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John Beck.. I think your in trouble...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Dec 30, 2007.

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  1. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Youre the one who argued it, I merely brought it up and guess what I'm pretty sure somewhere down the road I'll bring it up again
     
  2. JerryC

    JerryC New Member

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    Beck appears wisp thin, but then on the tv a lot of the players don't look that tall or large, just like in NBA on the tv, players really don't look that tall unless they are next to someone 6' or so, or unless you see them in person, then your realize how tall or large they really are. Point is that on the tv, it is really hard to tell. So we need to go by the published stats pretty much or see them in person.

    But from the published ht and wt you guys posted, then Beck is definitely about the par if not a little taller. But as I posted earlier about pat haden....what matters is his talent, skills, and his mind. And I think beck will definitely come around and be great. He has the desire and is definitely smart enough, and has the raw skills and talent. I see Parcells getting him in a program and beefing him up a little and putting more muscle on him.
    Heck to me on the tube Eli and Peyton look too skinny to take the punishment, but I know they aren't as skinny as they appear. Looks on the tv are decieving.

    As for the fumble today, yeah, I hated it too, but then when they said that he had not taken any reps this week and prob not the week before, it was understandable and forgivable. It was just rustiness and lack of reps, and that was proven when he got a couple more under his belt and got into a rythm and did some nice work. I see him as a diamond in the rough. Marino wasn't spectacular in his first couple games in 1983, nor was Payton.
    I think Bill keeps him, gets him into a conditioning program, and gets someone who knows what they are doing to develop his skills, talent and knowledge, and gives him a line to work behind.

    He has an arm(something no one has had since Marino, really), good mobility, accuracy, and so on, and with proper development, he will be great. I definitely don't want to let him go so belichick can pick him up and end up using him against us like he did with welker, evans, izzo and co..

    And Like Jonanthans above said, ZT was considered too short to play LB, but guess what? multiple pro bowls, prob HOF'er, etc, showing that size may play a part but is not the predominant factor in how good a player will be. No matter the size any player with the proper tools and the PROPER tutelage can be developed into something outstanding, which is what I hope for Beck.
     
  3. JerryC

    JerryC New Member

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    I think Beck, Peele, and Ginn are works in progress and will all three be great one day.
     
  4. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That list wasn't me cherry picking who I think will be a starter, it was the players that started this week. You have 2 probowlers that are 6'2 this year. 5 players on that list are former probowlers. 2 are former multiple time NFL MVPs. The idea that Quinn at 6'3" is ok, but Beck at 6'2" is not, is silly. This debate is silly. Beck has enough questions to be answered with out worrying about sillyness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  5. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Its not - because protype size isnt based on wish lists its based on offensive and defensive linemen's size. You want a QB to be at eye level with his linemen, more so with his guards and centers as opposed to tackles. The reason for that is its better to be able to look over your linemen so that you can scan the field rather than rely on deep drops or looking through lanes. It just gives you an advantage. Doesnt mean you are guaranteed success if youre 6'5" or guaranteed failure if you're 6'0" but it does mean one is an advantage and one is a disadvantage that must be compenssated for. Do you want a 6'2" QB dropping three steps or would you prefer 5 or 7?

    The priotype size for a center is 6'3" and for a guard its 6'4" and that is why the prototype size for a QB is 6'4"
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  6. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There are plenty of Qbs that are 6’ 2†in today’s NFL that have had and are having a great career. Tony Romo was Bill Ps last QB, he is 6’ 2†and a Pro-bowler. You have a point about size being something that has to be overcome, 6’ 2†is close enough to your prototypical size that it really isn’t an issue. There are many players playing now that are 6’2â€. To many of them don’t have elite arms or anything to compensate if that size was an issue. Rember the line isn't just standing strait up blocking, not if they want to stop anybody.
     
  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Size is a silly argument. Have to agree with the Twin Tacos over there.

    Take Smith for instance. I actually looked it up back before last years draft, ALL his OL at OSU were at least 6'3" yet he still put up some good numbers there.

    Size is bascially something thats nice to have, but not something that should hold you back from taking a talent. It is by no means at ALL an indicator of success or talent without playing a down. If all else is equal size will come out ahead, but if all else is not equal, size matters little.
     
  8. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    That sentence is all that needs to be said to put this to rest
     
  9. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Right now no one knows anything about Beck's future with the team. He was a rookie on a god awful team, one of the worst teams in recent history. Judging him by a handful of starts on this team without Ronnie and a WR group of castoffs is absurd. If we find someone in the draft that we love great draft them, but anyone thinking they have fully evaluted this guy after this season is just off base.
     
  10. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    And Samson Satele!!! :D
     
  11. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Your joking right. The Point of this thread was John ONCE again showed hes got fumble hands. Hes going to be over 30 when hes ready to be "THE MAN" John has so far shown he is not in control of the offensive scheme. YES hes a rookie, but the Point is I do not think he is a Bill Parcells QB, and with his fumbles I do not think he did himself any favors.

    You get all wet below because he ran for a touchdown and threw for one in garbage time against a horrible team as well...Im not excited yes he will grow but I do not think he will be the MAn in Miami.

    I could be wrong and I hope this carousal is painful.

    I feel cameron should be fired today, he has not put his team in a position to win ONE game this year. The one game we won was 3 point in overtime and by luck..
    (had to throw that in)
     
  12. mmikel30

    mmikel30 New Member

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    his touchdown was a 1 yard qb sneak in a meaningless game the other came when the game was over in a meaningless game ....like a preseason game.
     
  13. mmikel30

    mmikel30 New Member

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    rather have a 6-4 marino or any qb who was on drew's level but taller
     
  14. TampaFinsFan01

    TampaFinsFan01 New Member

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    Not being able to handle a snap isn't a rookie mistake. High School QBs take millions of snaps every year. I expect him to be able to execute a smooth exchange from the center. And that gives him trouble, which leads me to believe he is a career backup.
     
  15. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Active Member

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    dont you also expect high school qbs to know the difference between the center and guard, and line up behind the right one?

    john elway should've been a career backup because he lined up behind the center once as a rookie.
     
  16. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Just because of a mishandled snap I've seen happen to many QB's, including Romo, Green, and Favre?
     
  17. TampaFinsFan01

    TampaFinsFan01 New Member

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    That is different. Thats a mental mistake. He was overwhelmed. I expect all young QBs to be overwhelmed. When they do get behind C, I expect them to make the exchange. And it didn't happen just once to Beck. He has trouble holding on to the ball. He might be better in the future, but right now, he sucks. Bottom line...right now, he is horrible.

    And please don't give me this "hes a rookie" crap. Troy Smith isn't horrible. Trent Edwards isn't horrible. But our boy Beck is. Lets just hope he improves. But more likely, we can rest knowing that we have solved our QB, albiet Backup QB, position for many years.
     
  18. JerryC

    JerryC New Member

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    As Silver and Super alluded to, there are many pro bowl qbs, that by your reasoning should be career backups, as they have all dropped or mishandled a snap her and there, even Marino did it a few times, so by that reasoning, he should have been a career backup.
     
  19. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Not to disagree to agree, but there are plenty of prototypical players that wash out in any given year and plenty of guys who aren't prototypical who step up and make huge differences in their team. While there is a certain blend of size and weight that a coach would like to have at the QB position (think Big Ben) the ability to play the position and the ability to care for the ball is what's most important to being a QB. Time will tell if Beck has either, but there's nothing wrong with his physical attributes that would lead anyone to believe that he's going to be cut or passed up for Matt Ryan/Brohm based solely on how tall anyone stands or how much they weigh. QBs being accurate in delivering the football, winning games, and not turning the ball over is what everyone looks for, no matter the package.

    BTW, I'm back from Florida and the holidays, I hope everyone had a good one and has a great New Year's :D
     
  20. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Active Member

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    suggesting he is "horrible" is a major stretch. he played poorly vs the jets and in less than 1 qtr vs buffalo. otherwise, played well vs philly, didnt embarrass himself in poor conditions at pitt, and looked good yesterday after the fumble.
     
  21. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    First of all, he didn't practice with the first team this week. Second, I read that he was checking his WR's last minute when the ball was snapped. And yeah, he's a rookie and he was nervous, big deal. You're judging a kid based on a handfull of games in which he had to deal with coming in off the bench, playing in poor conditions in Pitt and not having a great (or even good) supporting cast around him.

    As long as I see him doing the little things (going through his progressions, not throwing INT's, finding the open man, not taking a sack) then I'm as happy as a pig in ****.
     
  22. Captain lou

    Captain lou New Member

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    Have you seen Trent Edwards stats the last 2 weeks. Our entire team is HORRIBLE. Do you HONESTLY think any of those guys YOU like would have had success with our team. Please refrain from posting until you get a clue!
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  23. JerryC

    JerryC New Member

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    agreed, and looked good after the fumble, just like MANY other past and present great qbs have done...no qb is immune to botching a snap or from fumbling, even the great tom brady has done both. so I guess he and they are all horrible by Tampa's way of thinking, and these are seasoned qbs.
     
  24. JerryC

    JerryC New Member

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    Ditto
     
  25. phinfan3411

    phinfan3411 New Member

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    Honestly, some of you people make me crazy, I really don't believe you guys can honestly believe you have seen enough to KNOW Beck is not going to be any good do you?
    I know few things for sure, but one of them is that you do not know for SURE, he is no good after the limited opportunities he has had with a very BAD team, you may think you know, but you don't.
    It would have been fun to go back in time and listen to all of the EINSTEIN'S in Tampa Bay after Steve Young's second terrible season there swearing if they had a better QB they would be winners. Well thank goodness for 49er fans that Bill Walsh is just a little smarter than most fans, and realized even though Young was a short 6'2", and turned the ball over, and had a terrible qb rating that he would give him the "NFL QUARTERBACKING FOR DUMMIES" book, and overnight he would turn into a Pro Bowler. You don't really think it had much to do with his surrounding cast do you? No, you guys are much too smart for that.
    One last thing, if some of you are still complaining about the fumbles, I believe they come from being nervous, and they will go away with EXPERIENCE which is hard to get when you are only the starter for four games.
     
  26. Pjack

    Pjack New Member

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    I don't put much stock in the botched snap by itself. However, add it to everything else we have seen, and it at minimum is very concerning. Yes, this team was HISTORICALLY bad which obviously affected his ability to lead. Nevertheless, Beck showed very little, if any, improvement in the time he was in there. As far as looking good after the fumble, please....we were down 21 to one of the worst teams in the league in a prevent situation.

    Biggest area of concern for me is that he always seemed to show a lack of confidence and mental readiness on the field every time I have seen him. If he were 21, I would be less concerned, but I thought the argument for drafting a guy whom will be 27 next year, is we had a guy that was mentally advanced. Just does not appear to be the case especially when we are comparing him (often negatively) to the 21 year olds in Edwards, Smith, etc. While I totally agree he should be given an opportunity to compete for a starting spot next year, he has by no means given me the confidence that we should pin our future on him. We should absolutely be drafting a first day QB next April. Where remains to be seen, as there is a lot of research by Parcells and likely Ireland to be done before our most important draft in our history. If we blow it we will be awful for years to come.
     
  27. Bonedoc7777

    Bonedoc7777 New Member

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    we really need beck to be a NFL QB, if not we will be set back another year or two
     
  28. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    This is true - if we can't get a decent caretaker in the meantime. I don't think a game manager is a bad choice for this team in the meantime to hedge our bets in the event that Beck doesn't work out, but I'm still optimistic that with a good offseason program and training camp Beck will certainly be the guy.
     
  29. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    No offense, but this team isn't going to be a playoff contender next year or even the year after that. Talentwise this team has pretty far to go, I don't see John Beck as the make or break for us.
     
  30. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    If Beck is a backup to someone we bring in........then that would make him a backup.Not the backups backup, like he was this year.:ffic: woot.So your point is you have no point.
     
  31. REV KEV

    REV KEV New Member

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    He wasn't joking...:sad:
     
  32. REV KEV

    REV KEV New Member

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    Oh my..., did you miss something..., he is a turnover machine... Bill was watching..., CAMRAM made this pick..., Beck knew he was being evaluated..., Beck was like a deer inthe head-lights on his first play...
     
  33. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    And then made up for it with a fine game. ;)

    i disagree that he is a turnover machine, we have only seen him play a few games, games without Ronnie, quality WR's and a TE.
     
  34. azstryker

    azstryker New Member

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    In which Parcellls had already left. He'll review the tape and my guess we'll know his feelings about Beck by how aggressively he goes after a QB in the FA market.
     
  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    So Bengals fans should feel the same. I was on a few Bengals sites last nite to see their take and the guy that stood out to them on one site was Lorenzo Booker. He's the only one that got props. They felt that Cincy just went into a soft prevent. Not having seen the game myself I cant judge his last game. Hopefully someone puts it on YOUTUBE. Not saying he didnt have a good game but you would hope that someone other than Dolphins fans were saying the same
     
  36. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  37. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    The fact that he left doesn't really mean much, like you said he will review the tape.

    Not really because we do need a vet QB regardless. There really won't be any Qb that you would look at if he was signed and say "Yup, Parcells has given up on Beck".
     
  38. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    half of those were blindsides with no warning
     
  39. azstryker

    azstryker New Member

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    I have the game on TiVo. The DB (Deltha Oneal) for Cinci just let Hagan go right past him. It almost looked like he wanted him to score. Maybe for TJ's sake to get another catch?? Either that or the safty really blew his assignment, I don't really know. It was still a pretty nice throw on the run though.
     
  40. REV KEV

    REV KEV New Member

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    Maybe "Machine" was cruel but Bill won't be any kinder...

    I will never be convinced of a guys "inner-stength" when he is playing a porous "D" in a meaningless game... The game was meaningful for Beck..., and well..., let's put it this way I see him digressing since the Pittsburgh game...

    Look at it from a body of work rather than just game time..., he has been hesitant about starting from the get go... Maybe this is CamRam's mistake...

    Personally... I am looking for a confident field general...

    BP may start us again from square one... Our Oline has promise
     

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