Tua is not the Problem

They want him to win singlehandedly. This is simply based on his draft position, it has been brought up numerous times in these debates. They feel a quarterback who was drafted that high shouldn't need a stacked team around him to succeed.

 

Everything I have heard Hill say has been positive. His interviews have always been good and positive. His support of QB and teammates has been positive. Glad he is a Dolphin.

 

I'm not so sure Tua is second tier. that is my concern.

Can you name me another QB that can not make NFL throws (coupled with boneheaded decisions) when the pocket breaks down or when he is on the move/ not fully set?

Tua is ideal under ideal circumstances that require quick throws but if the team is trailing and the pocket breaks down he looks really, really bad.

i am not trying to be condescending when i say name me another QB that has that defeciency.

 

How many bad QB's have you really seen go to the Super Bowl?

 

I root for Tua, I like the guy. It is pretty obvious when watching other QB's his arm is just not there.

 

How could you not root for the kid????!!!

This isn't about Tua the human being. This is about seeing a continual trend and sweeping it under the rug. I was hoping to see a different QB out there and he is no doubt aided by Hill and Waddle.... But for the most part he is the same guy we saw in 2020 and 2021. There is nothing special about him physically. He is what he is and I think we are close to his ceiling and if this is it - it's not enough.

 

https://dolphinstalk.com/2022/09/tua-tagovailoa-all-22-review/

 

You earned my 'like' just off those first few words alone. I aspire to be like you someday, my friend!

 

I could see that being true- a great player, a complimentary teammate, but also a total 'me guy' when he's not getting his way. Sometimes a change in scenery fixes that, sometimes it doesn't. Hoping that we just keep winning and that's never an issue.

 

That is precisely what we need answered by the end of this season. I think the hope is that as he gets more experience those things improve. He has to learn to concede a play and live for another down and make that determination faster. Not wanting to give up on a play is how he got hurt in college. He really needs to get it thru his head, because those situations are when he just looks awful.

 

The league's history is littered with Highly drafted QB's that busted bigtime or needed more around him. It happens all the time.

I need to see more than one game this year to decide if he is good or not. We will know by the end of this season one way or another.
This whole thing was setup masterfully by Grier to make a decision this season and make a move for a QB in the next draft, until Ross and Beale torpedoed that. Idiots.

 

It was set up beautifully. But now that that's gone, and the 49ers are likely to do well enough that we pick in the 20's, the only way to pick top 8 or so and get a QB in a QB strong draft is to trade Tua. If Tua improves on last year (as I think he will) and he's at least a bit above average, then it's very likely you can get a team to trade at least a 1st for him. A lot of GMs would look at him as a promising young QB regardless of what anyone here thinks.

So there's still a path. But it rules out keeping Tua while grooming a potential replacement, which would have been the best option. In other words, it becomes a much more risky move thanks to Ross.

 

They aren't trading Tua for anything of note. If he ends up with any real value after this season then it would be unlikely they would want to get rid of him.

 

To be fair, a "bad year" from Tua wouldn't look a whole lot different from last season. He's efficient. He's conservative. He releases quickly and he's accurate. It's not like he's going to have 14 TD's and 26 INT's this season. His numbers will be at least respectable.

 

That's the conventional wisdom. But McDaniel drafting Thomson gives me some hope he understands how important it is we're not stuck with average or slightly above average at QB. This is only Tua's 3rd year and he drafts a competitor, however unlikely it is that he unseats Tua. It just suggests he might not be willing to settle for slightly above average, in which case yeah you could see such a trade.

 

The Texans and Broncos were not interested in trading for Tua last year when we were negotiating the trade for DeShaun Watson. He’s not going to have much of a trade market.

 

Sean Payton enters the debate as a ‘Tua is the problem guy’.
Interesting since he was linked to Miami. And a guy Ross clearly respects/wanted.

 

Set up masterfully by Grier? WTF are you smoking? All he had to do was make the right picks in the 2020 draft and we'd be vying for a Superbowl right now. Grier is part of the idiot club along with Ross and Beale.

Yeah he is good at making trade deals, but that's about it, his wheeling and dealing will never make up for his bad drafting.

 

Collins, Dilfer, Grossman, Jimmy G, goff, Peyton as a neckfused corpse that last time, didnt hasselback get seattle to a superbowl? Foles, jake delhomme… i could continue for quite a while.
Hes better than that tier

 

For some, I think they want him to be Herbert, for obvious reasons, but he never will be. They cannot see/accept how he could develop into an elite QB, since it won't be into Herbert. Luckily, or maybe sadly, the further we get from the trauma (the 2020 draft) the more repressed the reason for the triggers are, however the triggers are there. So every time he hops a ball, or cannot throw a cross body rocket falling away 50 yards down field, they are filled with unreasonable rage and don't know how to deal with their endocrine system. Every time he does good things there is that little voice looping in their head, "Not Herbert. Not Herbert. Not Herbert."

 

Watching the game again it becomes clear Tua really struggles playing under center. The RPO offense that we had last year was a much better fit for him than the Shanahan system.

He doesn’t like or isn’t comfortable taking his eyes off the defense when he has to drop back and play action from under center.

 

Most of those didn't win it. Among those that won the SB I think only 3 in the last 30 years were mediocre in the year they won the SB: Dilfer, Bradford, and Peyton (2nd time). Otherwise, every SB winning QB was instrumental in winning it. Some like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson and Mahomes are just elite in general, while others like Eli, Flacco and Foles were not but played very well in the playoffs and were a key reason for the SB win.

So maybe 90% of the time you need a QB that is a "solution" rather than "not being a problem" per se, though given how important the QB position is, if you're not a solution then you are a problem.

 

And just like those second tier QBs, we'll struggle to make the playoffs, and never win a Super Bowl.

You can't be mediocre. Either be bad so you can draft a stud QB, or have a stud QB and go to the playoffs.

 

Doesn't THAT alone tell everyone what the consensus is on Tua?

 

Nooo...it's that we don't see ANY way that Tua is every an elite QB of any sort.

I've said ALL ALONG that a Tua is at best a slightly above average NFL QB. Barring serious injury, I expect Tua to have a decent NFL career. I'm not interested in trying to build a team around that guy. You gonna build a team around Jay Fielder? LMFAO. You guys I think are mesmerized by his collegiate numbers, and the pundit talk leading up to his overdraft position.

 

Nice to finally be on the same side of the debate with you

I wonder what our old pal FinD thinks of Tua.

 

I know right? I've realized the error of trying to build around a flawed QB, regardless of his positives.

I haven't heard from FinD in forever. Talked to him a couple times on FH, but that was years ago now. Miss that guy.

 

I was 50/50 on Tua.. Last year in Club I posted after the last game that Tua saw his last snap as a Dolphin.... Shockingly, Flores got fired (not shockingly after everything that came out after).. It seems like plan A last year was Watson. Plan B was Brady / Sean Payton after the season ended. We settled on plan C.

I for one am very happy with Mike McDaniel and hope plan B doesn't happen. With Giselle about to curb stomp Brady that combo is not going to happen. We also have our guy in McDaniel.

I find it very interesting that Sean Payton also seems to see Tua for what he is.

I just think we are reaching critical mass with Tua and much like Tannehill hope we don't have to wait another 4 years to move on.

He's got 16 games to prove me wrong. I hope he does. But my prospects for this season have gone down significantly if we still have Tua circa 2020/2021 at the helm, completely dependent on a dominant defense to score points and keep Miami in games. That **** is going to implode sooner than later if things don't get better offensively from him. I'm not looking for a Ryan Fitzpatrick gunslinger mentality/ grit. I'm looking for a guy that can perform when circumstances aren't perfect.

 

I don't even think you need a "stud" QB.

Even a Ryan Fitzpatrick with this offense could really open things up. We need someone that doesn't panic when his first reads aren't open and can actually throw on the run or make low probability plays a few times a game.. Or not get completely shut down when it gets cold like the putrid performances in Ten and Buf.

 

Yeah, obviously you can win with a flawed QB, I'm just saying, if you don't have a stud, then you should always be trying. But guys that have cannons, but have some flaws, I'm much more willing to give those guys time. But weak armed QBs who also make bad decisions? Move on as quickly as possible. Haha

 

He stopped by last season...or the season before? Anyway, I chatted with him for a few minutes. He's doing well and just focusing on life beyond football. Seemed really happy.

Hopefully he swings by this season if we start piling up some wins.

 

Ryan Tannehill would’ve been perfect for this Shanahan system. You need a QB that can go under center and utilize play action, that’s not Tua.

 

There were teams that were interested in trading for him though, like the Commanders. Funny you would leave that out though.

 

He was one of the biggest homers for Tua pre-draft. This is from shortly before he left pre-draft:
https://thephins.com/threads/tuas-agent-dropping-miami-hints-or-nah.94907/#post-3246005

Of course I thought Tua might finally be our franchise QB too pre-draft, but opinions change once you see the QB in NFL action.

 

So, we've gone from "Tua can't throw long passes" to "Tua's not a good play action QB"? After a WIN?

 

If you aren't in love with Herbert then that wasn't referring to you. Tua is way better than Fielder. Your memories are tainted if you think they are really similar. You also haven't been paying attention to the totality of his play. Fielder never had his accuracy, pocket feel, escape ability, or release. Also, they already have built a team around him, so your interest doesn't matter. Not meaning to be mean, it's just what happened. If Tua gets consistent with his accuracy, and lowers the bad decisions, you don't think he is a good/great QB? Really? Like really, really?

He is 16-8 with a horrific O line, no running game, inconstant WRs and a mostly great D. Well, I should say was 15-8. Those factors are no longer the case. He now has average O line, much improved running game, and elite WRs. I also expect the D to at least be mostly great with the potential to just be great. The team he has now makes the playoffs with QB play that was his average so far, and if he improves, post season wins! I am so pumped about this year that I bought the douchyest Dolphins starter jacket I could for winter in Portland. Have seen nothing to pump the brakes on being pumped.

And for what it's worth, I wanted a trade back and Love. I wasn't sold on Herbert or Tua at the time. My hope for him is based off his play as a Dolphin. If there is a redo of the 2020 draft Herbert goes 1 and Burrow goes 2. No one debates that now. (there's probably a guy)

 

There's always going to be an argument in regards to Tua. I'm personally not a big fan of his, but he IS the guy right now and we are winning games with him under center. The problem is that we never seem to win the games that matter with him. He's played downright HORRIBLE when the games have mattered the most and that is my main concern with him.
Now lets pretend for a moment that we do actually make the playoffs this winter. To me...We're a one and done sacrificial slaughter to whoever we play. There's no way this team advances in the playoffs with Tua playing scared and shrinking in the cold weather climates. If that's the Tua that we continue to see, then I'm all for moving on from him. There's just something there with him that screams counterfeit. I don't see a superstar quarterback and that's what you expect to draft with the 5th overall pick in ANY draft. Now...That doesn't mean that he can't prove me wrong. God knows I've supported him the entire time he's been here, but he has yet to win us a game where the defense HASN'T bailed us out. Believe that time will come again...It may be as early as next week against Baltimore, but it will definitely happen against Buffalo. Both of these teams are going to move the ball on us and our defense is going to struggle to make plays against two of the better quarterbacks in the league. That in turn is going to flip to Tua's side of things. Basically, he's going to have to match whatever Lamar Jackson/Josh Allen do to us. Tua doesn't need to have a rocket arm that can throw a ball 70 yards from his knees...JaMarcus Russell had a rocket arm and he couldn't diagnose a defense to save his life. Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Matt Leinart...All had super strong rocket arms and were downright terrible quarterbacks in the NFL. No...Tua doesn't need those physical traits to be a great quarterback. But he does need to be able to read and diagnose a defense, and he needs to be able to make quick/smart decisions within the width of seconds out there. In other words, he needs to make up for any physical limitations he may have by being great at all the other aspects that come with being a quarterback in the NFL. So far, we've got a winning record with him...But we had a winning record with Jay Fiedler too. I'm not saying he's Fiedler, but he's also not a guy that can put a team on his back and win a game all by himself for you if necessary. That's what elite quarterbacks do (when they have to). To me, Tua plays scared as opposed to a guy like Skylar Thompson who just goes out there and lets it rip. I personally want to see him just "let it fly", but the problem is that every time he's done that...It's proved to be a costly mistake.

 

I was just using Fiedler as a reference to a not strong armed QB, not saying Tua was no better than him. Although you love to tout W/L, Fiedler had a pretty good one. i don't agree that they built a team around Tua. What/who was brought in specifically for Tua? Given that they seemed intent in replacing Tua, or at least intently were pursuing options, the pieces brought in seem great for any QB.