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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Allen had an above average performance statistically, but he missed some key throws, including the game winner. It was not a great performance.
     
  2. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I said since the day we drafted him I didn't think he will be a bust if he stays healthy (big if), and will actually be a good QB barring injury. However, I don't think he has the tools to be truly elite, and I still believe that.

    He made some nice throws yesterday and he did what was necessary to win, but I would not say it was an elite performance.
     
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  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It was a good performance, not elite but good. Much better than "OK". As far as whether he can be "elite", well not in terms of physical tools but certainly it's possible in terms of production which is all that matters. Will he do that? Who knows, but I think Tua has pleasantly surprised a lot of us concerned about his performance last year. McDaniel and Hill are certainly key parts of that, but you have to admit Tua himself looks different now from last year. He didn't in game 1, but he sure did yesterday.
     
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  4. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    People always talk about how the game can slow down for quarterbacks once they've been in the league for a couple of seasons. I think that is definitely happening for Tua right now. This is year three and things are starting to slow down for him. Game speed is still insane, but he's acclimated to it and he's gotten accustomed to the chaos. Not having any time to get rid of the ball is becoming a normal thing for him. If he can continue to thrive with a lackluster O line and no time, then imagine what he can do if he ever gets behind a solidified offensive line that can give him time. So... As the saying goes, if you do something every day you'll eventually become good at it. How good you become at it is a different story, but Tua is figuring things out. There's no denying that.
    I think in the case of Tua, it was only a matter of time before he "got it." He's very smart, extremely confident, and is an accurate thrower. That talent was always there and it's starting to pay off. I think he's definitely benefitting from coach McDaniel and the "system" he's implemented. I agree that Tua would be no further along then he was his rookie season if Flores was still here. I'm not blaming Flores, all I'm saying is that Flo had his heart set elsewhere. I think of Russell Wilson and the impact that coach Carroll had on his career. Had Wilson gone elsewhere and played for an unstable franchise would he have been as good as he was...Or is? I think of McDaniel and Tua's Pete Carroll. I hope he's here for a while.
     
  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    That and coaching matters. See also: Trevor Lawrence. Looked completely lost despite being one of the most elite prospects ever. Year two, swap the dumpster fire of Meyer for the stability of Pederson and he looks like the elite player expected.

    For us, I think all we are seeing is just how badly Flores mismanaged the team as a whole and offense in particular. He absolutely seems like a guy maxed out at defensive coordinator level. He NEEDS a guy above him top handle personnel conflicts and problems, to keep him in line a bit and he can't go anywhere near an offense or be making calls on offensive prospects.
     
  6. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Head to head metrics from yesterday;

    Rating;
    Tua - 123.8
    Allen-94.7

    QBR;
    Tua -79.0
    Allen-60.4

    Completion %;
    Tua -72.2%
    Allen-66.7%

    Yards Per Attempt;
    Tua- 10.3
    Allen- 6.3
     
  7. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    I'm not quite sure how to quantify this but I wonder how Tua would have done last year if Flores had hired someone like McDaniels (I know he wouldn't have taken the role) instead of the absolute dumpster fire that we did have.

    Like obviously the scheme is important but I wonder how much of "fixing" Tua was actually giving him a head coach who believes in him.
     
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  8. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Our offensive coaching last year was horrible. Flores was not a good head coach. He was a good DEFENSIVE coach who was in over his head.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    IMO, the most flawed idea that shows up in the NFL fandom is that elite quarterbacks are elite no matter what situation they are in.

    Quarterbacks are very dependent on the talent around them and the coaching staff. This is the first year that Tua has talent around him and a coaching staff that is not only competent but actively rooting for him to succeed.
     
  10. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    But that's sort of my point. Would have only changing one of them worked? If Flores had picked a different offensive coach then would that have got Tua going a year earlier or would the complete lack of faith in Tua from Flores have still stopped us from seeing the Tua we have this year.
     
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  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    "Tua can only throw deep on busted coverage to wide open receivers because he can only throw floating ducks that will normally get picked off by a safety."
     
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  12. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    "Zero velocity. He can't fit the ball into tight windows."
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah that was the best offensive play of the game. Clutch too. I still think the defensive stand at the end was more impressive given how long the defense was on the field, but that kind of throw is exactly what I think we'll see more of as the season progresses. We're just 3 games in. There's still a lot of chemistry that's going to develop between Tua and Hill/Waddle.
     
  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Ruh-roh!
     
  15. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Clickbait article. Tua's playing.
     
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  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, McDaniel never says somebody who is potentially on the injury report will be playing. He said his crystal ball was broken, essentially saying anything is possible and that asking on Monday is too soon to say. That's a far cry from suggesting there's a good chance he'll be out for the game.
     
  17. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    I think its clear he wasnt the problem. Which was the point of this thread. And you see it around the nfl. Invest in your young qb, give him tools, protection and a scheme tailored to his strengths, and let him cook.
    The old way of forcing a qb to play the brand of football your coach wants is over
     
  18. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That was a very good throw, actually I would say it's the best throw I've ever seen Tua make.

    Still not elite arm strength level, but a strong throw none the less.
     
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  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I’m glad you posted this so I didn’t have to do the digging. I find hitman’a assessment a bit amusing. Statistically, his numbers were no better than Tagovailoa last season but…”he had an above average game”. Had Tagovailoa posted those exact same stats in a losing effort against Buffalo, whoa Nellie would the daggers be coming out at how Tua was flat out garbage.

    Brad assesses that Tua was above average and not elite. Maybe, maybe not but here’s the thing about football. It’s a TEAM sport and I don’t give a crap what fools like Rex Ryan or any other analyst says…this TEAM is elite.

    Elite teams FIND a way to win and Miami has done just that…against a schedule that many forecasted us to be either 0-4 or 1-3 at best.

    But that’s ok…all of “you” keep bashing the Dolphins and we’ll see you at the end of the season as the AFC East Champions.
     
  20. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...power-rankings-2022-1-32-poll-plus-rating-qbs

    1. Miami Dolphins (3-0)

    Tua Tagovailoa is off to the start every Dolphins fan dreamed of in his third NFL season. He ranks second in the league in passing yards and is already halfway to matching his career high in touchdown passes with eight. He also leads the NFL in QBR and is second in yards per attempt. The new coaching staff and improved supporting cast around him seems to have unlocked the potential Miami saw when he was drafted No. 5 overall in 2020, and it's a big reason the Dolphins are the AFC's lone unbeaten team entering Week 4. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques
     
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  21. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a huge Zappe fan. Will be interesting to see.
     
  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Zappe will start.
     
  23. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    No chance. Alot like people thinking Thompson is going to start Thursday if Tua can't go.

    You start those guys late in the season if/when your season is over.
     
  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Betcha he won't, not until the Pats are eliminated from the playoffs.
     
  25. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Seems ESPN agrees on my assessment of Miami’s elite status
     
  27. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    So like…week 9?
     
  28. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Yowzers !!!
     
  29. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yeah, that sounds about right.
     
  30. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, watched replay of Browns game last night and Bissett looked like a HOF GB in that game. Makes me wonder how terrible the offense plan really was.
     
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  31. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    We shall see. Belichick really likes him, and there have been tweets out already about it.
     
  32. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Their situation is different.
     
  33. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    A good breakdown of Tua's game on Sunday:
     
  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Omigawd! The Dolphins don't care about Tua's health. I guess. One of the greatest Tua haters is now bemoaning his return to the game on Sunday. Probably because it took away his chance to use durability as one of the reasons why he ranked him the 29th best (read: 4th worst) QB in his preseason rankings. What a flocking knob.
     
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  35. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I love how Florio is seriously comparing his old man out of shape back problems to a world class athlete. lol
     
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  36. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Florio has always been a huge douche.
     
  37. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The drumbeat continues:


    Notice how they're now setting up the future narrative by saying "I just said that if he wilts under pressure, he's not the guy". Not one of them had the balls to admit that he's had three good games against three good defenses.
     
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  38. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    These sports writers are going to continuously put Tagovailoa down. Tua doesn’t fit their narrative of a quarterback. Maybe it has something to do with him being a lefty.

    I remember how the sports press was alway comparing Steve Young to Joe Montana and it took winning the Super Bowl before he finally received any respect. Now they sing praises of him.

    Probably going to be the same thing for Tua
     
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  39. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is from before the season started. From before they stripped the 1st next year.
     
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  40. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    What does being a lefty have to do with it? The complaints about Tua have been pretty clear, mainly lack of arm strength, athleticism, and lack of durability.

    Michael Vick was a lefty and no one ever complained about his arm strength because he had a cannon. Being lefty has nothing to do with it.

    There are some legitimate criticisms of Tua, but Tuanons thinks everyone should declare him great when he has not proven that yet.
     
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