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NFLPA sends memo to players recommending they skip in-person workouts

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Apr 13, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  3. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    That's not really how mutations historically have worked. They don't become more deadly or dangerous otherwise they would wipe out all potential hosts and would then die off. They actually become less deadly as they mutate because they inherently don't kill their hosts but they may become more infectious. If the sequencing becomes too far mutated, the genome can be "redone" and vaccine boosters to deal with that strain will be developed. That's why you get a different flu shot every year. It's a mutation of the original virus.

    I think were on the edge of vaccines for many common diseases through the genome sequencing breakthrough. It's "new" right now, but I think it's an exciting time for this type of technology.
     
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  4. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    It would be foolish for unestablished players not to show up and get one on one training like they wouldn't have had before. If you had 90 guys showing up before but only ow have say 30, your chance of getting seen and more direct contact is x2.
     
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I mean, we've vaccinated 140+ million Americans already, so the argument that they're an immediate danger should be put to rest. There could absolutely be long-term issues but I see no evidence of the conspiracy stuff like Bill Gates is trying to kill off half the world.
     
  6. King Felix

    King Felix Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good for the players. They are voluntary anyways, even though they’ve never really actually been voluntary
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    You don't want the Dolphins players practicing and getting better?
     
  8. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    From PFT:

    When players from the Dolphins joined the many teams issuing statements through the NFL Players Association about offseason workout, the statement said only that they “stand in solidarity” with the NFLPA, and not that they would be skipping offseason workouts themselves. So it’s no surprise that when the Dolphins opened their offseason program on Monday, many players were there. According to Adam Beasley of the Miami Herald, many Dolphins players, including established veterans, reported to the team facility.

    It’s unclear exactly how many players were there. The workouts are not open to the media, and the team doesn’t release a list of players in attendance. But suffice to say, many players feel solidarity with the union but also feel that their own best chance of making the roster, and of putting a good team on the field this year, is to work together at the team facility in the offseason.

    ME: Florez seems to have actually changed the culture to what the team needs from my own needs. Great to see the players that actually want to make the team better show. Even vets.
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, we're vaccinating against a virus that has a 99.5+% survival rate, so if the vaccines are having problem at even a small percent, then why is that different? We're saying that everyone needs the vaccine, even though only a tiny fraction of a percent have significant issues from the virus, so why is that different when it comes to the vaccine?

    Does that make sense?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think the govt' know up front that they wouldn't have anywhere near 100% vaccinated. I saw stats a few months ago that they believed they'd need 30-40% vaccinated to "beat the curve" or whatever their term is for that. I saw the other day that we're at 48% nationwide, so according to their math this virus should be under control in the near future. Like I said earlier though, survival rate is not the only thing to consider since folks are having long-term effects.

    Lung capacity is permanently diminished for those who got really sick because it scars the lungs and other organs. I'm not saying anyone should/has to get the vaccine...it's absolutely a personal choice. But I do think there's more to come long-term from COVID once they really have the research years from now.

    Like you said though, there could be dangers from the vaccine itself...so it's a double-edged sword regardless of what research you believe. I can tell you that I feel fine after the two shots, while other family members got sick for a few days or had severe headaches the day after.
     
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  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, I see that somewhere between 1-5% of covid patients require hospitalization. Of that 1-5%, I'm seeing stats that 20% of those people have long term lung problems as a result.

    So, worst case, 95% don't require hospitalization, so 95% of those who contract covid, will not have long term lung problems. So, imo, the fear around these problems is really unnecessary, for the majority of the population.

    Like, I'm not saying that this disease isn't a problem for some people. It is. But, looking at the data we have now, I really don't understand the push for vaccination, much less demand that people get it. If you are in the very tiny high risk group, you should probably get the vaccine.

    Just my opinion, and, I want to say Key,I really appreciate you having these conversations, especially since I know you were more affected by it than I have been. I think by sharing our beliefs, we can find commonality, so I hope no one construes what I'm saying as arguing, as that's not my intent. I also strongly believe in speaking the truth, as you see it. I know these discussions flirt with some topical boundaries, so I truly appreciate the leeway thus far, and I hope that if this conversation continues, that it remains civil and focused on finding agreement, not proving oneself right.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm definitely not trying to preach my beliefs and I completely respect those who are dead-against my viewpoints here. It really is an informed decision that can go either way. These kinds of conversations are important today in society and it's 100% fine we don't agree.

    For me personally, I got the vaccines because I take care of my 86 year old dad. I'm not scared of COVID and I think I've already had it w/ no symptoms a year ago, but I'm terrified that I could pass it along to my father since it would be a death sentence. Plus, my best friend from childhood died from COVID....and he's in WAY BETTER shape than me. So I knew before the trials even started that I'd be lining up as soon as possible. If I had lived alone though or just with my wife, then maybe I wouldn't have taken the vaccine at all...I really don't know because it wasn't a choice I felt that I had.

    To me, age plays a factor. Health and lifestyle play a factor. Households play a factor. There's so many more considerations than just saying someone is for/against vaccines even after we get past the science. At the end of the day though, I think we'll vaccinate around 55-60% of the nation and I feel like that will be "good enough". We'll see!
     
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  13. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    We have roughly 330 million people in the US. The 16.5 million people based on your number going to the hospital might disagree.
     
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    that isn't how it works, and you know it.

    And what are your numbers referring to? I gave several different groups.
     
  15. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I took your number 5% of the population. Pretty easy math. Even at 1%, 3.3 million people in the hospital. 660,000 at your 20% long haulers. It's easy to dismiss it but the numbers are huge.

    Some might say that the people taking the vaccine are the ones taking the risk so others can do nothing, get everyone back to work while others can sit in their houses, all safe and snug and reap the rewards. Seems almost selfish in a way. That's not what I'm saying but I've heard the case made.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Right. So every American is not going to catch covid, at the same time. So extrapolating 1-5%, and saying that millions of Americans will die, is not an accurate way of looking at reality. Like, we have a death rate for the flu...but we don't have that full number of Americans dying from that per year.

    I would agree, people taking the shot ARE guinea pigs. However, that doesn't mean that those not taking it are being selfish. Regardless of outcomes of the vaccine, I'm not intending to take it, ever. I don't see the need, for me, with my age, and my lack of comorbidities. I don't get the flu shot yearly, either.

    TL;DR
    YES, if ALL Americans contracted covid at the same time, so you had 300+ million active cases going on, you could expect to see 3.3 million hospitalizations, and 600,000 in the long haulers. But currently, after almost a year and a half, we're at like 33 million infections. Another thought, how many of those that died would have died from comorbidities? We're now at 3.8 underlying comorbidities per death.
     
  17. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    No one said they would all get it at the same time. Not sure where you got that from. But without the vaccine, the numbers are the numbers.

    Flu didn't kill 550,000 in one year. But this virus did. Typically 34,000 die from flu.

    It's great that you choose not to get the vaccine and be a potential spreader - best case scenario. It's your choice. If you infect someone close to you and they die, that's something you will have to live with. That's a choice too. Cheers my friend.
     
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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Even WITH the vaccine, you're a potential spreader. Again, IF YOU ARE HIGH RISK, by all means, get the vaccine. But this idea that those not getting it are somehow selfish is dangerous, imo.

    And no, covid-19 is not the cause of death of that many Americans. Again, the average death, associated with Covid, has 3.8 underlying comorbidities. And we've had several flu "pandemics" that killed far more than covid. Spanish flu, and a flu that ripped through Russia in the late 1800s. There is research that suggests that that flu is one of the common ones we catch now.

    I can tell you this, NOW when you do a PCR test, they are testing also for influenza A/B. They weren't doing that at all for the past year.
     
  19. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Even if you take out a 20% factor from the current death numbers to account for comorbidities you're looking at roughly 450,000 dead. But that doesn't take into account that they wouldn't have died from the comorbid when they did IF IT WASN'T FOR THE VIRUS. I used to think the same until my coworker went home ill on a Thursday and they found him dead on a Tuesday at his house. From the Vid. Or the marathon runner in perfect health I knew and he was dead in 2 weeks. Dude its not the flu.
     
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  20. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Sorry for your friend. Flip-side of that coin, I'm a healthy mid-30 year old. I did a workout on Monday, got a vaccine on Tuesday. No crazy side effects outside of just being run down and sore, eventually became REALLY sore. Got bloodwork Monday, was in the ER Tuesday getting fluids and treated for Rhabdo.

    100% believe in the vaccine and want people to get it (would do so again), but I also admit that I don't know about all of the side effects and they can be a real thing. My workout was not overly strenuous and it was well within my wheelhouse. Dr. thinks the vaccine may have contributed to dehydration and rhabdo depsite the face that I took it easier than normal and hydrated for 3 days post vaccine. Really, the only thing that changed was the vaccine. Glad my kidneys still work, now just waiting for liver to fall in line.
     
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  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Me too...going into customers homes on a daily basis. If I can do that, with no Covid vaccine for $25 per hour, surely these players can do their job getting paid $25 per minute.
     
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  22. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Ok after reading every post in this thread, here’s the one and only Covid post I’m going to write.

    For those who are hunters, you’re going to understand this right away. And on that note...what’s one of the reasons we allow hunting in this country? Sure, there’s the savage sport of blowing Bambi’s head off with a 7mag. There’s the hunting for food. Venison is delicious, as is bear. Boar and rabbit has too much of a gamey taste for me, but what’s one of the overlooked benefits of hunting? Controlling the wildlife population. Keeping the food chain in equilibrium.

    Too many predators and not enough prey? Disease runs rampant. Too many prey and not enough predators? Same thing, the abundance of wildlife now have to compete for the same amount of food. Hunting keeps that balance. Now, why the hunting analysis?

    Humans are at the top of the food chain. We have become the dominant species on the planet. We have no natural predators. We have advanced our technologies in standards of living to medicine and we continue to grow...SWELL in population. When I was a kid, the global population was around 2 billion people. Now at 55, the world’s population is close to 4 times that. No one is “hunting us” and as a result, disease is doing to us what it does to the wildlife population unchecked.

    The plague, tuberculosis, influenza, small pox, polio, HIV and now the dreaded Covid-19. We’re always going to be a species plagued with disease since human population isn’t kept in check. But on that same token, the hard numbers...the percentages and ratios of death from COVID-19 compared to the many precious global pandemics pale in comparison.

    Bottom line? Get on with your life. Whether you’re a grocery clerk making proverbial peanuts or a professional athlete making millions, go to work, so your job and quit your griping because I can promise you this, after Covid, the next disease to hit is right around the corner.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I finally rejoined a gym today and seriously looking forward to getting back at it. That's crazy you went through that though! Other than my arm being mega-sore for a few days, I didn't have any adverse effects to either shot. In fact, the only folks I know that got really sick were the ones who recently had COVID.

    Maybe that's what happened in your case too- it's the body launching all-out war against a non-live version on the virus...that's essentially what happens with people who have food allergies too. It's not the peanut that made their throat swell almost completely shut, it's the body trying to defend against the harmless peanut because it's flagged just like known viruses are. For whatever reason, some people's bodies will take the "nuclear option" and it could kill them in the process...its scary stuff.
     
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  24. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Glad you're back at it! Ramp up slow:) We never really stopped but we of course had to change things. Our gym is a small boutique gym, so when things shut down for 3 months we kept paying our memberships and did online workouts. When we got back to it we were in small classes, distanced, and with masks. When it shut down again we went to an old gym we had gone to that offered after hours access.

    Suffice to say, my fitness level, while good, isn't what it was which might have contributed. I don't think it was due to previously having COVID. I had an antibody test 2 months ago and it came back clear, so it would have been a small window to get infected. Also I have the lungs of a guppy so if I had it I've assumed I'd know, but it could be what happened. I think it was just a combination of fitness level, and body reacting poorly to the initial shot. My second one went fine and I was sure to avoid the gym for a few days before and after.
     
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  25. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    OUCH!!!! from PFT:

    The Broncos privately were pleased that tackle Ja'Wuan James opted out in 2020, because it meant that they avoided his $9.85 million guaranteed salary. Although no team is pleased when a player is injured, the Broncos privately are pleased that James’ season-ending injury happened away from the team facility, because it allows them to again avoid the $9.85 million in guaranteed pay that tolled from 2020 to 2021.

    That’s what most likely will happen. The labor deal gives teams the ability to not pay players who suffer injuries away from the facility. Given the lingering consternation between the league and the union over voluntary offseason workouts, teams will be more inclined than ever to not volunteer to pay a player who chooses not to volunteer to work out at team headquarters and then suffers an injury.

    A separate problem for James flows from the very real possibility that the injury away from the facility voids the guarantee for good, allowing the Broncos to eventually cut James and to avoid forever the $9.85 million guaranteed salary. Under the contract he signed in 2019, James also has $5 million in future salary guaranteed for injury only. That guarantee also potentially will void, due to the off-site injury.

    Then comes the kicker, if the Broncos really want to play hardball with James. Given the language of the CBA and the standard player contract, they can recover the portion of his signing bonus applicable to the 2021 season. That’s $3 million that the Broncos could ask James to repay, based on a $12 million signing bonus spread over four total years.

    The question of whether a player will work out on his own or at the team facility should be resolved on a case-by-case basis. The reality is that, when it comes to the dramatic financial differences between getting injured at work and getting injured away from work, most players would best be protected by always working out at the team facility.
     
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  26. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    This sort of injury pay issue is a nonsense for the league. The cap is important, but if a guy suffers an injury that sees him removed from the active roster his pay should be removed as a cap consideration. It would give a bit room to a team to find a replacement and stay more competitive.
     
  27. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I think that's fair. It would allow for another player to some in for at least one year. Once the injured player returns, the cap hit starts again. But the NFLPA isn't do its members any favors by telling them not to work out at the facility.
     
  28. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    If the Broncos dont pay JaWuan, the NFLPA will get involved. Jawuan James will get that settled somehow someway whether the Broncos honor it or if he sues his own union.

    but.... with that aside... Broncos fans have called the free agent signing of Jawuan James as the worst signing in Broncos history. 51 million for 53 total snaps
     
  29. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    The Broncos are within their rights to not pay James this year. Pretty much in the contract. The question to me is the NFLPA going to pay for James following their "suggestion". Talk about an all-time backfire.
     
  30. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Better them then us. I remember people complaining that we let him go. Not that the same thing would have happened but that's a chunk of change.
     
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