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Flores FIRED - Grier SAFE (Harbaugh NOT Coming)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I think keeping Grier is a huge freaking mistake, but I am honestly not all that put out by losing Flores. Everyone wants to talk about how he went 8-1 to end the season...but what about the 1-7 to start it? Is that somehow now excusable because he pulled the team out of the dive? Because he went 1-3 last season to start. I won't count 2019 against him because that team was gutted, but losing that many games to start your season is killing your chance of making the playoffs and his coaching absolutely cost us a couple of those games just by itself.
     
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  2. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well the signs sure indicate it was a pretty bit more than a simple preference; especially if the reports today are true that all the banging for Watson was coming from Flores. That's alot more than a simple preference if true; that's a coach knowing he's being thrown under the bus and being hamstrung by a decision made outside of the desired framework of teamwork, communication and collaboration that should be in place between a HC and GM.

    Pretty hard to get behind a guy when he doesn't fit what you want to do. Clearly Flores tried to do so; we redesigned this whole offense heading into and during this season specifically to cater to Tua's abilities in a system that resembles what he was used to at Alabama. That's not a coach using it for an excuse and taking a bad approach to a bad situation; that's a coach trying to overcome the bad situation he's been put in by doing exactly what you want your coach to do; try and make your system fit the player; especially at the QB position. At some point though when it's clear its not going to work and it is going to cost you your job you try to find a way to get an improvement, or at least make it known when the ship is sinking that you didn't rip open the hull. How else should he respond when the season is off to a bad start; the media is calling for his job when you know that's a direct result of your GM not listening to you and helping you build your vision.

    Based on the information we've learned today it sure seems like Grier was the cause of this rift and potentially Ross himself as well knowing how infatuated he was with Tua as well. Once those lines get drawn and people are calling for your job like it or not; everyone goes into self preservation mode. Publicly Flores backed Tua. Tua said it himself Flores assured him he's the guy etc. etc. It's not like the coach didn't try; but I'd never call it an excuse on Flores part if this really is how it went down.

    Fact of the matter is these two are hired to work together to build a team that serves each others needs; they failed. TOGETHER. They should be fired together. At least we agree on that! :lol:
     
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  3. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but do you think he had Tua's back and that Tua felt that way? Because I don't know and I would have said that yesterday before any of this reporting. When it came to Watson it was always a question of who is it coming from and who is the driving force? Frankly I would have trouble believing Flores was alone driving that train but being involved at all is a disaster if the team knows it and Tua knows it. Those press conferences always came off as luke warm endorsements at best

    And when you throw in the decision to start Brissett vs Baltimore and you really wonder what was going on
     
  4. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    In light of it all we don't really know if Flores "suggested " this move sometime during the season to take place at seasons end. I personally noticed a difference in Flores sideline demeanor between last year and this year. He used to be very intense and vocal all through the game last year but this year he was very subdued and low keyed. Did he want out ? Did he know he was a goner at seasons end ?
    Was there a major power struggle between Flores and the front office? Was there major disagreements regarding players ?
    These are all questions we have no definitive answers to. In my opinion- and this might not be a popular one- is that Flores and Ross both agreed that once the season was over Flores was gone. If the Dolphins made the playoffs then maybe it would have been a whole other story.
     
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  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    The Dolphins have hired 5 different head coaches since 2007, have been to the playoffs only twice and both times eliminated in the Wildcard round.

    What does this mediocre stretch all have in common? Chris Grier!

    The wrong man was fired today. I want everyone to think about this for just a moment. Chris Grier has been in an executive position with the Dolphins since 2007, obtaining more increased level of responsibility culminating with his promotion to GM in 2016. In 15 years of executive leadership positions with the team, if you can't put together a team that has more than three 10 win seasons and only 2 playoff appearances, then YOU are the problem.

    Flores is going to go to a team that truly KNOWS what they will get and he's going to build a dominating team...provided he doesn't go to Chicago or any other dysfunctional organization. At this particular time, I can see Flores taking the Denver job and destroying the AFC West while we try to find someone that's willing to come to this cluster f#ck of an organization.

    Well, here we go yet again!

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    I was not surprised by the Flores firing at all. I am surprised Grier will remain. Maybe now we can get a coaching staff in place and one that will remain in place for half a decade.
     
  7. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In his own mind I don't think he had Tua's back; but for the sake of his job and his team and the player he sure played it off that way or at least tried to. Initially I always assumed it was Ross/Grier that wanted Watson most; but once it started coming out re: herbert/flores during our losing streak it started to become a bit clearer. In hindsight though with Flores continually going back to Fitz last year it helps clarify it a bit more that he wasn't really interested in the fact Tua gave us the best chance to win. I know this is alot of speculation right now but it sure seems to me like once people started calling for Flores job during that losing streak it quickly came out about the QB position being an issue. It's either Grier floating that out there to throw Flores under the bus and save the player; or its true that Flores wanted Herbert and he's trying to find a way to make it work with a guy he didn't want in the first place.

    Either way; these two were hired to work together. Grier was a part of the selection process of Flores. How you terminate one and not the other is just non-sensical. Especially when the one you kept has been with your organization through its 20 years of mediocrity and if it is true Flores wanted Herbert over Tua it currently looks like Flores was right based on what both players have shown thus far for their respective teams.

    I'm just beyond frustrated that we're in this position AGAIN where we've decided to take another half measure approach to fixing things but I won't blame Flores one bit if he became hard to work with over the drafting of a QB decision because that's a clear indication of a team that is supposed to be working together but one guy isn't listening to the other and the coach IMO should have more input in that decision. I just can't understand how Grier is unaffected by this and now has the freedom to be a part of hiring another coach he can eventually create a power struggle with.
     
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  8. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    hate seeing this do you think Flores is harder to work with than Beliceck? He trained under him saw how he acted and controlled the team I thought that’s what we wanted in Miami?
     
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  9. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    The Dolphins do a great job making me wish i could quit football. They have a parasitic relationship with their fans.
     
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  10. JIGGAJOE

    JIGGAJOE Active Member

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    Belicheck won championships. That gives him a lot of leash. How many of his subordinates have left and tried that tough love and succeeded? Most end up fired and running back to daddy. Honestly, overall I liked Flores, but the Minkah thing early on always left a bad taste in my mouth. I think he was just too unwilling to listen to players requests, which ended up costing us those veteran players which we needed early this year.
     
  11. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I’m waiting for the people to say we ***** to much and should have optimism these kinds of moves are why us long time fans have had it with the current situation and ownership. The only thing that hasn’t changed since we started sucking is the owner
     
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  12. MrPhinn

    MrPhinn Active Member

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    No way did anyone see this coming. I'm in shock.
     
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  13. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you, you cannot get rid of coaches because players don't like them unless of course they just have no respect for them.
     
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  14. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I was never crazy about this hire. When Flo fired Chad O'Shea and hired Chan Gailey, I feel that seated his fate. And losing his DC after year one as well. Way too much turnover in the staff and on the roster for continual development and growth. It wasn't sustainable.

    That said I feel he needed one more season to try to build on what was here, especially as the D outperformed most of the time. I dont trust Ross and Grier to get this right, as usual.

    More Dolphins spinning wheels as they have for 20 something years now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  15. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    We had the rank 32nd defense after week 8. That sealed his fate imo. We can talk about the offense being trash all we want but his bread and butter was a huge reason of the 1-7 start.
     
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  16. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking this was his way of working to get along with people better. I felt like he was growing as a coach and as a person.
     
  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, we know the defense will now go backwards because this was Flores defense. Team just got way worse.
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but what were we weeks 9-18? Top 5? Top1? You can't look at those stats in a bubble- either look at the whole or give both parts of the equation.
     
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  19. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    How much of that was because jacoby loved the three and out? Defense got gassed. Just no rest.
     
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  20. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Overall I am onboard with this move.

    Back to back winning seasons within the first 3 years is a strong indicator that you have a strong HC, one with HoF potential. However, with the move to a 17 game season that cheapens the value of a winning season. Depending on the year roughly 10 to 20% of teams ended up at 8-8, whereas now it is nearly impossible to end up with a .500 records (8-8-1 is really tough to achieve). Which means instead of roughly 40% of teams having winning records closer to 50% will have winning records. So having a 9-8 winning season to get the back to back within 3 years isn’t fully satisfying.

    Some other reasons why I can be onboard with the move.
    1) The dumpster fire at OL, which has gotten worse during his tenure.
    2) The OC rotating door.
    3) Duke Johnson, a street FA after being cut by the Jags and Texans being our best RB of the year, and we wouldn't have signed him but for Covid. That strikes me as an abject failure of player evaluation by the coaching staff.
    4) The fact that the D was hot garbage until Flo took over playcalling duties.

    When the side of the ball your HC is best at only plays to potential when the HC is calling the olays and the other side of the ball falls to hell, to me that’s a sign you have an over-promoted co-ordinator running things not a true HC.

    The inability to play well with others is a universal critique of coaches hired away from Belichek, and it seems Flores is cut from the same cloth.

    This isn’t an endorsement of Grier, not by any stretch of the imagination. I was going to make a longer post starting a thread about why I was having second thoughts about Flores as HC, but Ross beat me to the punch.
     
  21. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    Why did they wait until after the trade deadline to change how they were game planning and coaching. It is all very mysterious to me tbh.
     
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  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Patriots guys ALL have this rep. It's not undeserved or coming from nowhere.
     
  23. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I posted in the beginning of the season that Flores might be sabotaging Tua sort of jokingly. Turns out it may be true.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that it all came down to inner-office politics.
     
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  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The owner just fired a coach after 3 years coming off two winning seasons. The coach before him was fired after 3. Philbin lasted what, 2.5? or was it 3.5? Whatever it is our owner isn't patient enough to have a staff in place for a decade. You need the perfect storm of a young QB drafted, paired with your HC and a GM working together. We'll not have that now; Tua is in year 2 and questionable as to his future. Grier is still here and hasn't really been able to work with any coach without a resulting power struggle type scenario. The owner is too impatient.

    Lets not forget Flores just put up two back to back winning seasons for the first time for this team in 10 years or something like that. That's after a 5-11 season where he had a roster that had no business winning 1 game let alone 5! He certainly had his flaws with his staffs and time/clock management but what do you expect from a first time head coach? This just not giving a first time head coach in a complete rebuild enough time especially when the GM you're keeping was the guy responsible for hiring him in the first place! If you're going to fire one; fire both so you at least keep your options open to get the best of both worlds.
     
  26. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How is bringing in his old QB coach; and building an offense in season to better suit his skill set sabotaging him? Come on.

    He was continuously pulled last year in favor of Fitz for poor play when Fitz immediately performed better in those situations. This year they centered everything around him. Bringing in Frye; drafting his old teammate at WR; changing the offense to suit his strengths. The constant OC change isn't helpful for his development; no doubt. But sabotaging him? No; I don't see that at all. If that was the case we wouldn't have won 7 in a row and got ourselves into contention. The fact of the matter is this group played hard against some bad teams and found a way to overcome their own bad play on offense from the QB at times, and from the surrounding cast more often than not. While the reports floated earlier in the year said Flores preferred Herbert; no coach is going to purposely sacrifice their own livelihood over that. If you think Flores maybe internally pushing the team to get Watson is sabotage again I think the answer there is no. That's a coach identifying what he perceives is a weakness on his roster and an opportunity to make the team better and into a winner. Apparently that vision wasn't shared. Those conversations happen daily I'd be at every position on the roster.

    During the season they continued to change offense to suit his strengths; its similar to what he ran at alabama form the RPO's to route combinations/progressions. The guys in yesterdays broadcasts even spoke of that. Flores made the effort to try at least IMO. It's just damn near impossible to hire a good OC when you're changing your OC for the 4th time now in your short HC career then you cap that off and for the owner to expect playoffs in year 3 when we tore this roster down to a group of nobody's in year 1 is just... crazy.

    The thought they were sabotaging him is nonsense IMO. I don't think this situation created that, but I think it created a situation where the relationship between the HC and GM was ruined; and then in turn the relationship between the HC and the organization for siding with the GM over the coach when it's the coaches job to take the players out onto the field and win with them; rather than in spite of them. Grier has managed to save himself again though for his own shortcomings and that's what I'm angry with today. IF you want to fire Flores for not getting the job done in 3 years, why aren't we firing the guy who hired him and bought him the groceries?

    Think about this as it relates to the OL that Tua so desperately needed. If our coaching staff had the right guys to fit in the system would our OL really need the shuffling of players in and out at different positions all year long for them to try and find a combination that works? Unlikely. That's likely caused by poor talent on the roster and they're just trying to find ways to make it work with the garbage they have on that unit. That's not sabotage; that's trying to make due with the resources you have much like how last year Flores flip flopped between Fitz and Tua based on who gave us the chance to win. Again, not sabotage but instead its giving yourself the chance to play better and win. It's a staple of success where Flores came from; one that Chris Grier apparently isn't familar with.
     
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  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Some video clips of Ross speaking in here:
     
  28. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Then there's this:





    Could be nothing but you could tie into this idea of absenteeism with Ross simply depending on what others tell him to make decisions.
    Which would connect with this:



    If Ross just leans entirely on what others tell him that is very easily a recipe for disaster.
     
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  30. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Been following the Dolphins since 1966! This owner is by far the least effective person in any team position of control I have ever seen. But, unfortunately he cannot fire himself unless he chooses to find an actual "FOOTBALL" person to run the team. If not, I fear that the fans are doomed to continued mediocrity at best! Methinks he is acting like a child with a toy for which he has yearned for some time, and he will play with it until he gets bored out of his gourd, and then either find someone else to manage the acquisition, or sell it.
     
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  31. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry folks, Flores wont be unemployed long and he deserves better than Grier and Ross.
    Good luck coach
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Ross has purgatory for Dolphins fans already planned for the post-Ross period. NFL owners already approved a succession plan post-Ross for Bruce Beal Jr. to have first option to buy the Dolphins if Ross plans to sell. Guess who Bruce Beal Jr. is? President of Related Companies! So Ross has made sure the Dolphins are "kept within the family" so to say.

    We're all aging faster than the Dolphins can get better.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What is this going to mean for all of the tight ends and defensive backs?

    That is the serious question.
     
  34. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    They cant even franchise tag gesecki anymore. He played more snaps at wr than te. His tag went from 11 mil to 18 mil.
     
  35. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    So I’m going to post this with a grain of salt but it’s from a trusted person who knows Ross personally and told me today when I said I think they made the wrong firing today he responded with the following

    “Heard Flores pushed too hard for TUA.. everyone else wanted Herbert”

    This to me sounds like they decided early on to move from TUA and that’s where the Watson discussions came from. They may have wanted to replace TUA mid season and Flores fought back for whatever reason. And the decision to replace Flores if TUA didn’t get into the playoffs Was born.
     
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  36. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I'm speechless. You just don't do this to a guy that has had back to back winning seasons with a young roster devoid of talent. How are we ever supposed to build anything if we don't remain patient with the process? This sucks man, I was a big time fan of Flores and what he had done for us. Harbaugh is the obvious choice here.
     
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  37. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    This makes sense. I remember Ross being reportedly over the moon for Herbert after his junior season. Herbert returned for his senior year and then draft comes and we take Tua. If that was a Flores call, then yeah, it'll cost him his job. Ross was probably watching Herbert convert 4th and 10 after 4th and 10 on that last drive and said "screw it, I've seen enough." I'm in no way a Herbert fan boy or a Tua fan boy. I'll support this team no matter what, but watching Herbert play as amazing as he did last night left a pit in my stomach. Yeah....We drafted the wrong guy, but any fan worth his salt is going to hope like hell that it still works out.
     
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  38. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’m curious what Flores could have done to make Jones, Davis and Howard healthy. Additionally, Griers off-season plan relied on 2 rookies to start on that defense. One playing a brand new position.
     
  39. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I said since the beginning of this year.. the decision of Tua over Herbert will get people fired.

    i am not sure how Grier still has a job.

    a lot of this “young talent” ross is boasting to have… theyre not as talented as we think. Flores did a lot to hide some glaring holes the defense has..

    Flores is going to get hired as an assistant head coach/defensive coordinator. He obviously can coach defense.. if bowles leaves to jacksonville with leftwich, wouldnt shock me if Flores gets the Buccaneers job.
     
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  40. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Not buying this. All indications and reports until now have been that Flores preferred Herbert, and Grier/Ross wanted Tua.
     

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