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Dolphins @ Bills - Wildcard Round (01/15/‘23)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pennington's Limp Arm, Jan 9, 2023.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I dont agree, when drafting and signing free agents, you should be risk averse. Basically apply murphy's law and assume that anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

    I think that has been one of the main reasons for Grier's failures is he is always taking chances on project players or players with red flags and injury histories. If you look at Grier's best 1st round pick since he took over in 2016, it was Christian Wilkins, his least risky pick. A player who had high production in college, no injury history and no red flags. Those are the type of players you should be picking in the first round to avoid picking busts as Grier so often does.
     
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  2. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Right but what I’m getting at is there was NOTHING indicating Miami should have drafted Purdy over Thompson on draft day.

    Sure, you or anyone else can say NOW “I wish we had drafted Purdy” but no one can really be upset about drafting Thompson.

    The fact Miami even took him that late in the draft shows they saw something in him…and seeing how we were THAT close to winning today validates the pick in my opinion.
     
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  3. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Chubb almost earned his trade today. But they didn't capitalize.
     
  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah like I said it's the flip of a coin. But it's still true we should have taken Purdy instead of Thompson.

    Uhh no. Thompson today was a below average QB. You can give him those 3-4 crucial drops and that's still true. Nothing today suggests Thompson is even a good backup QB. I just think he's worth developing, but if you find a better backup then I have no issue getting rid of him. The unit that has to be praised today is the defense, though they did give up too many points. At least the defense made a bunch of great plays and even scored, but Thompson failed to capitalize on them as much as even an average QB I think would have.
     
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  5. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    I think Skylar did great for the situations he was in. Like if McD puts the 4th and 1 play in properly, maybe they score to win or at least get into field goal range. That's amazing. However, when I watch Skylar play I ask myself what tool does he have that's elite? There isn't one. That's a problem. A big one. I rather develop something that has much more upside.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
  6. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Makes me wish that Tua was cleared.
     
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  7. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    I never thought I'd see a 7th round QB debate but here we are. If SF and Miami both had more durable starters and backups then neither of these guys would have ever set foot on the field this season.
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It's the offseason.. what do you want to talk about? Predicting Grier's next major move? lol
     
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  9. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So post game McDaniels seems to insinuate that the officials (or maybe coaching) told him it was first down. So they were bringing out a different personnel grouping thinking it was 1st and 10 which is what led to the delay of game on the 4th and 1. If that's the officials that told him that... there's some major issues with how this game was handled, yet we already know that from watching it.

    That being said he does leave the door open that it could have been coaching. Clearly McDaniel has someone on his staff giving him bad advice re: challenges & down and distance situations. He's got to take a good hard look at his staff.
     
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  10. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like it was more on his coaches but it wouldn't surprise me if the referees fed him wrong information.
     
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  11. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    I just think it's funny. Team's have a hard enough time getting 1st round picks right and now we're expecting them to hit on their 7th rd Quarterbacks and second guess why they didn't draft Brock Purdy? Every team passed on him seven times over.
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I wouldn't hold it against any team to miss in the 7th round. I was just making an observation that Purdy is the guy we should have taken. Doesn't mean we should expect a team to draft that well.
     
  13. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Had the worst challenge overturn percentage in the NFL.. whoever is feeding him info.. needs to be let go
     
  14. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    McDaniel has a lot to learn from this past season. But that's to be expected considering this is his first time being a Head Coach.
     
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  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    It was a big game against buffalo with Tua starting just three weeks ago. We saw the results. There is no telling if we would also get three turnovers with Tua starting. Maybe we would have won, maybe not. All three games against buffalo this year were close, whether Tua was playing or not.
     
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  16. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is we never seem to hit on any lower round picks with grier drafting, and his first round picks are mostly busts or underachievers.
     
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  17. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Again...
    -3rd string quarterback
    -Rookie
    -7th round draft pick
    -3rd start of his career

    I agree with you that he is worth developing. He knows the offense. He has command of the offense. He's hindered though by inexperience at the NFL level and made rookie mistakes, as any reasonable and prudent person would expect from a 7th round rookie to make.

    I disagree with you however as far as getting rid of him if another back-up is available. The problem with "other back-ups" is that they are usually former starters who lost their starting job due to their inability to play effectively. During the debate we had concerning Dishwater, many touted his past performances which led to him being selected for the Pro Bowl. Well that's all fine and dandy but as Jerry Hathaway said to Chris Knight in "Real Genius", "that was yesterday, what have you done for me today?" The only thing Bridgewater proved to me (and I dare say a number of Dolphins fans) this season was his ability to ride the bench and collect a paycheck. When given the opportunity to prove he was worth every penny of his $6 million contract, he was lethargic and just had the overall appearance that going into the game was more of a hinderance than anything. Skylar on the other hand at least TRIED.

    One of the things that has bothered me about NFL teams lately is the lost concept or art if you will of THE back-up quarterback. Johnny Unitis and Bob Griese had Earl Morrell. David Woodley and Dan Marino had Don Strock. Today, the Dolphins (and most other teams) have..."who used to be a starting quarterback that was cut?" The back-up quarterback used to be a cornerstone of any team's offense. Not only was he competent, but he was also secondary coach to the starter. I can remember many times Griese on the sideline going over photos talking to Morrell. I can remember many times Woodley and Marino on the sidelines going over photos talking to Strock. I heard Marino once say that he learned a lot about NFL quarterbacking from Don Strock.

    One thing I noticed in today's game with Dishwater, he was sitting on the bench. All bundled up. Not on the sideline with McDaniel, no clipboard in hand, no ear pierce in his ear, in no way trying to contribute the game. On the other hand, I can recall quite a few games game in which Thompson was doing just that...trying to keep in the game. That's what a back-up does. He stays involved in the game, he talks with the head coach, he talks to the starter when he comes to the sideline. He does what he can to help contribute to the team.

    I would absolutely LOVE it if the Dolphins kept Thompson as their designated back-up. I truly believe that he could contribute to the team for years to come and would add some much needed consistency that this team has been lacking for years.
     
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  18. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Skylar just inspired the defense I guess
     
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  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I was thinking of Garoppolo. He wouldn't fall into the category of inability to play effectively. He's injury prone though. But there are potentially some options at backup QB where I'd be willing to part with Thompson.

    Totally agree. And Philly winning the SB with Foles shows how important backup can be. This year SF doesn't go this far without Purdy. It's important to get that position right, especially with Tua at QB.
     
  20. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    McD not getting in a 4th and 1 play was terrible.

    However, I think one of the dumbest things he did all day was on their own 5 send 4 receivers on go routes on 3rd and 15. Like take the checkdown and punt the ball. McD has a lot to learn.
     
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  21. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    What's a punt going to get them? An extra 15 yards? I understand the play call.
     
  22. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    With a checkdown they could have put them on there own 30. Play call made no sense.
     
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  23. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Have you heard his PC after the game? He was told it was a 1st and 10, not a 4th and 1. He said "whether it was the officials, or coaching there was some communication that we had gotten the first down. So we were deploying a group of players for the first and 10 call. then it was articulated it was 4th down."

    So it sure sounds to me like he was told it was a first down. It also seems to me based on his choice of words and hearing him make these comments that it was likely the officials. He goes on then to say it was a piece of why we lost, but not the only reason.

    Either way though, if this came from the officials that it was first down... there's a major issue and discussion that needs to take place IMO.

    I also think that as smart of a guy as he is by all accounts of those in the league around him that he's going to use the issues of this year to come back a better coach next year. I think he's got that in him and alot of folks weve heard talk about him this year during the good times all said the same. Maybe this is a blessing in disguse afterall, but if it was an NFL official that told him first down... there's a major issue there. If it was one of his assistant coaches, that's a fireable offense. Especially if it's the same coach that gives him info after watching replays to tell him whether to challenge or not.
     
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  24. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    LOL.
    Skylar was the next to last pick taken. Purdy was the last pick. How ya gonna criticize that crap shoot of a pick because One guy is third string QB on a complete proven team and the other...isn't. Skylar balled out in the biggest game of his life. Coulda been better, but it woulda been good enough if the rest of the team would have stepped up. Sad imitation of an OL and the lack of a running game, more drops than missed passes and the Cinderella story ends with Pumpkin pie.
    Purdy has looked good and is balling too don't get me wrong, but to look at the two and the teams and situations and say we shoulda picked Purdy instead is weak sauce.
    EDIT: Sorry for the echo in here, guess I should read thru before replying to a post
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
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  25. Alan in England

    Alan in England Active Member

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    just out of interest when was the last time Miami won a play off game?
     
  26. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    That 4th and 1/2 yard fiasco is all on Coach, no matter what anyone told him. They reset the play clock for one thing

    And if they don't have a play every week in the game plan that they can run up to the line and execute in 10 seconds or less with a simple FIRE FIRE FIRE call or a hand signal or even a run pass option FIRE 1 for run FIRE 2 for pass than thats a coaching fail big time. No matter what personnel group is in.
     
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  27. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  28. Alan in England

    Alan in England Active Member

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    now waiting for the news that Boyer has been fired. Or am I being too optimistic?
     
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  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Way too optimistic. Ross might have seen too much encouragement fromb yesterday's game, and decided to keep Boyer.
     
  30. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    I think it's 60/40 Boyer is safe.
     
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  31. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I want him fired. But I don't actually think it's going to happen. I think as frustrating as he has been this year I do think he was in a tough spot:
    - X seemed banged up all year it seems - even missed a game or two
    - CB2 - Byron Jones - missed all year
    - CB3/SLCB - Nik Needham - out most of year
    - S - Brandon Jones - out most of year
    - We lost someone at LB too no? Since Duke Reilly was playing far too much.
    - had to play guys like undrafted Kohou, Keion Crossen, Justin Bethel, Fejeldham, Elijah Campbell ... it's just hard to win with those guys

    Now with that being said... that's the crutch for Boyer and why I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him. But I think he should go simply because running his Cover 0 and cover 1 stuff obviously worked well for us last year, and at times early on this year. However as the injuries piled up he was content to just keep running it. You can't do that when you are now relying on bottom of the roster guys to play like starters. They just don't have that ability. That means you have to adjust what you're doing and far too often Boyer continued to put these guys in poor positions by not adapting to the situation re: injuries. That's the #1 job of a coach IMO, to make it work with the guys you have, not force the guys you have into situations they aren't good enough for. Sure a guy like Kohou may rise, but that's an outlier and he was still burned alot in those situations when he was left with a bigtime coverage responsibility while Boyer sent the house. You can't do that. Now the reason IMO for the impressive D yesterday was the switch off to zone, and the massive reduction of cover 0 after they burned us several times with it. It was like something finally clicked for him yesterday :lol:

    So for that reason I still hope he's fired, but for those other reasons I suspect he may not be. Give him Jones, Jones and Needham back and we're back to the D we remember (although Byron Jones doesn't have age on his side either; like X at this point) and get some good capable LB's and I could see the Dolphins wanting to keep things stable on the defensive side.

    If you do keep Boyer though you have to have a backup plan and be prepared to pull the plug early next year if things aren't going well from the start.
     
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  32. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
  33. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Garropolo is going somewhere where he can start - he’s not taking a backup position.
     
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  34. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I missed the game, as I was, ironically, in Florida.

    I missed the patsies' game for the same reason, but I managed to catch some of the last regular season effort against the jests.

    I thought it was a valiant effort, considering the injury problems that the roster was suffering. I expected it to be a much bigger margin of defeat.

    It’s just a shame that they couldn’t hold the lead.
     
  35. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    I hope he’s fired, too - figuring out that the cover 0 wasn’t working with backups to backups in the 18th game was way too late. He should have been making adjustments 10 weeks ago.

    One resource I don’t think either he or a new DC will have is Byron Jones. I think the team is frustrated with him and ready to move on; and he has made no effort to show he wants to be here.
     
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  36. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua playing would have caused Allen not to throw those picks. Allen didn't throw any when playing against Tua in two games! Tua was issue all year with the Dolphins secondary. Tua playing would have caused Allen not to take more sacks in one game than the previous 2 combined. Tua just cannot stop from messing up the pass rush. Concussions, right?

    You guys are just unhinged when it comes to Tua. Just completely coo coo for Coco Puffs. You've lost any sort of objectivity. You all are demonstrably wrong about his talent and ablity to play QB and it's bruising your fragile little egos to the extent that your living in an alternate reality. The only issue Tua has is injuries. It's a real issue, but that's it. I just don't have it in me to treat morons with horrible opinions like they aren't morons with horrible opinions any longer.
     
  37. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Sam Madison made comments that really made it seem like he could have played through his injury. I am weary of criticizing players for not playing through injuries because if they **** up their future teams won't care and they will get dropped quickly but look at Armstead who could have had surgery and sat out the year but did everything he could to be out there.
     
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  38. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Your reply is unhinged. Playing the "we would have won with Tua" narrative is pointless and misguided, since we have a sample of Tua playing against the same buffalo team just three weeks ago, and we still lost.

    I never said anything about Tua affecting the play of the defense. We have played buffalo close in all three games this year and we lost two of them, one of those with Tua playing, one without.

    And regarding Tua, I've always said he is a good QB, I just dont think he's elite. I was not happy with us drafting him because of his injury history, not because I thought he sucked.
     
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  39. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    "Undrafted Kohou, Keion Crossen, Justin Bethel, Fejeldham, Elijah Campbell"
    I thought they actually got a lot out of the back ups this year. Did they always play at a starter level? No. But we were actually pretty deep. Is that Grier or the coaches or both? Where you're starting 3rd stringers regularly and getting pretty decent production I have to say maybe the coaching staff is actually doing something right. The outcome eventually was wrong but the process seems to be working. You can't win in this league with 3rd string talent starting. The players are just too good to even have a drop of 10-15% in talent.

    It's been a problem all year in getting plays in. Not sure what's going on but were breaking huddles with 10 seconds left. With the amount of movement in this system you just need more time. They need to be breaking at 15 at the latest IMO. This needs to get fixed.
     
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  40. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    When people say we win with Tua they don't mean if we play tomorrow. They mean if Tua is there and non QB related things still happen like 3 turnovers they would would win. Obviously if Tua plays the entire game plays out different but you know that isn't the point.
     

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