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Tua INT

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 24, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    A risky throw, but not horribly placed. He trusted the TE to get it but since the coverage was too heavy for any mistakes it was not a good decision for that reason.
     
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I never followed that guy but That’s the kind of tweets ck puts out now? Deshaun has not been charged with any crimes.. wtf? Lets wait till all the facts are out before we label him that way.
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Lol
    Watson is a sex predator
     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That second video shows the ball was placed in a location where the TE couldn't get it. That was Tua's fault.
     
  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Even if he had placed it correctly, the ball should never have been thrown anyways. It was a bad decision and a bad throw, double whammy.
     
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  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    While I 100% agree, his post was the funniest thing I've read this week.
     
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  8. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, our boy was really out there with that one. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  9. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree, if he breaks out across into the open area in front of the goal line instead of continuing into the endzone when Tua releases the ball, it's a TD. Ball would have been right at his facemask with his body blocking the high safety. Why did he push that route into the safety over the top instead of breaking to the hole in coverage? He tried when he saw the ball, but it was half way there by then and he was wrong footed to cut.
     
  10. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why? CK is not a court of law. Not seeing a problem if he wants to believe dozens of women. He doesn't have to wait on charges, presume innocence, or have a reasonable doubt standard.
     
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  11. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, he didn't even try and catch it. Risky throw though and a costly pick.
     
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of what Smythe did or didn't do, it was a bad read and a dumb decision.
     
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  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Not true.

    If Smythe runs his correct route that is potentially a touchdown, pass interference, or an incomplete. It wasn't a dumb decision.
     
  15. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Opinons, bro.
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It was the right read, it was a cover-2
     
  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    No. It was a bad decision. When you listed the good things that could have happened with that pass. you forgot to mention that the pass could be picked off and cost the team points.
    ..and uhh, that’s exactly what happened.
     
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  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is generally what happens when the receiver runs the wrong route.
     
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  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  20. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I agree. How many times have we all heard time and time again…put the ball up and give your receiver a chance?

    Risky pass? Sure, it was but a dumb decision? Absolutely not. Had Smythe caught that ball, it would have been a TD that folks around here would have had a viagra induced erection over due to the GREAT pass…but as Smythe made no effort to try and catch it and it was picked off, Tua sucks.

    Remember, Tagovailoa did have FOUR touchdown passes in that game. That’s nothing to sneeze at. If the defense would have shown up, this would have been a completely different conversation
     
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  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    There's an angle on the end-zone interception which shows Tua threw the ball before Smythe broke, that is, with anticipation, but that Smythe curled too much. Had he broken right quicker that would have been a TD. So the question is, did Smythe run the right route? If he did, Tua's pass was off. If he didn't Tua trusted his receiver who let him down. If the latter then the question becomes, should Tua throw a pass he can make, into coverage, but which depends on his receiver getting it right, or should he avoid those plays.
     
  22. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We also know the coverage and where the defenders were. Running the corner like Smythe did keeps him covered. Running an out like Tua threw, gets him open. PFF had Tua's on target percentage for that game at better than 97%, which is insanely good. PFF, so grain of salt, but anyone that doesn't see how good Tua played against Atlanta doesn't know football. I trust that Tua was making the correct decisions for most of that game. CK pointed out that he missed a blitz and he did, other than that, you have people saying that the picks were too aggressive because they were picks. I find that to be nonsense. They gave up 30 and it would have been more if Atlanta needed it. Anyone doubt the Falcons could have finished that last drive in the endzone? He has to be that aggressive for the Dolphins to have a chance. They need points.
     
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  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    With more information, the only problem I have with the Smythe pick is the fact that he was throwing it to Smythe. If that was to Gesicki or even Hunter Long, I would feel better about that play.

    The Waddle interception I see what he was doing. If Waddle didn't move he might have caught the ball, however, he probably would have been smashed. I like him taking risks, that one I lean towards just taking the sack. It wasn't even for a lot of yards. Those are one of those plays where even when they do work out I don't think the quarterback should have thrown the pass.
     
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  24. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That pass should not have been thrown period. He was double covered, and the safety was right there to make the play on the ball. Even if Smythe had made a sharper break the safety would have been there to at least break it up.

    He also threw up a floater. If you are going to squeeze it in like that you better put some mustard on it and put it where only your guy can get it. Tua doesn't have the arm to throw into tight coverage like that. He should have thrown it to someone else, there were other options on that play which were more open, but he just locked in on his first read.

    It was simply a bad decision and bad execution by Tua.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  25. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He made no break, he continued toward the corner until he saw the ball, then he fell as his feet weren't in position to make a break. If he had made a break the ball would have hit him in the facemask and he would have been in position in-between the safety and the ball. #45 with the under/inside coverage also had Waddle in his zone. Look at #45, he is watching Waddle and feeling Smythe while keeping his hips and left foot ready to break down on Waddle until Tua throws the ball. He doesn't turn until Tua has released his throw. If Tua throws that ball to Waddle he has one cut that his drop is keeping his feet positioned to make, and 5 yards to blow that play up as Waddle is coming toward him. Where as if Smythe runs the out, the safety is trailing and has to go through Smyths back to get the ball, and 45 cannot react faster than he does because he has to be in position for Waddle. The second video with the endzone view shows all of this clearly, you can slow motion through it. Look at their hips and feet and where everyone is compared to where the ball is. Really good veiw. He locked in on his first read because it was there. That's what you are supposed to do when a first read is there. It's why it's first.

    Also, He didn't throw a "floater", the ball would have been very catchable, perfectly placed and timed. It didn't raise on him or slow. What do you think a "floater" does?
     
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  26. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see your point there. And Waddle acted like he expected Tua to start a scrambling, which might have been the better read. I saw that OJ thought that was the right read. Tua wasn't scrabling though. He was stepping up and throwing to where he thought his WR was going to be.
     
  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I'm not going to argue it was the best decision ever, but the more I watch the play the more I can see that Tua had the defense dead to rights. He throws the ball and beats the two defenders in front of Smythe. The pass is perfectly catchable and a guaranteed TD if Smythe turns and cuts across. It's thrown right there. Instead, because Smythe isn't there, the ball gets picked off by the third defender.

    Here's the ball in the air already, Smythe is clear of the front two defenders:

    upload_2021-10-27_0-10-23.png

    Now here's the ball dropping down, Smythe is already almost in position to catch it, his head is turned:

    upload_2021-10-27_0-13-28.png

    upload_2021-10-27_0-14-39.png

    Still there and the ball is all Smythe's, he's in front of the last defender and the ball is his:
    upload_2021-10-27_0-15-11.png

    But instead of moving into the centre space straight right, Smythe keeps going deep, behind the defender and allows the defender to come up and draw level.
    Notice where Smythe ends up:

    upload_2021-10-27_0-16-35.png

    upload_2021-10-27_0-18-13.png

    The ball wasn't threatened by the first two defenders and couldn't be taken away by the third if Smythe puts himself in front, to catch it.

    It was a tight window throw, it was risky, but it was in the right place and was catchable if Smythe breaks in front of the defender instead of going deeper.

    Maybe this was supposed to be a deep corner ball and Tua threw it short. Maybe Smythe thought it was and screwed up. But running that route like he did, it seems like he's unaware of the defender, because it's Smythe who allowed him to gain position on him. He's a TE. That big body is something he's supposed to use.

    So this isn't a horrible pass, it's not poorly thrown. This is Tua trusting his TE with a risky catch.
     
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  28. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    In terms of other open receivers, I only see one.

    upload_2021-10-27_0-24-38.png

    I think that's Gesicki running straight out on the left and he's double-covered tight.

    Waddle runs short across the field and could be given the ball but there's a defender right there.

    18 (I think?) - at the bottom - is open, but there's less chance for him to go anywhere.

    It's a quick throw, Tua is alreadying seeing Smythe in a position to score, he knows he can get the ball to him in position (and he does), but Smythe doesn't get to where he needs to be.

    Obviously, no one likes interceptions, but I'd rather have a QB will to take these sorts of risks, going for goal, knowing he can make the pass, than one who doesn't. That's been one of our complaints, right? No aggression.

    I'm not saying this is a perfect choice. I'm just saying that I can't hate this play. He took a chance, made the throw, but the TE let him down.

    And as for arm-strength and beaming it in there, I'm not sure that would work. He has to float it a little because Smythe needs time to turn and get beyond the front defender. The bit of float on this ball is no indication of a weak arm. It's timing and placement factoring in the defenders and Smythe's movement, which ultimately was incorrect.

    If we have a QB who can place these tight throws that's a positive, but what we'll need is receivers who can run crisp routes and be where they need to be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    A few others have taken a look at this too - discussion in the Twitter thread:

     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I just don't think it is a good idea to throw the ball into the middle of the field while falling down. I have seen it work, and people love Wilson/Mahomes for making those plays. I just don't think they are a good idea for the most part. If it was 4th down, sure. 1st down, take the sack.

    That is just my opinion.
     
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  31. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    He didn't run the route perfectly, but tua should not expect him to run the route perfectly. Even if he did run the route perfectly, I believe the safety would have been there to bat the ball down or at least make it a hard catch because the ball was in the air too long, allowing the safety ample time to make a break on it and get in position to make a play. What I mean by floating is that tua threw a curve ball. To give you a baseball analogy Tua is a curveball pitcher. He doesn't have much of a fastball and relies more on touch and accuracy to hit his spots. A curve ball will get to the plate, but it takes a lot longer to get there than a good fastball, which in football is a disadvantage because it gives defenders more time to react and make a play on the ball. There are certain throws where a curve ball with touch is warranted, but throwing into double coverage with a safety coming downhill is not one of them.

    I also noticed tua does this when throwing out routes. He will get rid of the ball a lot sooner than most QBs with stronger arms, because he knows his ball will take longer to get there so he has to compensate by anticipating the break more than normal.

    I believe defenders will start to pick up on this eventually and there may be some ugly pick sixes in Tua's future.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  32. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not that he didn't run a perfect route. It's that he ran the wrong route. A big TE has to be able to catch with contact in the NFL.

    Tua's arm strength is fine. He doesn’t have a cannon by any means, and yes, he is going to have to throw with anticipation and accuracy, but he has always done that. Honestly, it's not like we have a line that gives a QB time to wait on throws anyway. His arm is noticeably stronger this year than last. Hips matter. There is a reason why Brees has always been his ceiling comparison. Fingers crossed that he develops like Drew did, but faster. Will he throw pick sixes? Of course. So did Marino.

    He is going to have bad games and terrible throws. He may never come close to Brees. Last Sunday he was amazing. If he can make that his standard of play, he has greatness in his future. Huge if.
     
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  33. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he has always relied on touch and anticipation, and that worked in Alabama throwing to wide open all star receivers, but in the NFL with tighter windows and faster reacting defenders you need to have arm strength to be great. Name me one elite QB in todays NFL that doesn't have a strong arm?

    And I really don't think Brees is a valid comparison for Tua either. Brees had a significantly stronger arm and greater football IQ than Tua does. I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't see Brees level elite play in Tua's future. His cieling is good, not great.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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