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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Again, I was kidding. I know no one said he's comparable to Marino. That would be true derangement.... Although, there could be one special person on here (he knows who he is) that secretly thinks that as he pleasures himself to his tua poster. And you're right. If we all thought the same, what a boring place this forum would be
     
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  2. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Someone posted that play in this thread earlier. That was indeed a nice pass. Are there others like that?
     
  3. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Again, it's one thing to say that Tua's not the answer. But something else to suggest that he's the problem. I can understand someone with the first opinion but question anybody who embraces the latter.
     
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  5. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure I've never said he was the problem but I'm sure some Internet sleuth will dig up something I said on here in the past. He really hasnt lost us any games but I don't think he's put the team on his back and carried them to victory either. When you draft a QB #5, you would expect him to be able to do that. I don't think he has that ability
     
  6. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I guess you didn't watch the Ravens game. Plus, he had two games with 80% completion and a third in the streak with 70%, which I would consider him putting the team on his back. In fact, he's made plays in all five games that were crucial to the wins.

    So IMO, that's an odd thing to list as a concern, especially in the midst of a 5-game win streak. If he hasn't put the team on his back, it's actually a good thing because it means we're playing from ahead in victories and not coming back late.

    Seriously, of all the things we've discussed, that's probably the most random thing you've posted yet.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I guess what I'm saying is that they are winning because the team is playing well. Especially the defense. In my opinion, they havent won a game just because of him. Hence why I've said he is a game manager. The majority of the time that Marino played, we had crap defenses and zero running game. I cant even count the number of times we won solely because of Marino. Tua has not shown me he has that ability
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    He's done that at least once: last year vs. Arizona. It's the one game he really carried the team. So we know he can do it. But he needs to do it more often. However, there's no reason to think he can't develop into a QB that does that more often. Shouldn't just assume his ceiling is a game manager. Tua is a QB that still needs development and is demonstrating development, so be patient about him "carrying the team".
     
  9. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    That's great that he "Can." Maybe when he gets the perfect grip that's hard for him to find I do not know. All I know for sure is he seems unable to consistently do it, and to me that's about the same as not at all(as far as future QB 2-3 yrs is concerned) unless he can somehow find that touch on every long and even semi-long pass.

    Or as canez put it :Show me more.

    It's like some of yall think we're rooting for Tua to fail. Lol. I want nothing more than his success he's a tough kid with a good heart, but yeah, very few men are meant to be great Pro QBs. Tua's ceiling (for the time being) is average. He may be good enough to go to a superbowl if we were able to build a super team. But Chris Grier may never do that. Our best chance is to find the next top 1-2-3 QB, and we may have just missed our chance (again) 'Herbert'
     
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  10. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I saw another analysis of Tagovailoa a while back that focused on something similar reading defenses…seeing the back of a defender or his front. The focus was illustrating how Tua seeing the defender’s back told him he could throw the ball “here or there” in anticipation of the receivers break, getting the ball to him before the defender even sees the ball in the air.

    Tua’s had his struggles as a true first year starter, especially behind an offensive line that puts so much pressure on a young first year quarterback but he’s been really reliable in protecting the ball and not making the typical mistakes first year quarterbacks often make in forcing a pass that isn’t there. Has he made some bad throws? Of course he has…what quarterback at the mediocre to elite level hasn’t? But he is being smart with the ball, taking what defenses will give him and giving receivers the opportunity to get yards after the catch.

    If only we can get that stinking OL fixed to give him the time any quarterback truly deserves, he’s growing into a very dangerous quarterback.
     
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  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    He ran over a midget DB, he gets points for being aggressive and picking on a small dude, but really not that impressive.
     
  12. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    If Covid protocols have shown us anything and it should be perfectly obvious to any layman, the need to build a complete TEAM rather than putting all of the focus on quarterback is more important than anything.

    Look at the number of incomplete teams with focus on the quarterback versus complete teams whose focus is on every position who’s been affected by losing their starting quarterback due to Covid protocols.

    Teams that have been able to control the line of scrimmage, effectively run the ball, protect the quarterback, defend against the opponents run and pass have not been adversely affected by the loss of their starting quarterback as much as those who have tossed all their eggs in one basket and rely strictly on their star quarterback.

    Let’s hop in the way back machine for a moment. The 1971 Miami Dolphins; they steam roll through the ‘71 season, establishing themselves as the dominant team in the AFC, propelling Shula to his 2nd Super Bowl…the first coach to appear in 2 Super Bowls with 2 different teams. They lost that game to the Cowboys ending their Cinderella run…or did it? Come 1972, the season of all seasons, the Dolphins yet again begin their steam roll and then tragedy strikes. Griese gets carted off the field with a broken leg during week 6. The run is over…or is it? In comes Earl Morrell, Shula’s longtime back up to Johnny Unitis in Baltimore and the steam rolling continues, culminating in the perfect season. The bottom line point? The TEAM was a complete team and didn’t rely solely on the starting quarterback.

    “Oh fresh, TDK, you’re so old…football is different now than it was then…the game has changed. You don’t know what you’re talking g about”.

    Ok, how about some recent history then? How about the 2017 Philadelphia Eagles? After steam rolling the NFC with an 11-2 record, the Eagles lose Carson Wentz with a torn ACL during the week 14 match up against the Rams. Season over. Beat they can hope for now is 11-5 and limp into the playoffs. Think again. In comes Nick Foles and the rest of the Eagles season is history, toppling the Patriots to win the Super Bowl.

    Carson Wentz? Garbage. Nick Foles? Garbage. What have they done since? Exactly but with that complete TEAM, they achieved greatness.

    I don’t put all my focus on the quarterback. Quite stupid to do so. I put my focus on the entire team which includes the quarterback. Is Tua going to be an NFL stat record breaking Hall of Famer that’s going to go down in infamy as one of the game’s greatest quarterbacks ever? Probably not but he doesn’t need to be, does he?

    I can recall a lesser Manning brother being the owner of 2 Super Bowl championships before his greater record breaking big brother ever won his first.

    If you’re looking for Tua to be Peyton…or wanting to put all your eggs in one basket with a Peyton with year after year of oh so close but not quite there, you’re foolish. I’d rather have an Eli with a complete team and a better chance of winning the Super Bowl year after year.

    To sum it all up, Tua may not be your lightening in a bottle high flying throwing quarterback that’s going to make the cover of Madden, but he sure as hell is a damned good quarterback and is NOT the yolk around this team’s neck keeping us from achieving greatness either.
     
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  13. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was especially since he's a fragile weakling who can't even throw a ball ten yards.
     
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  14. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    C'mon man, don't be so hard on yourself
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
  15. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    A complete team will have the best odds of success, yeah, but combined with a better QB means a large margin of error when it comes to winning.

    Yeah, memory is a funny thing. As I recall; Peyton won his first SB with the Colts during the 2006 season, while Eli inflicted 18-1 on the Pats during the 2007 season, then went on to beat them again during the 2011 season. Oh, and Peyton lost to the Saints during the 2009 season, but a great Denver defense carried his corpse to a SB win in 2015.

    I'm not sold on Tua due to injury concerns, but he has shown clear progress from the 2020 season. I think Ross will force a trade for Watson, but offset some of the cost by trading Tua away. I think he'd thrive with the Saints for example, but Watson and a fixed OL would open the Super Bowl window (on paper). For the record, I'd take my chances with Tua rather than risk Watson at this point, but it's not my call.
     
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  16. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Come on man, lighten up. I get that you don’t like him or anything he does. I wasn’t a fan of the pick and wanted Herbert. I can still appreciate the good things he does since he’s our QB.
     
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  17. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Same game.



    And some of his deep passes from year 1.



    The idea that Tua has this incredibly weak arm is just dumb. He is low average to average for the NFL. He's not Farve, but he's also not Pennington. He was first criticized for only throwing deep and running a 4 verts offense at Bama.

    Tua is at his floor now. How much better he gets is going to be determined by how much better he gets at the mental part.
     
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  18. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    That’s how I see it too, he’s no Jay Fiedler when it comes to arm strength, it’s enough and maybe he gets a little more zip when his body develops and fully heals. Health is the only real knock on him and if he stays healthy, I believe he‘ll be the best QB we had here since Dan the man. Nevertheless I think our owner wants Watson and I don’t think Tua will be here next season, but I really hope I’m wrong.
     
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  19. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Not bad for someone who was too soft to be in this league.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Remember when we all raved about Ronnie Brownrunning over some Raider's DB? No one cared that he didn't run over Ray Lewis.
     
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  21. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  22. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Uh thanks for the history lesson on my favorite NFL team? lol. During my generation, they've been the damned cleveland browns. Or Miami Lolphins. I started getting serious about being a fan towards the end of Dan's career, which actually sucks and may have made me a little more pessimistic.

    I know all about Fins history. I've watched our Superbowls my dad has them on DVDs. I'm not sure why you drifted so far into the history lesson you were giving me you forgot about the topic at hand.

    Anyway... Raise your hand if you'd trade Tua for Wentz straight up *raises hand slowly*

    For the record I try to be more of a realist than a pessimist, sometimes i may slip but I'm rooting for the team so to me there's no sense in being a total pessimist. I mean I still harp on Tua over Herbert sometimes lol, but that's possibly a definining decision for who knows how many years, just like Culpepper over Brees yo. Aaron Rodgers went right passed us and a lot of other teams in the 1st round.. Tbe only thing that sucks about this miracle run we're on is that it may save some people's job's like Chris Grier who I'd prefer not be in the draft room in 2022.
     
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  23. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    "Tua is not the problem =/= Tua is the problem."

    I've been trying to more accurately title this thread.

    It's not that he's terrible, it's that he's not good enough and the areas he's lacking are mostly genetic hard to fix. It doesn't help that he smash his damn hip.. which is critical in putting that velocity on the ball in long balls to swing that hip.

    I don't hate Tua just cause I wish we had picked Herbert. It's not his fault and he's a good kid who makes plenty of positive plays. Too many mistakes, especially recently on the run. We've been carried and mostly not by Tua in some of these.

    Last week we were carried by Duke Johnson brought up out of no where, nice job on the evaluation there coaching staff, they figured out in week 15 that Gaskin and Ahmed were not starting caliber backs even behind this generally bad OL, Duke made them look good.

    Now before anyone gets excited, the Jets have a notoriously bad run D. And our **** coaching staff took forever to bring Duke up, he would have been servicable even if he wasnt running for over 100 a game +TD. Cant get worse than what we were doing at RB before DUKKKKKKKKKE, and I call that a coaching staff blunder. Unless DUUUUKE proves to be a one shot wonder, which would suck, but im prepared for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    his release is every bit as fast as Marino’s :)
     
  25. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    You stop that right now
     
  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    No one’s release is or ever was as fast as Marino’s. I don’t care what anyone says, tries to demonstrate, etc. That ball would go from Marino’s side, being held like a lunchbox to ***GONE*** in the blink of an eye.
     
  27. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Nope, and without hesitation I would take Tua.

    Wentz is more expensive, has as much injury riskand plays behind an excellent line with a top tier RB to bail him out. IMO he's also not all that trustworthy. He will flash but also make wtf plays. He's playing in an ideal situation for him and good for him on resurrecting his career, but no way I make that trade.
     
  28. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Wentz has the ceiling potential that I'm looking for. Tua's ceiling for me is settled at average until he proves otherwise. We can all blame the OL til we're blue in the face, but I've seen him with time, a wide open lane of vision on too many ocassions where he throws a ball meant to hit receiver in stride land 5-10 yards short; In which case, receiver has to adjust and make circus catch, which we've already pretty much seen from all our top skill players. Or, worst case, he's inaccurate and off target, receiver has no chance, but the DBs we face certainly do and prove it fairly consistently.

    Currently as you say Wentz is not Head-n-shoulders above Tua, but he has potential to go further, much like with Herbert, the higher ceiling is apparent to anyone without Aqua shades bruh. Jmo. I truly hope Tua proves all my doubts wrong, he will likely have at least another year to prove himself. So Tua fans shouldn't be tooooo butthurt about the fair criticisms, since ya boi will have a chance to improve.

    And TUA has already improved in a lot of areas that I could go in depth on, and will happily if it will assuage you Tua Fan boys that I'm not a hater of TUA. He's a great kid with a great heart, and surprisingly good poise for such a young fella esp with all the doubt from fans and FO alike, he's handled it pretty well, well at least up until the last few games. He made a few good throws but otherwise, I've been underwhelmed.

    TUA performs against NO, and is a primary reason for that (hopeful) WIN, I will loosen my 'jack boot on his throat' a bit, as seems to be the perception here.

    But let us not forget. DUUUUUUUUKE JOHNSON saved our season. I am pretty sure we lose that game without his highly impressive performance, total momentum change in the second half, the Dolphins looked dead in the water until towards the end of the second quarter or so...

    I wish I saw more DUUUUKE threads, because he can stay healthy, he has the tools to revitalize his career in MIami, and MAYBE even be RB1 next year. I think it's a given he will be RB 1 the rest of this year, unless he has a major (MAJOR) drop off in performance, because Gaskin and Ahmed just aint coming close to 'cutting it.'

    As far as I'm concerned our season ended last week. Franchise QBs dont let their season end to a 3-10 Jets. They had 2 weeks to prepare for a **** team, and because no Waddle, they had absolutely no answer.

    Our defense kept us in the game, until Duuuke showed up and gave us the spark we normally woulda been getting from J-Wad. If anything, Tua did his damndest to end our season last week.

    I don't need another long-term mediocre non-clutch Tannehill. I don't want to be holdng on that long again unless we see some real strides, primarily in Tua's ability to stretch the field, and NOT have to rely totally on the RPO scheme.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  29. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Carson Wentz ?
    Carson Wentz sucks ***.
     
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  30. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Wentz is 5 years older. The fact that he isn't head and shoulders above Tua says it all.
     
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  31. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the subtext of this conversation. The folks who brought his name into the conversation didn't do it as a favorable comparison to #1.

    As previously stated, this kid could walk across water to save a sinking canoe full of drowning orphans and the first thing he'd be confronted with upon his return to shore would be a chorus of Dolphins fans asking him why he can't swim.

    "Justin Herbert can swim," they'd all remind him.
     
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  32. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    LOL, I can't with the Tua-haters anymore, Carson ****ing Wentz, are you kidding me??
     
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  33. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Lets look at it this way, present day:

    guys you would clearly take over tua, guys tua is on par with, guys tua is better than. Again this is current season and forward only, cap implocations age and all that.

    Guys better than tua:
    Allen, Murray, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Herbert,

    guys on par with tua: carr cousins Prescott Wilson Stafford Tannehill Ryan


    Guys Tua is better than: newton, wilson, jones (m), jones (d), goff, fields, mayfield, Bridgewater, Roethlisberger, hieneke, Wentz, lawrence, Hill, Garopolo, whatever is starting in houston.


    Guess what? That puts him year to year 8th-15th. You run with that.
     
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  34. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Is Lamar Jackson a better quarterback than Tua?
     
  35. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    I mean, he has an MVP
     
  36. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    It looks like defenses have him figured out, and as a passer he’s been a little less than average. Maybe he can come back, but until he shows he can regularly beat cover zero he isn’t in the top drawer of NFL QBs.
     
  37. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    The guys that you said Tua is on par with are all better than tua
     
  38. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I think the reality is there are 4-5 “elite” QB’s in the NFL that are head and shoulders above the rest. They can absolutely carry a team and are the X factor to win a super bowl in the playoffs. Then it’s a competition to see who’s in that next tier of QB. I have concerns about relying on Tuas health but I think he’s shown he can at the very least be an average level(tier 3) QB but probably could be that tier 2 type of QB with a better OL and run game.

    IMO, tier 1: Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson and maybe Allen
    Tier 2: Murray, Herbert, Stafford, Burrow

    We can get into a debate about whether we should have taken Herbert at #5 or what that pick should be. But I think when you start looking at all the QB’s that were taken there or higher that haven’t panned out, I’m not going to complain about what Tua is doing.
     
  39. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they lose to the Texans instead
     
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