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X Extension DONE!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    You are not getting my point!
     
  2. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    The guy signed an extension to be the highest paid cb in the league correct?In what alternate reality do you think he will still be the highest paid cb a year or 2 later.Its called setting the market!And by the way he played in only 33 games the last 3 years.Be happy with what you get.
    The dolphins would be stupid to pay him a dime more.Play out or contract or rot at home.That did wonders for levon bells career.
     
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  3. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, I'm doing a combo of disagreeing with and dismissing it. I don't think that X's situation is as easily reproduced as you do. He is setting precedent for a truly elite player, not the vast majority of players. Most players would have very little leverage with his contract situation.
     
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  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Here's another simple way of looking at this.
    Let's assume that the Dolphins would love to keep Howard on their team and would love to pay him whatever he wants, all else being equal. Why would they just do that, then?

    The answer is the cap.

    The Dolphins cannot simply agree to pay Howard more, even if they want to, because that money is connected to a lot of other things.

    That's no new revelation, of course, but then, that's the point.

    The idea that Howard can sign a multi-year contract that he is happy with and then change his mind and want more - seeking the most money he can get - does show disloyalty to the team, because the existence of the cap means that the only way he can get that extra money may be to leave and go to another team instead.

    That may be fine for him, but it is potentially very damaging to the team effort. He has effectively signed on to do a job and the Dolphins planned to count on him to do that job for them for that time, but now he's threatening to walk away from the job and there may not be someone else available to do it. The rest of the team may well be depending on him, and the whole effort, the whole project, may suffer and not be able to be done to standard, because of it.

    There's more here than just money. There's the goal of winning games by building a balanced team in an environment with limited resources. Teams can't just pay one player more without letting other players go or paying them less. So if Howard really considers walking away and going to another team then that shows a real disloyalty to the Miami Dolphins, their efforts to win, and to the fans who want to see their team win.

    I really hope he's committed to the team and willing to accept an honest offer from them rather than walk away and continue to build the team but if he walks away, then it's just greed.
     
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  5. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he gets anyone else's point!
     
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  6. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be fair, this might be a great chance to get rid of a big contract.

    The only reason people like Xavien Howard are the INTs. Those 10 plays on their own make people like him. But what if he only generates 2 or 3 this year? Is he worth a ton of money? It's not like he's a shut-down CB. He's a good CB with exceptional ball skills.

    What's more, the entire Dolphins defense feasted on a slew of bad QBs last season. While X did pick off Wilson, Mahomes and Allen, who says his 10 INTs weren't also partly to due with playing guys like Minshew, Darnold, Garoppolo, Flacco and whoever it was Cincy put out.

    There's a reason he didn't win DPOY. I'm sorry but getting your hands on a ton of footballs doesn't make you a perfect player.
     
  7. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!

    That has been rolling over in my mind since this whole thing has started.
     
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  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The Dolphins have plenty of cap space. They have $60 million in cap space next year with only 3 players who are worth bigger contracts. An extra $3 or $4 million to Howard isn't going to hurt their cap that much.
     
  9. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The reason being Aaron Donald, who, as a DEFENSIVE TACKLE, was putting up ridiculous sack numbers.
     
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree- there's no way 10 picks per year is his "baseline" expectation for production. Not to take anything away from him because he is a great player, but to me this feels more like the Suh situation where the productivity can't match the price tag long-term.

    I do believe X is one of the top corners in the league and I have no problem with him getting paid. But if he has 6 picks next season and only plays "above average" when he's on the field, then what? If we try to renegotiate the contract, he's going to want to walk. It's almost a no-win situation for Miami unless he shocks the world again next year and puts up ridiculous numbers. We all know that's not sustainable though for the next 3-5 seasons....teams just won't throw at him at all.
     
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  11. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Defenders who rush the passer and play at the point of attack (e.g. Donald, Watt, Mack, etc.) are guys who you can build an entire front-7 around and who really do dictate the flow of the game. Aaron Donald being a 1-man wrecking crew, it's hard to imagine a single CB being considered anywhere near as important, especially one on a team that plays a lot of 5- and 6-DB coverage!
     
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  12. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In Howard's defense, 15 million a year might sound like a lot of money but, in a world of Lamborghinis and Bentleys, 15 million doesn't go but so far. I'm not sure about what point I was trying to make.
     
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  13. JIGGAJOE

    JIGGAJOE Active Member

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    At first I was all for X getting a little raise to match Byron and maybe some more guaranteed money. With those two the back end of our defense is in good hands.

    Now, I read a report that says he is upset other players are getting extended before he is paid. If that is true, and he is using that as his argument, trade him immediately. That's just a very childish way to handle your business. Especially after you already have a lucrative contract on the books.
     
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  14. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    But we don't have an Aaron Donald. We have an Xavien Howard, who is the best player on the defense.
     
  15. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's more of a thing with Byron Jones TBH. Howard's looking across the field and seeing his teammate make more money and it's not sitting well with him.

    Players are prideful and being "top dog" at the bank when you're "top dog" on the field means a lot to them. He's also seen Noah Igbinoghene enter the fray which is a clear signal that the team wants to be prepared in the event they might ever need to (or want to) cut ties with X.

    This isn't so different than when an employer asks an existing employee to help train a new employee. The existing employees feels like they're transferring knowledge only to make themselves redundant and thus rarely want to help in that process.

    This is just a sticky situation where the Dolphins were almost too aggressive in going after Byron Jones at the risk of what we got last year which is Xavien Howard rising to peak performance. Now X feels like the team is putting as much into replacing him as they are rewarding him.

    Ideally Xavien would overlook the salary disparity but he's got a new agent in his ear and he's worked exceptionally hard to be the team's best defender. I think he just wants the reality of the contracts to match the reality of what's happening on the field.

    I'm of the view that if the money is available and it's reasonable, the team should concede to making him happy. I just don't know what number he's imagining nor what effect(s) it might have on future signings. Those are issues for the GM.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
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  16. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know what point you're getting at.
     
  17. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    The point is he should be paid vas such.

     
  18. Dan S

    Dan S Phins up!

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    Reading about his displeasure with Jones making more money has me wondering... why are player salaries public knowledge anyway?
     
  19. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You have to elaborate. It's not clear based on 1-line posts whether you're for or against Xavien Howard making more money.

    It's also not clear whether you're saying he's as important as Aaron Donald or not.
     
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  20. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's probably a good thing, right? In the end, salaries never decrease so with them being public, you can always point to something and say, 'pay me that much (or more).' Hence we get the "record-setting" contracts year after year.
     
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  21. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I'm for Xavien Howard making more money. He had quite and has led the league in interceptions twice. Even if he doesn't snag as many interceptions this season, if he's making QBs throw away from him, he's worth it.

    As for Aaron Donald, it's a bit different. While I do think a great CB is as important as a great pass rusher since pass rushing can help with coverage and vice versa, a Defensive Tackle putting that kind of numbers over his career is extremely rare.
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So the contract he signed two years ago, making him the highest paid CB in the league, is meaningless?

    I mean, we see this every year or two with QBs, when the next big name QB gets his new contract, it's always now than the guy the year before, or two years before. If you want to renegotiate every freaking year, so that you're always the top paid, then stop signing multi year deals. Just sign one year deals, or hold out for more guaranteed money on your multi-year deal.

    The Dolphins backed the Brinks truck up two years ago, now he's unhappy. Oh well.
     
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  23. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Right now, he's number six behind Byron Jones.

    Do you believe that there are five corners better than Howard right now?
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't think there are 5 better corners than Howard, although I'd place Jones pretty darn close (less picks, tighter defender...different styles overall). But we can't control what other teams may pay those other corners either.
     
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  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The Dolphins paid Jones.

    The Dolphins paid a guy who is not playing as well more money.

    Even you you didn't write it, it is one reason that QB analogy is very wrong. Because a quarterback would throw a hissy fit if a team brought in another quarterback and paid him more money. Heck Rodgers is doing just that and they just drafted one in the first round. Which the Dolphins also did.
     
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  26. JIGGAJOE

    JIGGAJOE Active Member

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    The QB thing doesn't make any sense. You don't have multiple QB on the field unless you are running a gadget play. Hence why you don't see QB tandem rankings before the season.

    X got paid handsomely two years ago. Byron balled out and we brought him in to play WITH X, that's not a slight against X. I'll admit the Igbo draft choice was odd, but we run a ton of heavy DB packages so we needed the depth. Honestly he is making mountains out of mole hills, and I'm starting to wonder if he isn't feeling in that knee and is trying to cash out, or he is just that insecure I guess.
     
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  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I wasn't trying to compare it completely, other than how the contracts go up year after year.
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Honestly the Dolphins are making mountains out of molehills by not paying him more. They have the money. They have plenty of cap space. If the Dolphins want to be little crying babies and not pay the man his money, then they should pay the penalty of not having one of the best cornerbacks in the league who is playing on a level that is all time best on their team.

    Yes, all-time best. His play in the last three years when it comes from interception to opportunity ratio based on the era they played is one of the best of all time
     
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  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    You're assuming here that he'd be happy with that and that he's being reasonable - and let me say that he might be and that I'd be all for him getting the extra money in that situation.

    However, the other possibility is that he wants something that puts the Dolphins over a barrel - something that they can't offer without cutting players they planned to keep or putting themselves in cap hell. Basically, something that would make it less likely that they can become and remain competitive. If that's what is happening then it's selfishness on Howard's part. And even if he leaves he still damages the team because a position of strength for them may become a position of weakness, a hole to fill, and no one to fill it. And it may not be because they could have paid him the money but didn't, it may be because they can't pay him what he's asking.

    Poor behaviour. I'll refrain from saying worse.
     
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  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    As long as it works for two more years, I am fine.

    That bold part is not possible. Miami has WAY TOO MUCH cap space to go into cap hell. They have practically no one to pay.

    Next year they have Ogdba, Gieski, and Fuller. And Gisicki's replacement might already be on the team, and the team might have enough talent at wide receiver not to sign Fuller. And Ogdba isn't going to be too expensive.

    I am not saying they should, but they could double his salary for the next three years and they will be fine cap spacewise for the next two.
     
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  31. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    What if he wants his money right now? This year?
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Just look at the Saints. All Miami has to do is some salary accounting voodoo.
     
  33. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!
    Pass.
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Why? Miami is in great cap space in the next two years.
     
  35. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think Xavien Howard wants to hurt the Dolphins or cripple the roster.

    I think he's a unique player in a unique situation that feels he's justified in pressing his luck on a raise. The Dolphins have been extraordinarily active in FA over the last couple years and he's seen that. In his mind he signed a team-friendly deal last year when things were uncertain and is now one of the best players on the team and feels underpaid.

    It's as simple as that. It's not a comfortable discussion but it's business. That's what the offseason is all about. Hold-outs are not new nor do they signal the kind of divide people sometimes take them for. It's just a negotiating tactic.

    We'll see how Chris Grier and the Dolphins handle this situation. Once again, there's plenty of logic in upping X's compensation. Then again, it wouldn't be hard to justify trading him either. I suspect Chris Grier will do his duty. I for one think the Dolphins are better with X so I hope things get worked out. He seems like a good dude.
     
  36. JIGGAJOE

    JIGGAJOE Active Member

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    It's all speculative. I don't know and have seen no reports of what the dolphins have or have not offered. They very well could be making the situation worse over a couple of million a year. If so, I think that would be pretty dumb. I believe X is worth negotiating with, but if he is being unreasonable I don't understand what you want them to do.

    Based on the reports I have read, and assuming they're accurate. I stand by my statement that he is making mountains out of mole hills.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I stand by my statement that I completely disagree with you.
     
  38. JIGGAJOE

    JIGGAJOE Active Member

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    Lol shocker bud.
     
  39. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    This thread really has legs. Lots of opinions. LOL.

    I maintain my opinion that any player who is smart/stupid/greedy/aware enough to do anything to improve his situation (more money, different team, other use in a scheme) has my support. With that being said, if Miami draws a line and holds to it that they're not paying him a penny more, I'm fine with that as well. He may or may not have the leverage to get a better deal and he'll either play or sit out. It's not my problem and I have better things to worry about. God bless him.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    my hope is that they can find something that works for the team and keeps X happy for at least two years.

    I think Miami is a potential superbowl team this year with X.

    The potential is very dependent, however, if the line is middle of the line and Phillips is as good as I think he will be, and the rest of the young players either improve or have a small slump, this team can be very dangerous.
     
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