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X Extension DONE!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    RONG!
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    *wrong
     
  3. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Deshaun Watson is doing it right now.
     
  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He is still under contract
     
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  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I struggle to see X's position on this in any good way.
    I hate to say it, but he's basically just coming off as a malcontent. It perhaps stems from wrong expectations, and those may themselves be generated by a false narrative present in the league, but there's no issue with his contract, he has just decided he wants more.

    Xavien agreed to play for a certain number of years for a certain amount and as far as I recall, he was very happy it. However, he has apparently come to believe that the agreed upon amount doesn't properly reflect the value he brings as a player and so, he wants the deal changed. There are three things to say about that.

    First - who says that contracted pay, within the NFL, ever can reflect the value of the player, at least, over time? Money constantly shifts in the league. Caps rise and fall. New contracts are made. Almost all contracts will 'grow old' quickly and not look 'reflective of talent'. On a personal level, it's never a good idea to allow shifting circumstances and outside appearances play with your contentment. The more you allow that to happen, the more you'll be on unstable ground. On a league level, the expectation is just wrong. When your contract comes up, that's the time to negotiate something you're happy with, as best you can. After that, enjoy it, roll it with, and move on to the next.

    Second - by asking the GM to re-negotiate his multi-year deal he is, in effect, asking the GM to renegotiate the cap for the whole team - to reconsider everyone else's contracts too. It's not like Ross has the option to pay anyone and everyone anything he likes. So, would Howard be happy going to the rest of the Dolphins and asking them if some of them might not mind taking less, or getting cut, because he wants a bigger slice of the pie? If not, maybe he should reconsider.

    Third - This mini camp is supposed to the time when the team will all definitely be together for the first time. It's only a few days long and has only a few practises of a few hours. I don't see how anyone can look at that and not see that as letting the team down. I certainly wouldn't be able to do that. It's not like he's been personally affronted in some way. And if he feels like he has, see point one. This isn't professional.



    ....here's 2019:

     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  7. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  9. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, Howard has no more guaranteed money after this year, so give him more incentive bonuses, or another $10 million in guaranteed money on his future years (coming out of his future salary, NOT adding to it).

    Miami takes a small risk he won't live up to the guaranteed money, but Howard should be happy knowing he will see more money and not just get cut with nothing to show for it. I'd prefer to see us keep him, as you can never have too many good CBs (and pass rushers).

    On the other hand, if Iggy or someone else was ready to step up and take his place (at least good CB play, I'm not expecting elite level) then you have to think about trading him. I'd take a first (2022) and second (2023) and the extra cap space if we had a viable replacement.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, they can retire and also ask to be released. That's sort of the same thing.
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    No, the same thing would be being able to get a new contract with a new team.
     
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  12. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Howard was the top paid CB when he signed in 2019 and then missed 11 of 32 games over the next two years. Despite being one of the top CBs in the league you could argue that he was overpaid the last two years relative to his availability.
     
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  13. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Workers always think they get paid too little and Management always thinks workers get paid too much. Depends if your a worker or an owner on where you fall on this.
     
  14. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe, but I don't think he'd argue that. Also, I 100% believe, based on no proof, that he could have played more in that tank for Tua year. And, I think the FO encouraged him in not playing. Even with those missed games, he has nine more INTs over that time span than Jalen Ramsey, 8 more than Jaire Alexander, and 2 more than Tre'Davious White. I picked those CBs as they joined X on the all pro team last year.
     
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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I believe the same thing.
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, we're watching it unfold with DeShaun Watson and Aaron Rodgers- neither are reporting to work and they may have to sit out the year before their teams trade/cut them. I agree with you, it's completely wrong for contracts to be so one sided....you can see my earlier posts where the board pretty much called me crazy for suggesting players should have an equal say in their careers.

    But if they don't want to work, then they don't have to work- they can just quit (which the NFL calls "retires"). LMAO, Vontae Davis comes to mind after he "retired" at halftime.
     
  17. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    So when I signed my last contract for 110k yr plus performance bonuses and the non compete addendum to that and then decide after a while I'm worth more than that and threaten to quit I should be able to get a new job same field for more money whatever???

    Cuz I promise you from personal experiences in non NFL life it doesn't work that way.

    X man I luv ya but you signed up to give you're best in return for XXX$$$ and you want to say now...

    I signed up for my" best" but that wasn't really my best obviously so my "best" is worth way more than I thought it was so eff you I'm not going to give you my best for what my best was worth unless you pay more for what I agreed to give you for what you paid for. So suck it.

    Not a good look for anyone.
     
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  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    No one is talking about you. All industries are different.
     
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  19. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Like i said before, we can make his money guaranteed but theres no reason to extend him beyond the contract. We would be dumb as hell to give top money to a 31+ year old cornerback.
     
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  20. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    The same contract always has different requirements for each party to live up to. That's why they put it "in writing". Did you fall out of bed and not wake up?
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    So it is not the same thing. Thanks for agreeing with me.
     
  22. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Are you really that "unaware", or are you just baiting me with this nonsense?
     
  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Just admit you were wrong and move on
     
  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Every contract details what is considered to be a violation and prescribes terms of relief. X is perfectly within his rights to hold out and the team is within its rights to sanction him in any way allowed. When a team determines a player is no longer worth his contract, they cut, trade, or leverage him into a renegotiation. They're allowed to do that by their deal, just as a player is allowed to sit out if it is in his best interests subject to corrective action. I don't like X sitting out but I support him 100%.
     
  25. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’m fine with giving him more money as long as he returns the money he earned while missing 16 games in ‘18 and ‘19.
     
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  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    2019 we needed for the tank
     
  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't support him on this- even though I think he's massively talented. He signed his latest contract two seasons ago and while he's produced at high levels when he wasn't hurt, that's why we gave him a lucrative contract to begin with. If he thinks he deserves more, then sitting out is not the honest path....go to practice, show you support your team and talk to the front office directly.

    I think a lot of the "sitting out" comes from the advice of agents and in most cases, I feel like it's in bad faith. In most cases I would side with the player over management, but I feel like X's agent is pushing his luck and we might not reach an agreement. Because once you go down this path, what happens if he has 14 picks this season? Does he demand to renegotiate again?

    It puts Miami in a bad spot where they set precedent to giving anyone who has a good year more money, or turning away top talent when you don't meet those demands. Neither helps us in the long run.
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    or sent the precedent that if you work hard and do well you get rewarded.
     
  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    They did. They made him the highest paid CB in the league at the time of signing. If the suggestion now is that they have to stay there then this leads to only one path - one year contracts as standard. Everything gets negotiated every year. Horrible.
     
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  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Then they signed someone who isn't as good as him to more money.

    Dolphins should have known it was coming.
     
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  31. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Or, guaranteed contracts for both parties. Why couldn't lead to that? No more salary cap shenanigans.
     
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  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    He's been handsomely rewarded already- this is being petty.
     
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  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    No, it isn't being petty.

    X has a short window to maximize the amount of wealth he can generate in the profession of NFL football.
     
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  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I can't say that I would hold out if I was a player but I will almost always support anybody who bets on himself. He's just playing the same game that teams play every year. And Miami is perhaps the most proactive NFL team when it comes to cutting bait on players that it deems aren't worthy of their contracts. Ask Kyle Van Noy about it.

    If he demands to renegotiate and has leverage to do so, good for him.

    It's never an "honest path" when it comes to team personnel decisions, it's only always about business. It's the same for players. If players pulling this card puts teams in bad spots, where does the maneuvering of teams who are willing to cut, trade, or strong-arm players put the players? I want him back and I want the team to succeed with or without him. But I'm going to side with players over ownership as a matter of general principle.

    Without guaranteed deals, both sides have to approach their relationship with the same mindset.
     
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  35. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    It all comes down to leverage. The second his performance slips, Grier's going to tell his agent how much the team's willing to pay X if he wants to remain in Miami. It's business both ways and the best way to look at it is sans emotion.
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If it comes to that though (we give him a raise, his production wanes) then he's surely out of Miami to chase money with a different franchise, which is why I hate the current path we're on. Once it becomes solely about money, it's often the beginning of the end no matter how it plays out.

    Granted, I do agree with you that the league's INT leader should receive top compensation. In that aspect, yes, I absolutely side with the player over the franchise/owner. Like Flores said though, this is a very unique situation and there's so many ways it can go wrong.
     
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  37. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yep, now a days contracts are for leverage and cap manipulation. X's contract gives the Dolphins good leverage. He cannot play anywhere else. He could retire for a year (I think, not sure about this) and then go elsewhere, but then he'd have to pay back the signing bonus. His leverage is not playing this year, and being really good. I don't fault him for using it. He seems to want to stay, just feels he has earned more. He is clearly not going to get what he could on the open market, but if he thinks he is worth more, I am not going to have hurt feelings for him trying to get it. I don't really understand those that do. I mean, I see the argument, it just doesn't seem to jive with the reality of the NFL. I also don't have hurt feelings about KVN, though I liked him on the team.
     
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  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Superstars are the highest paid players on the team and the face of the franchise. They should be loyal to the team and to me, sitting out of practice over money is the opposite of that. When it's all about money, it gives the feel that they don't care about football or the fans as much as they should. I just find it very hard to root for those types of players...even if they are potentially the best in the league.

    Anyway, that's just my personal opinion.
     
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  39. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh, I see. I don't feel the same, but I can understand that. Thanks.
     
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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am on the opposite. I do not understand it.
     
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