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NY Jets @ Dolphins (Dec 19 - 1PM)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pennington's Limp Arm, Dec 13, 2021.

  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'll say this, Tua has really impressed me the past 6 games. Everyone knows I was not a fan of the pick at that spot, but it's looking like Tua is going to prove me wrong. So I get where some people are coming from, but I've seen FAR more than I expected to see from Tua. And that has me hoping, for the first time in a long time.
     
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  3. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Tua is like Covid. Either you believe in the vaccine or you don’t.
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    Total joke. Kinda. COVID’s not funny. But it’s a little funny.
     
  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Glad to hear that. But even for Tua supporters it's important to note that Tua needs to keep improving or he's not "the One". Obviously he needs to get rid of some of the bad decisions he still makes (I'm confident he'll do this), but one thing we haven't seen this year is him "carrying the team" late in the game after being down by a TD or more. He did that his rookie year against Arizona, which demonstrates he can do it, but we need to see this more regularly. That's not necessary for most games, but it's the difference between a championship winning QB and one that is likely to falter in the playoffs.

    Anyway, he's right where I was hoping he'd be in year 2, around 95 rating. In year 3 he needs to cross that 100 mark and we should be set at QB. It would be such a change of atmosphere to not have to worry about finding that franchise QB anymore.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You probably know what I'm going to say, but I hate QB Rating because it's in such a vacuum- a 100+ QB Rating effort from Tua, Rodgers and Jackson are going to look VERY DIFFERENT when you watch the tape. Tua has been hitting those numbers with a historically bad offensive line, one of the worst run games this season and multiple starting receivers out THE ENTIRE SEASON. I mean, has he played a single game with Fuller, Parker, Williams and Waddle on the field? I don't think he has.

    I get the critics of Tua...he's not very exciting. But what he's done these past six weeks in spite of everything around him is somewhat miraculous. For instance, you said Rosen was a bust because when he was in the same situation in Arizona, he never once had an above average game. Part of that failure was clearly his environment.

    I do agree with you that he has a lot more to prove and a lot of room to still grow, but wouldn't going from one of the worst lines in the history of the league to an average line be worth 5 points in QB rating? Or some semblance of a run game? I think the team around him has more growing to do than he does personally for us to be able to measure him by pure metrics.

    I know you disagree, LOL, but I had to give my two cents.
     
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  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well you correctly predicted I disagree. Now you just need to correctly predict my response and you have a cbrad simulator! EGAD!

    There's no question rating will improve with better surroundings, but bad surroundings is no excuse for not "carrying the team", the main point in my post. Tua's played well, but he hasn't played like an elite QB at any time during this stretch. The Dolphins were enamored with Watson precisely because he CAN play at elite levels even with a bad surrounding cast. That 2018 season for him was amazing, one of the best in the NFL that year despite an OL that on tape actually looked worse than what Tua has. Yet the QB played at elite levels and Houston had an 11-5 record that season.

    We're going to need that in the playoffs, and Tua hasn't yet shown that yet (except maybe the Arizona game). Not saying he won't do so in the future, but the bar has to be set at the level of "win despite adversity in big games and in the playoffs", not "play well enough so that people are willing to excuse not playing better due to bad surrounding cast".

    Just watch who wins the SB this year. It'll once again be a team with an elite QB or one that played elite, you know a QB whose team is never really out of the game. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady and Murray are your best bets (Wilson has played elite but this year his team isn't good). No one is mistaking Tua for those guys right now. Next year needs to be different. But Tua's on track for sure.
     
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  7. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I do agree to some extent, but you have to realize that Watson is a generational talent...he's not the norm. We had this same conversation about Russell Wilson and Mahommes for many years- they do things that typical starting QB's can't fathom. These are almost locks for HOF players in the future and it is unfair to compare a QB with around 20 starts to them. Tua is essentially still in his rookie season.

    Here I STRONGLY disagree for two reasons. First off, I believe that we're getting close to having a generationally-strong defense that can shut down almost anyone. If Jones and Howard have even a typical game at their talent levels, that's taking the other team's perimeter threats out of the equation and forcing them to beat us through the slot or TE. Most teams cannot do that with consistency- maybe Green Bay or KC? But I think our defense gives us a shot against anyone.

    Second, Tua has to be good enough to out-pace the other team's offense as they struggle against our D. If he was a Jet, that means scoring 35+ a game...nope, he's not good enough to thrive there. But in Miami, with this defense, I would argue that he's already good enough to accomplish that goal.

    I'm not counting us out of the Super Bowl this year for the reasons I just provided. I know, I know, we might not even make the playoffs. But if we do sneak in, there aren't too many teams in the AFC that terrify me. KC is really the only one. If we can beat the Saints ,Titans and Patriots these last three weeks, then I also think we can beat just about anyone.

    I know it's a Herculean task just getting to the playoffs. But if we do, then we're riding the league's best win streak at that point and anything's possible. I'm trying to be realistic here but heck, its hard not to start getting excited.
     
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  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Be still, my heart.
     
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  10. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's shocking! I said in my hot-take summary of the game that the line played much better, but wow...
     
  12. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I don't have the Oline smarts some people do have but I think they need some time together to gel. Moving pieces around all the time isn't helping. Whether as a need or just because of play, I just don't think it helps the linemen gel into a unit.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree- it takes time and repetition for a line at any level. Even if you have five complete studs (we don't, LOL), they need to figure out how to work together and cover each other's weaknesses. To me, that's been the biggest problem for a long time now...there's been no consistency.

    At least we have that for the moment and I do think they'll continue to grow- both individually and as a squad. The 2nd one is much more important in the grand scheme of things.
     
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