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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    No matter how many times you say its still not true
     
  2. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Do you know for a fact it's not true? No, you don't. All indications are that Grier was the one who pushed Flores to play Tua.
     
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  3. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    There are no indications. If anything the indications are the other way. Flores has no say in who he plays and yet they couldn't make him tanks? Flores throws out all the dirt but never mentioned being forced to play players he didn't want to?

    There just isn't any reason to give Flores the benefit of the doubt after 3 years of shuffling QBs in and out.

    If we are going to just believe whatever we want to believe we could say it was Ross
     
  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I find it amazing that Grier is the one who officially has final say over all personell decisions, but people always blame someone else for bad personell decisions. It's like Grier is the general manager, but somehow avoids taking responsibility for anything that goes wrong.

    Remember one of the things that came out during the Flores firing is that he was asking for more say over personell decisions, and he and Grier were butting heads over that. That was reported. So yes, indications are it was Grier who wanted to see his top 5 pick on the field even though he wasn't ready.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
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  5. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Flores wanting more power is not an indication of him being forced to play Tua. We never got one report or leak that said playing Tua was forced on him. Its a fan created theory based on absolutely nothing substantial. I will once again point out that Flores dished all the dirt but never said a word about that. That is all you need to know.

    But in all seriousness if it wasn't Flores it could just as easily have been Ross. The best you could say here is we really not sure. Repeating this theory like its factual is ridiculous.

    Grier deserves the blame for things that are actually on him like drafting Tua.
     
  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I blame Grier for everything. He is the head honcho on the football side. He is the one who hired Flores also, so even if it was Flores who wanted Tua (I don't think it was), Grier should ultimately be the one held responsible as he is the one who hired Flores. Grier has final say over everything personell related, so he should be held responsible for everything.
     
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  7. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    **Cough! Cough!!**

     
  8. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Check down Herbert was on fire last night. 37 completions for 238 yards. 57 passes, 0 TD's.

    I swear people on here that idolize him have never watched him play a full game, they only see the thirty second highlight package.
     
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  9. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    This is just click bait. There is absolutely no arguing that Herbert can throw it longer and with more velocity than Tua all over the field. I don't know why that is even a topic of discussion. Tua's longest in game throw ever was 55.5 air yards. We've seen Herbert hit recievers in stride for TDs at over 64 air yards with ease. I've also seen practice video of Herbert throwing it for 80 air yards, and throwing it 62 air yards flat footed by just flipping his wrist.

    Also, let's not forget that Herbert is playing through torn rib cartilage right now. He is obviously not throwing it 100%
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I've watched him play, he has a way better arm than Tua. Can throw it all over the field farther and with more velocity than Tua can.

    He is also playing through torn rib cartilage right now. He is not 100% and it shows.
     
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  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Oh, he's injured?
     
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  12. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    It’s weird how Tua’s name just keeps popping up in the statistical company of all the best QBs in the league.
     
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  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I see what you're trying to do here, but it falls on it's face, for one simple reason:

    Herbert hurt still throws as far as healthy Tua, and, more importantly, he's actually playing in games.
     
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  14. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    But Herbert still has only two more touchdowns than Tua has on the year.
     
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  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Injury issues aside, there are serious questions with Herbert too. So far Herbert is statistically only about half as good as you need to be for an average SB winning QB (in the year they win it). I'd be at least a bit concerned if I were a Chargers fan.

    In 2020 Herbert's 98.3 rating was 4.7 points above average, in 2021 Herbert's 97.7 rating was 6.9 points above average, and in 2022 Herbert's 93.1 rating (after 257 attempts) is only 4.4 points above average. If Herbert can't break out into that 10+ above league average rating range he's probably not the right QB either. We'll see how he develops, but there are serious questions with him too.

    On another note.. I think it's funny that Tua is still #1 in passer rating right now among starters, though it's after only 115 attempts. The narrative surrounding him will be very different if he keeps this up lol.
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Cause of that one miraculous quarter. We'll see what it looks like at the end of the season.
     
  17. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    -Broken Leg
    -Broken Clavicle
    -Concussion
    -Fractured Ribs/rib tendons
    -Multiple shoulder issues causing question tags.

    That is actually Herbert’s injury history. He is not the iron man you make him out to be. If you hit him, he will break.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
  18. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I like how you make it seem it doesn't count for whatever reason. lol

    Add in his injury history now and the fact that he's just not a winner.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Because long-term, one miraculous quarter is meaningless if at the end of the season they aren't close.
     
  20. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Miraculous quarter or not, Tua has been out for two weeks and, if I recall correctly, didn't make it past the first quarter of the Bills game. Despite all of that, Herbert still only has two more touchdowns, so...
     
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  21. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I don't know... Evidence points to us...ya know.... Winning with Tua and that's really all I need to go off of. I know we won with Jay Fiedler too, but Fiedler was the weakest link in our chain on those teams. It's different with Tua. We can win with him and win big in my options. I mean big games... He's coming back against Pittsburgh. I personally expect him to be a little rusty and a little cautious at first. This won't be an easy game. He's not going to throw 5TDs in a route over the Steelers. Our O line SUCKS. Let's be clear on that. Even so, if we can just keep his jersey clean, we'll get the win. I'm personally terrified at this moment. Our offensive line is the equivalent to letting your children ride bikes in the middle of a busy intersection.
     
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  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Tua played off a damaged hip and got no consideration for it. He came back from damaged ribs and an injured hand and went 7-1 last season and not once did any of his detractors suggest that his being injured should be considered when they criticized his performance. But I guess Herbert gets an asterisk because he's **checks notes** not Tua.
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Herbert is playing through his injuries and winning, Tua cannot play through his injuries. And the whole purpose of that tweet was to somehow equate Herbert's arm strength with Tua's, which is just a ridiculous argument. They are not even in the same league in terms of arm strength. It's click bait and should not even be taken seriously.
     
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  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Get out of here with that. The tweet pointed out the fact that Tua gets no love for things he does well, while Herbert gets no blame for things he does poorly. Thanks for proving it.

    And regarding winning: Herbert's won three more games in 13 more starts. It took a muffed punt in overtime last night to get his career win/loss record to .500. But I get it. He looked better barely winning half his games than Tua has with a much higher percentage. Thanks for proving it again.
     
  25. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    It was a troll tweet. So you are saying Herbert should be criticized for only throwing it 53 yards while hurt? or Tua should be praised for only being able to throw it 55 yards when healthy?

    If the ball is under thrown it's under thrown. I don't care if it's Herbert or Tua.

    But we all know damn well that when both are healthy, Herbert can out throw Tua by a mile. It should not even be a topic of debate.

    It's a rare occasion to see Herbert under throw someone or throw with poor velocity. We see Tua do it all the time.
     
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  26. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    SMH.

    This discussion is like two friends having the following conversation:
    "Tua doesn't hate cats."
    "Justin Herbert loves cats. There's a difference."
    "But last year, you said Tua hated cats. But this year, he started a building to foster homeless cats."
    "Justin Herbert's been raising cats at his house since he got drafted."
    "Okay. I guess that's good for him. Didn't you tell me last week that Tua hates the environment? I read where he just bought an electric car. So what you said wasn't true."
    "Justin Herbert lives in a solar-powered home..."
     
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  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  28. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    It takes more than a big arm to be a great QB though. Tua has enough arm to win games but his accuracy and anticipation are elite, that's how you win games with him.

    If it was just arm strength then Jeff George, JaMarcus Russell, Kyle Boller and Mike Vick would be the GOAT's.
     
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  29. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    OMG. Here we go again. Is Tuanon really trying to knock on Herbert in an attempt to prop up Tua. How comically sad. It is a foolish and failed attempt.

    Someone listed his injury history? Ha Ha!! Those injuries were early in his college career. Every football players has a list of some injuries. That's football, but the important point to remember is that Herbert finished off his college career healthy, strong and successful. He finished with two MVP awards whilst Tua finished in the hospital, on the operating table with the most serious of his injuries. C'mon guys, step it up with your arguments. The ones being put forward here are extremely weak. They prove the oppotite of their intention. Check down Herbert? Haha! The king troll speaks…or types out of his anus once again. It's really amazing. Congrats.
    Even after tearing his rib cartilage, he continued to play the game and made some surprisingly nice throws whilst wincing in severe pain.He wasn't thrown down like a little rag doll and carted off on a stretcher doing that creepy fencing thing. He is also missing his great LT and #1 WR. C'mon. We would all be psyched had the team drafted him. That draft is the biggest reason for why Grier should be shown the door with his bald head. Sorry. True.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're confusing me with someone else maybe. I don't know much about Herbert, I only talk about him when others bring him up, like the last couple comments.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    We. Were. Told. By. The. Team. That. Tua. Was 100%. Healthy. Or. He. Wouldn't. Have. Been. Playing.
     
  32. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You suffer from a sad and creepy level of Herbertitis. You throw out every excuse in the book for him and then you seemingly mock the injuries of Tua. That is pretty pathetic. I wouldn't expect any less from you though.

    I can't wait until they go into Los Angeles later with a healthy crew and Tua beats Herbert again.
     
  33. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    Not all of us. I want them to take Hurts in a later round and use that 1st round pick for OL help to build the trenches. To this day I still wish they would've done this. As for that overall draft, I agree with you. Iggy in the 1st, really?
     
  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  35. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  36. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don’t agree with all of this nonsense about Tagovailoa having a weak arm. I really don’t but, for the sake of conversation let’s just say he does…and Herbert is a god at throwing the ball…

    Id rather have Tua and be winning than having a god throwing further, faster with more velocity and losing.

    When you look at Tagovailoa’s first 25 games as a starter and Herbert’s first 25 games as a starter, there’s no comparison.

    Tua is a WINNER and being Dolphins fans, I just assumed we all wanted to win
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What a load.

    Wins are a TEAM stat, it's an erroneous way of evaluating a QB.
     
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  38. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you constantly bring up Marino and how he shows that you need a TEAM around the QB. It's weird because even Marino didn't have a complete team around him and that's why he never won a SB. Now you are mentioning team wins as if that is s good measuring stick for a QB and trying to suggest that is why Herbert isn't good? Seriously? See Marino. You would be psyched if Herbert was our QB. Team win percentage is a terrible way to judge a QB.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2022
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  39. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Look, football IS a team sport and the quarterback is one cog in that offensive machine. There are so many of you that are on Herbert's jock strap that he is a BETTER quarterback that Tagovailoa and the reasons so many of you provide are ridiculous and completely irrelevant to the success of a team.

    I don't care how far Herbert can throw the ball. I don't care how much velocity is on his throws. I don't care if Herbert has a "stronger arm" than Tagovailoa. None of that matters...it's all irrelevant. Here's what matters as it pertains to quarterback passing...

    Can the quarterback effectively lead the offensive unit on the field?
    Can the quarterback make the right throws on passing plays?
    Can the quarterback accurately throw the ball?
    Can the quarterback effectively recognize defensive coverage?
    Can the quarterback effectively recognize pressure and make a positive play?
    Can the quarterback protect the ball and not throw interceptions?

    Everything else, falls on the perspective members of the offensive unit.

    Can the offensive line effectively block so the quarterback can make those throws?
    Can the offensive line effectively block so the play can develop?
    Can the receivers catch the ball that's thrown within the catch zone?

    When you look at Tagovailoa and his first 25 games as a starter and Herbert and his first 25 games as a starter, there is no comparison. The Dolphins with Tagovailoa have won more games than the Chargers with Herbert. When you look at every relevant quarterback statistic in both quarterbacks' first 25 games, there is no comparison...Tua is the BETTER quarterback?

    Am I saying that Tagovailoa is the next best thing since Marino, Montana, Manning, Brady, Rodgers et al? Not at all, but I am saying that based on what we've seen from both players, Tua is the better quarterback.
     
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  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    uhhhh.......:oldtoker::drink:
     
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