Tua is not the Problem

It's still a trait if it's a combination of 2 or more traits. In science, we usually refer to what you're talking about as a latent trait, i.e., something that can't be directly measured but can be measured through inference. That's precisely what efficiency stats are. They're measuring latent traits that are causal factors in the game. Every individual play that goes into passer rating increases or decreases the probability of winning the game. It's a causal factor being measured.

 

Considering how Flores had hobbled Tua they were legitimate questions.

Add into that the Flores law suit and if you’re a talking head on TV who had publicly supported Flores then it builds into the perception that super coach Flores was being held back by a noodle armed RPO QB.

 

I don't care who you are...THAT was effing HILARIOUS!!!!

Take THAT you know it all sports media people!!!!

 

Speaking of cold takes that didn’t age well, from 5:51 of the video in the OP
Paraphrasing - Miami wants to trade for Deshaun Watson because the GM wants someone to blame. It’s easier to blame Tua than to fix the D, fix the OL, get a deep outside threat, get a good playcaller..

Armstead, Chubb, Tyreek, McDaniel being the headline additions since that video was made.

 

Tua was an example in that post, not the point. PR's usefulness and use was the topic.

 

Cbrad made up some nonsense and I won’t let him get away with it.

 

As usual we can agree to disagree. It was PFF that ranked them 31st. Either way, you should finally admit that it was not the best supporting cast.

 

No.. for someone who likes to talk about "watch the tape", it sure seems like you don't watch the games. Tannehill had fantastic protection in that playoff game last year. He had a great running game, WRs played very well, and the defense was fantastic. He had about as great a supporting cast as you could hope for in a playoff game.

It was Tannehill that lost the game. No one else. That's why there was near unanimous agreement among Titans fans about who was to blame. Also, trotting out stats for a season isn't addressing the claim I made. I made a claim specifically about that one playoff game. That's what you called "nonsense". No, it's your take that's "nonsense". Show me watching that game again how Tannehill's OL failed him.

1st INT: Tannehill has all the time in the world.. no pressure at all.. and just makes a terrible throw for an INT.
2nd INT: No pressure and Tannehill just throws it to a defender he obviously didn't see running into the throwing lane.
3rd INT: Also no pressure.. Tannehill throws a ball tipped by the WR and DB, but clearly wasn't a well thrown ball.

NONE of his INTs were due to pressure. Watch the game dude. Tannehill has time on most of his throws. He had about as great a supporting cast as you could hope for in that game. Maybe you should admit that. Maybe admit all this stuff you've argued isn't specific to the playoff game I was talking about, i.e., none of your posts were really necessary.

 

Oh great! You're self proclaimed scout, GM, and now a neurologist!!! We're so lucky to have you here.

Way to completely miss the point on why this was posted again to continue to push your nonsense.

 

I don't understand why you do this stuff, cbrad. There's no two ways about it. Efficiency is not a physical trait. A person is efficient because their individual traits are really good.

 

I understand that. Your take only seemed to make sense if you thought i was trying to denigrate Tua, which I wasn't. There was really no reason, imo, to respond to my post with talking about my eyes deceiving me.

 

Cbrad, take a step back for a moment. You're arguing that Tannehill isn't elite because he had a bad game, and you're arguing that he had good protection n that game. But then you're ignoring the ****ty protection that he had ALL YEAR LONG, and lead the league anyways. So all year he elevated his **** team, but that doesn't matter in your evaluation?

 

Hitman, (whom I’m assuming you’re replying to because I can’t read his stuff but know his M.O.) pretends to be an expert on many things that he doesn’t have a first clue about. Lol… I’m telling you, he’s a troll who supports another team. That’s why he’s the only person I’ve bothered to block.

 

Yeah you couldn't be more wrong.

Metabolic rate is one of the most widely measured physiological traits, and it's a measure of the efficiency of converting some form of stored energy into cellular reactions. Almost every detection task, like a contrast sensitivity or visual field test, is measuring the efficiency of your sensory system in detecting signals in the presence of noise. Intelligence is considered a trait, and aptitude tests measure how efficiently people process certain types of information (i.e., how well they can match inputs with desired outputs). Health status questionnaires measure the ability of people to perform various activities — often, how efficiently they can do it — by using math to estimate the magnitude of the latent trait in question.

You're simply wrong about this. Not just by the literal definition, but by the way terms like "trait" and "efficiency" are used in science and medicine. Anyway, circling back to the original issue, passer rating is measuring a latent trait which is a causal factor in winning NFL games.

 

Lots of errors in your post. Tannehill had a slightly below average rating in 2021 so no he did not "lead the league anyways". His rating fits with the OL pass blocking stat, so there's no "elevating play" here. Secondly, I'm not arguing Tannehill isn't elite because he had a bad game. Every elite QB has bad games. I'm arguing he's not elite because his elite years (2019-2020) are looking more and more like outliers in what is statistically similar to a slightly above average career.

 

Self proclaimed? Since when does having an opinion about something mean you are claiming to be an expert? In my opinion the perception bias against lefties theory is a BS argument for why people hate on Tua. Doesn't mean I'm a neurologist just means I use common sense and have seen many lefties throw before without "mistrusting" them as the author of that theory claims.

 

Again with the claiming to be an expert crap. Never once have I "claimed to be an expert", I just use common sense and state my opinion, and never have I rooted for another team. Been a dolphins fan since 92, just tired of the endless disfunction and listening to the same old blind homers year in and year out.

 

Regarding Tua, he’s been doing pretty good. I think some are going a bit overboard. Hell, I didn’t even think he should play again after this last injury, but he is certainly resilient. That’s probably his best trait. He has played good at times and is doing much better with McDaniel.
I’m also not going to go overboard just yet. I mean, the Pickett Pitt game was not very good. It came down to the fourth quarter and bleeping iggy had to bail us out. What??? Holland also made that nice pick in the fourth. The near interceptions? He made some decent plays here and there.
Then the Lions. The Lions? They’re like the worst or one of the worst teams with the worst D in the league and again it came down the fourth quarter. It could have gone either way, but he did play good at the end and made some nice plays and that’s great. I’m just in wait and see mode or need to see more mode. However, I am a diehard Phin fan first and foremost, so I’m happy we’re wining and hope it continues. Peace!

 

LOL..... I was never talking about just one game. You mentioned the supporting cast. Well, the OL in the playoff game was the same one that stunk all year. The WRs were the same mostly bad and dinged up group. The TEs stunk and Henry probably shouldn't have been playing (as shown by his "best you can expect" 3 YPC).

I already acknowledged that Tannehill bombed in that game. It happens. He was the best player they had on offense all season and the worst player on offense in that game.

How any of them played in one game doesn't change how good they were on the season. Sorry, it just doesn't. Seems odd for a "stats guy" to try to make that argument but it is obvious why.

 

So now you admit you weren't talking about one game.... stop switching around your arguments.

IMO, still, Tannehill is a very good QB (not elite, I have never said he was elite even when he put up elite numbers in 2019). I am very very consistent in my approach to rating QBs. I always take into account the supporting casts. This 'elevate the supporting cast' idea that gets tossed around is nonsense. It is a simple fact that Tannehill's numbers in 2021 and 2022 are more like his numbers in Miami because his supporting cast is more like his supporting cast in Miami. Simple, supportable, logical argument. You should try it.

 

Resiliency is his best trait? Not accuracy? Not his quick release? Not his eye discipline? I think you are underrating Tua's play this season.

 

No integrity at all. You literally said "Completely and totally false. His OL was atrocious." in response to a claim I made about one playoff game. Have some integrity and admit you were wrong.

Once again, you have NO integrity. The "elite" argument was made in the same post about 2019, not 2021. You're terrible man. You're so intent on defending Tannehill no matter what — who are you anyway? his cousin or something? — that you don't even read posts carefully and just go off on responding to fantasy arguments against him.

Anyway, I'm done responding to you on this. And stop trying to pollute every thread into a Tannehill thread. You're not a Dolphins fan, just a Tannehill fan. It's sickening. And no Tannehill is NOT a very good QB, just slightly above average. His stats are demonstrating that quite clearly whether you like it or not.

 

Pretty good? Come on man… he’s either leading or top 5 in every major QB stat category. The Pitt game was his first game back from an injury that keep him out for 3 weeks and which you said he should never have even came back from. (I 100% disagree with that. Unless you think all players should retire after one concussion, why should Tua?) Anyhow, he was rusty, but it’s not like the Steelers don’t have well coached team. Other than against the Bills and Eagles They’ve been in all their games this season and lost by not much. And even with all of that he still put up a 93 passer rating which is above average.


As for Detroit… lmao… they have a terrific offense. Top 10 in the NFL. Yea, their defense needs some work, but Tua shredded them. I’m not really sure why you expect Tua’s play to help stop the Lions from scoring. Lol… I mean, and due to a fumble by our rookie TE, the Dolphins were in a 14-0 hole very early. Yet Miami’s offense brought them back and won the game.

 

Damn. Had to go into work today. Either way, here's to a good game today. Go Tua! Go Phins!

 

Typical semantic games by someone who cannot support his argument. How in the hell does the 31st ranked OL become "the best possible supporting cast" in a single game? It is a nonsensical way of saying that they played well in the game. You phrased it that way so you could blame Tannehill for the passer rating for the whole season. That is disingenuous. That is why you are flip flopping between discussing a game and a career.

Ah, attacking the poster when they defeat your arguments. Typical.

YOU brought up Tannehill. You just can't stand getting schooled by me. You should be used to it by now.

 

Cbrad, you just said efficiency is its own thing, but then talked about metabolic rate. Efficiency is a result, it is not a trait.

 

Back to talking about Tua. Tua was 21/30 for 302 yards and 3 TDs no INTs with a 135.7 rating against the 7th best pass defense in the NFL prior to this game — Chicago was giving up an 80.3 rating.

Tua's rating for the year is now at 115.9. Insane!

 

Metabolic rate is measuring the efficiency of a biological process. Metabolic rate is a trait (look it up). So yes, there are a lot of examples (see the others I gave) of how measures of efficiency are measures of traits.

 

But he has a weak arm and can’t throw on the run at all + he had like 3-4 bad passes against the Bears and Justin Herbert would have played a lot better in that game…

 

That was elite level QB play today except for a few doozers at the end. At this point there's really no viable critique against Tua being a future great QB (with Hill + Waddle as WRs) as long as he stays healthy. He's the odds on favorite to lead the league in passer rating at the end of the year. Would be amazing if he does that. Even Marino only did that once.

 

Bears traded away two of their best defensive players before this game. Just saying...

 

You aren’t just saying. You’re getting MVP caliber football from your ****ing quarterback and you nitpick and dismiss. It’s embarrassing. It is not behavior indicative of a dolphin fan

 

Who cares about all that, did you not see those 2 terrible throws at the end? /s in case it’s needed.

Looking forward to another week of people pointing out how great he was and others pointing out 2 terrible throws means we need to replace him.

 

Yeah well.. I guarantee the Dolphins are NOT replacing Tua no matter what a few posters say here. So get ready to enjoy many seasons of a top level passing offense. Just need to fix the defense and we're a serious contender.

 

Totally agree. Fix the defence and we are serious contenders.

 

Tua will be top 5 in Vegas for MVP after today. Stop crying.

 

Who has said to replace him?

You guys keeping arguing things that aren't being said, and it's part of the problem.

 

For the first time in Dolphin history

 

I do actually believe that is a distinct possibility. Tagovailoa has clearly demonstrated he is the Dolphins most valuable player.

Sure, you could argue it’s the Cheetah, but even with the Cheetah, Miami lost with Dishwater and Thompson at the helm and sadly, MVP candidacy is based on wins and popularity. Wish it weren’t so, but there it is.

Tua is 6-0 this season and 14-1 since Miami’s dreadful 1-7 start last season. I don’t see how he can’t be an MVP front runner.

 

That would arguably be even more amazing than just coming in 1st in passer rating because it would signify a huge change in perception among NFL talking heads. Prior to this game Vegas had Allen, Hurts, Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Herbert, Smith and Cousins ahead of Tua in MVP odds. Jackson, Herbert, Smith and Cousins I think Tua can leapfrog, but Allen, Mahomes and Burrow will be a bit tougher because of reputation (fair or not). Hurts will fall if Philly loses.

Anyway, first step is leading the league in passer rating at the end of the season. I doubt Tua could win MVP without that. Then we'll see.

btw.. last time any Dolphins player won MVP was Dan Marino in 1984.