Many assume that any QB can play in this system. I just don't think that is true.

One minor quibble is that I think this is McDaniel's offense, period. I think that is why he is so excited about Tua. He has found a QB that is perfect for his offense. In addition to the strengths you mentioned, add quick release, accuracy, and exceptionally quick feet. The shift of his feet from possibly handing off to throwing in the RPO game is ridiculous. Also, the speed with which he turns to throw after faking a handoff is sick. Those traits allow him to be in a position to throw early enough to allow him to throw with that kind of anticipation.

Now imagine what happens with a better pass blocking OL and a better running game.

 

Allen's weapons are very good, Diggs is excellent. The TE is a bigger part of the offense. OL was better. The point is that playing those defenses is not a guarantee of success. Pretending like it is in order to dis Tua is weak.

 

Are you saying Allen and Rodgers are only as good as the players around them?

 

Lafleur came from the same coaching tree as McDaniel. Daboll just won coach of the year and Daniel Jones just had his most efficient year as a pro.

Funny you should mention Daboll- on limited snaps, Tua was pretty efficient with him as his offensive coordinator back in 2017. In fact, you'd really only be able to cite the Flores regime years for instances of Tua not being efficient- and those weren't even that bad considering it was his first two years in the league with a cast of schlubs rotating in and out of the offensive coordinator roles.

Daboll also did wonders in developing a system in which Josh Allen could thrive coming out of Wyoming as a raw prospect.

 

You call McDaniel an offensive guru and he just had an interview where he raved about Tua and his fit in his offense. McDaniel was mocked by some on here for that.

If McDaniel, an offensive guru as you say, raves about Tua you would have to be pretty excited about that I would think.

 

Joe Burrow against Cle - 96.4, 85.3. Against Pitt - 61.7 (4 INTs), 104.1 (2 INTs), against Bal - 82.6, 81.0 (2 TDs in 8 quarters). Burrow's weapons are excellent.

Burrow is probably my 2nd ranked (behind Mahomes) QB right now, but we can stop pretending that Tua is the only QB with weapons and that all other decent QBs also thrashed the defenses he thrashed.

 

Let me add one thing that is often lost in these discussion. There was some truly bad QB play last season.

This is NFL.com's final analysis. I would rank Tua above Herbert but that is kind of splitting hairs. I would also put Burrow above Hurts.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-ind...rimary-starting-quarterbacks-at-the-end-of-th

 

Allen still has a lot to prove, but Rodgers?? Rodgers is an all-time great. How do you explain Rodgers coming in #1 in passer rating in 2020 and 2021 without Hill and Waddle and without that offensive guru you mention?

Rodgers had an off year in 2022. That's how you explain it.

Rodgers is an all-time great. He's #3 on the list of number of times a QB came in #1 in passer rating (4 times.. less only than Young at 6 and Starr at 5), and he's #3 in passer rating adjusted for era (z-score: minimum 3000 attempts) with a z-score of 1.35 over his career, only less than Young (1.86) and Montana (1.56). That's when the average z-score for a SB winning QB (in the year they win the SB) is just around 1. That's how good Rodgers is. He doesn't need Hill and Waddle to put up elite stats.

 

Correct, I should have added that Rodgers also had a bad year and played injured (thumb). Allen also played through an elbow injury most of the year as well.

 

Allen does not have great weapons. Diggs is not as good as Hill or waddle, and other than Diggs there really is no other exceptional weapon on that offense, except Allen himself making plays happen.

 

Do any of you just step back for a second and ask yourself why Tua generates so much debate and why so many people are unimpressed by him? We dont hate on Tua for hating's sake. Tua is just not a very impressive and exciting player, and he has some serious physical limitations that turn people off.

While he does have some nice traits like anticipation and nice accuracy, these are not things that really excite people. Tua never really makes plays on his own that get people excited like you would see from a Mahomes or Allen or Herbert, and he has too many limitations that make him look fragile and athletically limited. That combined with the fact that we could have had Herbert, pretty much explains all the negativity you see around Tua.

 

"Exciting" is a subjective term. I'm more excited when we win games, which we often do when Tua starts at quarterback.

Johnny Manziel was an exciting quarterback and it meant ****-all in the W column.

He's only divisive in the major sports media sphere and to the people that take those opinions over objective performance.

 

You're severely underrating Diggs to help your point.

 

doubt

 

Well said. It's the same reason why Tua led in Pro Bowl votes, but wasn't voted into the Pro-Bowl. The 2/3rds of the votes that compile the coaches & players, the people actually in the game, don't have some personal bias against Tua.

 

I'm not basing my opinion on the same constituency that never once sent Marques Colston or Julian Edelman through to the Pro Bowl.

 

Yes well, subjectively most people dont find Tua to be a very exciting player. It has nothing to do with pundits. He just doesnt do anything that makes you go wow what a talent.

 

I respect your opinion that Tua might not be the style of quarterback you want to watch on Sundays, but disagree with the premise that he's fated to fail because of it.

 

Add on his injury history, and the scales tip further.

 

I couldn't care less about what excites people. IMO, many are stuck on the physical attributes and can't be bothered to understand what is actually happening on the field. He has limitations. Other QBs have their own limitations. I wouldn't take Herbert over Tua right now. I'll take Tua's limitations over Herberts.

I could understand the feelings over his physical limitations before the draft and during his first two years. But, now that he has shown the ability to play at a very high level, that should be the focus. Barring injury, I have no reason to believe he won't be near the top of most passing categories again this season. Does he need to prove it again? Sure, but Herbert hasn't done squat and he gets nothing but a pass on this forum. It is weird.

 

You should look through some Chargers message boards. There are a lot of posters who are not sold, or aren't sufficiently sold, on Herbert. Many lament Herbert's 25-24 record, his poor playoff performance, and whether he's worth the megadeal QBs nowadays tend to make after their rookie deal. Yes, it's true many blame this on other players or the coach, but there are many posters who think Herbert will only succeed with a great surrounding cast (sound familiar?). That playoff game made some impressions.

Overall, I'd agree there's not this kind of clear division among fans you see with Tua, but it's not like all Chargers fans are solidly behind Herbert either, with many saying they've seen this before with Rivers. The wins just aren't there. There are very few teams where fans don't question their QB so this kind of discussion about Tua isn't at all out of the norm. Hey, at least we have someone who potentially could be the solution at QB. Most teams can't really say that.

 

Respectfully, you have no idea what most people think about Tua.

 

I don't think anyone is saying, "It's no problem if Tua misses significant time with another injury."

 

Herbert is an exciting player with no physical limitations, won ROY, and he doesnt miss several games a year due to injury like Tua does. Herbert also thoroughly outplayed Tua last time they went head to head.