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Rumour/Report that Flores is losing the locker room

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 25, 2021.

  1. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    We statistically have the worst defense in the nfl. Given up the most yards in the nfl this season and second most points. The defense has clearly quit on him. If we didn’t have all the tua / watson drama I think people would be talking about how **** the defense has been.
     
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  2. Big Phin

    Big Phin Active Member

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    there's a lot to be disappointed about with this team this year. The defense has to be number one on that list as the most disappointing, imo.
     
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  3. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I think the locker room issues can be tied to lack of veteran leadership. The NE Patriot way of cutting or trading expensive veterans works when you are winning Super Bowls but not when you are a bottom dweller trying to get to the playoffs.
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely. Winning in the NFL is very hard and it comes down to the little things. Just in the final two drives the past two weeks...one stop on a 3rd down and the game is over. With Van Noy defending the run, we're probably on a two-game win streak right now. I think that's the only difference between last year's 10-win team and this year's 1-win team; the talent is pretty comparable, but we just don't have the leaders to step up and make those game-winning tackles when everything is on the line.
     
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  5. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It appears to me the downfall of Flores is likely to circle around two things.

    1. The hiring of co-offensive co-ordinators. In a sense it was at least somewhat understandable. They were trying to keep consistency for Tua rather than starting all over with a new OC again forcing a guy who was thrust into action too early to relearn a new system again. However it's obvious that this isn't working. Although I am interested to see if this offensive "outburst" the last two weeks is simple because of playing two bad defenses in a row or is it a matter of Tua coming around and getting comfortable now. The last two weeks to me he looked like a different QB than the Tua of last year. Those two INT's though... Ugh. Can't have that. Points on at least one of those drives rather than the INT and we win that game yesterday. Now imagine you're a player though and you look at the obvious struggles on offense with this current system, and you see no real change happening to solve the problems; how do you feel? Well, exactly the way that LaConfora is presenting likely.

    2. The signing and prompt release of some key names on defense. Kyle Van Noy for one. A guy who contributed; was a known commodity, likely a locker room asset as well and key mentor for our very young roster. McKinney is another; trade for the guy, then move on from him before he plays. I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting here but I think were starting to see a trend here of guys coming over to play and be mentors an then getting the rug pulled out from underneath them and treated like a POS really. It's rubbing guys the wrong way clearly; especially when it results in the unit being less talented and struggling overall. Not having those veterans in key positions to help the young guys and take on those leadership roles I think is a key contributing factor into the struggles on defense.

    I also think you can add in the poor handling of this entire Tua/Watson situation by the Miami Dolphins as a whole for being a concern for many guys in that locker room. I don't think it should be a surprise to us fans that other players in that locker room who are likely being drilled about "professionalism" off the field from Flores now considering the option of bringing in a guy currently facing 22 cases/allegations of sexual assault. it kind of goes against all the things he's likely been preaching. The FO hasn't really gone out of its way to deny it, Flores himself has only said "Tua is our QB. I'm happy with our situation". Sure; that's addressing it but it is not really convincing and I think the whole scenario of forcing Tua in last year (whether that was a Flores or Grier call; who knows!) and now quickly looking to move on before he's had a real shot to grow and the replacement you're considering is likely going to cost future assets with a whole lot of unknown when he can actually suit up and help the team will surely help create a situation of misery and distrust in that locker room.

    Either way; it's sad to see because outside of football Brian Flores seems like a great guy and a great person to be the leader of this team for the long term; however it's likely at this point it won't work out. Winning cure's alot though; and I'm sure if we had been able to pull out that win yesterday

    If I'm Ross though here's what I do to solve this. This year is obviously over. So you fire Chris Grier immediately because it's obvious he hasn't delivered with all the draft resources he had stockpiled; and he's actually harmed the team moving into this draft by getting cute moving around last year. Not having our own first pick this year is going to be really hard to swallow. Then after Grier is given the boot you give Flores the rest of the year to coach for his job. I think watching the last two weeks it is obvious to me the team hasn't quit on him yet. They fought hard the last two weeks and there seems to be a jolt of energy there with Tua back and playing fairly well. So let him keep coaching the rest of the year, maybe force him to make some changes on the offensive staff, and possibly defense at this point too and see where it goes. When you start to see the obvious signs of the team quitting on him and we're getting blown out due to lack of effort (not lack of talent; there's a difference IMO) then you pull the plug on Flores. There's just no sense to me in a mid-season change unless it is necessary at this point. we're 1-6; it's over. This team isn't built to win 8 or 9 in a row to be in the playoff conversation. So just let him coach it out until it's obvious they've quit on him. Right now; I just don't think we're there yet but it seems inevitable.
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Say what you will about McCain in coverage, however when he was out there people were in the right position in the zone. Zone defense just seems like giving up this year.
     
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  7. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bingo. Essentially what I'm trying to say in point #2 in my novel above. You can't treat your vet players like crap when you have a young roster like this. You need those guys. Those were great signings, and we just kicked them to the curb like it was no big deal. It is a big deal though. You've got a lot of young guys in that room due contracts soon; they won't forget that kind of treatment and they'll think twice about committing long term at a fatter salary if it doesn't mean security as well.
     
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  8. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Nothing tests the resolve of unity more than adversity. It’s easy to be unified when one is winning. It’s equally difficult to remain United in continuous defeat
     
  9. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    This is what has me perplexed, why would they make these moves? KVN wasn’t expensive. He had one more year on the contract. Even if you expect Baker and AVG to profess, what does getting rid of him for one year do for you?

    Did they tell Ross they were going to take a step back this year to take a step forward?

    I’m not sure how either of them thought our pass rush wouldn’t get worse with these moves. Not to mention the issues we’ve discussed on locker room/leadership. We still can’t stop the run. Why trade Lawson for McKinney and then just axe him?

    It’s clear that their “vision” is cloudy as hell.
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I think the bigger issue is Grier, and most of our current problems stem from the fact that Tua was forced in last year against the wishes of Flores and Gailey. Gailey left in disgust, and no OC wanted to come here, which is why Flores was forced to go with co-OCs. The jettisoning of veterans I believe is also on Grier, van Noy for example is a Flores guy, I doubt Flores would want to let him go unless he was pressured by Grier, and Grier is ultimately responsible for personnel moves. Our terrible drafting also falls on Grier. Until we get a competent GM in here our problems will continue. I say fire Grier as soon as possible, then let the new GM decide what to do with Flores.
     
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  11. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    A lot of weird things happening on D.
    Rowe was great last year and was breaking up everything in preseason. Yet he looses his job easily to a min wage 35 year old?? Looks better than McCourtey when he actually plays.

    Either way a defensive coach with the worst defense in the league… You Get embarrassed by 40 points every time you play the top dog in the division. No way to survive this. He is done.
     
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  12. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think that Grier is absolutely gone. I think the only reason that he hasn't been fired already is that they need him to make this trade. If we fire them now, and Ross or Dan Marino gets on the phone to complete this deal with the Texans, they would know that this is absolutely coming from Ross, and they have a license to fleece us. With Grier, there is at leas the perception that if they are asking too much, we can walk away from the deal. If it is Ross or anyone else, we are going to be paying a super premium.

    I think in the beginning of December, I would tell Grier he will not be returning.

    The next part of your plan, I really do not like. I hate arranged marriages, and this would be a big one. We would have a situation where Ross has chosen Watson. Grier chose Flores. Ross chose a GM. The Watson component essentially will be a situation where, "It is what it is." I would only hire a GM who is enthusiastic about having Watson. This will be a bed we have made, and we need to be prepared to sleep in it. The reality is we will be forcing a QB on a GM. I do not think we should force a head coach onto a GM as well.

    In doing that, you have created an organizational mess, if we are bad next year, it will be difficult to tell who the problem is. Flores will be working under a GM that he did not sign under. You would really have to ask, "Does Flores and the new GM share the same vision?" Probably not. I highly doubt that the new GM would want Flores of all coaches. If I were the GM, much like Grier did, I would want to bring in a guy that I feel comfortable working with - my guy. I would want my success or failure to be determined by my actions - not the actions of my predecessor.

    You could always hire a yes-man who would be puppies and unicorns about everyone, but trust me, that would create a new basket of problems.

    I really do like Grier, and I would love to see him get a chance with Watson, but I kinda feel like I know how this is headed.
     
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  13. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    There is no scenario where you have to go with co-OCs. Its just ludicrous. And Tua being forced in is not a fact. No matter how many times you guys repeat it its still not a fact.

    And once again from the story about Flores wanting Herbert

     
  14. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Either way, Grier is ultimately responsible for personnel moves. Don't try to put it all on Flores. I don't think Flores is perfect either, but the bigger problem is Grier.
     
  15. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Grier should go but Flores looks to be a big problem as well
     
  16. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    The new GM can decide what to do with Flores, they need to be given the option to fire him by Ross if they feel they can't work with him.

    I'm also alarmed that Grier is (probably) working on a Watson trade. He is desperate to keep his job, so why not agree to a bad deal if it saves his job for at least another year? Ross really is clueless if he gives Grier carte blanche to negotiate for Watson.
     
  17. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    we also have a no experienced DC coordinator who does t call the right defense in situations. Both OC and DC coordinators should be fired and replaced with people with proven track records
     
  18. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Well, if it’s not already completely lost, the thrashing Buffalo will be giving us this weekend should be the final nail in the coffin. I wonder if we’ll open up as 10+ point underdogs.
     
  19. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    13.5 point underdogs.
     
  20. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Not big enough. I'd still bet on the Bills to cover.
     
  21. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I expected Dolphins +17.5 or higher.

    On the other hand, the over/under on number of damaged ribs for Tua during this game is 4.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It will be coming
     
  23. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    YES. I honestly think that was the plan the entire time. See what Tua was made of and go there with Watson being the ace in the back pocket with all this.
     
  24. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    This is what worries me about Flores. Grier has botched numerous things, but until this year I thought Flo was doing ok. Our defense has regressed significantly and that’s supposed to be his area of expertise. Part of the problem is the personnel moves, but they look both lost and uninspired out there, with a few exceptions, and that’s on the coach.
     
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  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Ogdba and Wilkins are playing really well.
     
  26. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Both Grier and Flo have both seriously screwed the pooch. Grier has done it for too long of a period. He should have been shown the door head first last year. All of that draft capital?..the misses?....ah man. He gotta' go.
     
  27. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    And those two are my exceptions. The LB corps has not played well, neither has our high priced secondary
     
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  28. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    -Bills at home and coming off a bye week?
    -Bills have beaten the Dolphins 6 straight
    -Average margin of victory has been 20 pts
    -Dolphins have currently lost 6 straight.

    should be +21.5. I’m getting in now.
     
  29. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It's what cost Matt Patricia his job here in Detroit, but it goes a lot deeper than just not having vets. It's just all the bull**** that BB can pull because he has a bunch of rings that these clowns think they can get other teams who haven't won jack to buy into. Secrecy BS, the way they treat and approach media, the way they deal with the team ... everything.

    Flores managed to get an "us vs. the world" thing going for the first few years when we were bad and had no expectations, but as soon as the expectations were raised and pressure is on, he's fallen apart completely. And much of it is due to his own stubbornness.
     
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  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I've had people arguing with me in game day threads that the defense is a great defense, it's just the offense is so bad.

    The denial about the defense is strong.
     
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, the defense started out pretty good- but the offense couldn't do anything. You get enough 3-and-outs and any defense is going to give up big yards on the day.

    Now that we're moving the ball though and being more competitive, it's clearly the defense self-destructing. The last two was 100% on the D.
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah... The defense is what it always was. It's not like they were dominating teams in the first half, and then falling apart in the second half. Yeah, more points piled on more in the second half, due to fatigue and probably just not caring (since the offense sucked), but they were giving up points in the first half too.
     
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