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Calling it early Miami 3rd place in AFC east miss playoffs

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    And did you notice where you said it wasn't the scheme, the coaching or Tannehill's surroundings? This is the exact same thing seven years later- you're jumping to conclusions based on a very limited look in a depleted offense.
     
  2. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Waaaaay too early to claim that, you got to be fair with Tua and give him this season to show what he's got.
     
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  3. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    My point was that after their first season, Herbert was clearly better. That can’t be argued.

    Now you can argue the trajectory and who will have a better career. But one set rookie records for a QB and was the offensive rookie of the year. The other was benched because he couldn’t move the offense like his back up could.

    I’m not intending to diss on Tua but rather to drive home the point that Herbert was a better player last season.
     
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  4. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua is undefeated versus Herbert.
     
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  5. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    The only people that would question that are the typical homer fans.
    Now to be fair 1 season does not make a career so Herbert could fall back and Tua could take a step forward.So let's hope that's the case.
    Get him the weapons and it's sink or swim time!
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And it's NOT simply his rookie season. Some of us watched him all throughout college.
     
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  7. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Clearly outplayed him that game too.
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Hey, he looked great in college with those 10-second pockets and receivers instantly pulling away from defenders. That's where my doubt came in at- he wasn't running for his life like Lawrence was at times, or dancing in the pocket unfazed while under insane pressure like Burrow. There aren't many negatives on his college film at all...that's the main benefit of the Alabama system though. That 2019 team could probably stand toe to toe with a few of the weaker NFL franchises.
     
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  9. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I think this all depends on Tua's second season and how he responds. The Buffalo game really left an awful taste in my mouth. It's similar to having a rotting tooth or a periodontal pocket that is in dire need of fixing. In my opinion, he gets one season to get this right. Actually...He gets 8 games and after that, if he still sucks or hasn't improved, then it'll be time to go back to the drawing board. The Tua detractors can boast about how right they were, or the guys that stuck by him can do the same from their end. I personally am not going to get involved in any of that. IF this team takes a step back next season it'll be because Tua sucks...plain and simple.
    I don't see too many excuses for him going into next season. My biggest fear is that this turns into another ongoing Ryan Tannehill debate that lasts another six years. Some of us can't afford that kind of time. He either has it or he doesn't and I think we'll all collectively without a question know by about 8 games into next season. We have a good defense, by all accounts he's going to have a solid offensive line protecting him. Coach Flores makes the running game work, and we have capable receivers with Parker, Fuller, Bowden, Gesicki, and Williams.
    I think the goal of this team should be to win games and become a regular in the playoff picture. If Tua can't deliver that, then he'll need to go. I'll go even further and say that I like our chances with Jacoby Brissett IF by some unfortunate reason...Tua fails. Other than that, I don't see us taking a step backwards. Coach is going to have this team prepared on a weekly basis and we are going to fight and be in every game we play. It's up to the quarterback to take us the rest of the way. I'm a firm believer that you won't win **** in this league unless you have a historically awesome defense...OR....A franchise quarterback. There's no in between. You could mention the New York Giants during the Eli Manning era and that's about it, and even then....Manning hit a stride where he was playing at an elite level when they won their Super Bowls. He also got extremely lucky. David Tyree is the reason we are still the only undefeated franchise in sports.
     
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  10. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, you're the one missing the point. A rookie QB having too many INTs doesn't mean that much. A rookie QB not winning a lot of games doesn't mean that much. It's the physical and mental ability the rookie QB shows that promise what he can do in the future that are meaningful.
     
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  11. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Brees as a ceiling IS horrible if you don't have the right tools and the right coaching around him. Because Brees, HOF QB that he is, only took NO to one SB. All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't get him to more than one SB, and that one happened to be when NO had an incredible defense. Now, hey, if Tua can take the Fins to one SB and win it, that's awesome. It's more than we've had in the last almost 50 years. But even Brees had to mature for eight years before he made that SB and no team is going to give a QB that long anymore. Even Brees was on his second team when he did it. Tua has a limited shelf life with the Dolphins. That's just the way it is in today's NFL. 8 years from now, he's either going to be a top-tier QB or he's going to be on another team.
     
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  12. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    If Tua doesn't succeed here for whatever reason, he won't be here in 7 years.
     
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  13. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    LOL, who made you the quarterback whisper? Did you know that after Tua fumbled in his first start (and second play of the game), the kid never fumbled again the rest of the season? Yeah, he's weak alright.

    After seeing your take on Tannehill in his rookie, I'm not buying what your selling, your MO is to crap on rookies.
     
  14. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    By the same logic a QB with Rodgers ceiling is also horrible because he has been to just 1.

    So ceiling of Brady or bust I guess
     
  15. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Drew Brees first three years, 29 TDs, 31 Ints, 59% comp rate with questions about his arm strength and toughness, some here would have tried running him out of town too.
     
  16. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I did, because all of this is, by definition, my opinion. You can feel free to disagree or ignore it, but you don't get to tell me I don't have a right to have it.
     
  17. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Rodgers is a great QB. But if he were drafted as a rookie in 2020, he wouldn't take his first team to the SB because no one gets that kind of patience anymore. He'd be on his second team before he even made the playoffs.
     
  18. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    He still hasn't been to the SB in the past 10 years so doesn't mean his ceiling the past 10 years is horrible?
     
  19. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I've done no such thing nor would I even entertain the notion of telling anyone here they don't have a right to their opinion, but lets be fair, you've been most vocal about writing off Tua after his rookie year, you should expect heavy push back.
     
  20. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    His ceiling has been established. He's made the SB and won it five years after being drafted. He hasn't reached that level again in the last 10, but time and the salary cap takes its toll. And yes, since he's 37 years old, I think his ceiling may be just one SB win. As opposed to someone like Mahomes, who definitely has multiple SB wins in him and won his first in his second season as a starter.
     
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  21. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Oh, that's a downright lie. We've had several people say he sucks and is going to be a bust and one guy even criticized him for being so Christian. I have been pretty even-handed about it. I am pessimistic about him as a leader for this team, yes. I have also said he can be a competent, workable QB. Just not a top-tier QB. I think that's what upsets you and makes you consider me as having "written him off," the fact I'm NOT being unreasonable.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What I mean Key, is that even in Alabama, Tua wasn't the fire of that offense. On an all-star team, Tua didn't put up gaudy numbers, and got benched for a freshman. So, I was buy no means surprised that he looked hesitant and refused to throw deep in the NFL. I think Tua will get better, I think he'll have a quality career.

    I just don't see an elite QB that we needed to draft at #5 overall.

    I DO hope that Tua proves me wrong. I would love LOVE for someone to pull my posts about Tua up a year from now, and make me eat crow.
     
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  23. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    When I say "most vocal" I just mean loud, not the loudest, I have no clue who he is the loudest and I'm not sure I want too.

    We'll just agree to disagree, we're beating a dead horse.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything you said. But regardless of my feelings pre-draft, Tua's my quarterback and I'll continue to root for him.

    Besides, I don't have the energy to do the Tannehill thing all over again and a new "We Want Matt Moore!" thread just doesn't feel right, LOL. This time around I'm just going to root for our starting QB until it becomes impossible...hopefully we don't have to go down the road. Tua is working super hard and he's a very likable kid, so at least he makes it easy to be a fan. Really hoping he changes some doubters minds this coming season.
     
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  25. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    I often shske my head that Omar, Armando and Hyde are the worst beat writers in North America because they openly root for the team to fail and i wonder how they are still employed and then i look at the fanbase of the youngest roster in the nfl, a front office and coach with a plan, a bevy of draft and cap resources for years to come and i see hoe miserable they are... and it makes sense. Some of you want to be right more than you want to enjoy them being good, same as our esteemed writers.
     
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  26. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    If the team does well, I'm very happy. I was happy with the 10 win season. That doesn't mean I automatically think every move the front office makes is genius.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I know. People are like, "Miami only beat the bad teams last year and lost to the good teams."

    That is exactly what I wanted last year. They were pretty much in every game but the last one. KC would have taken a few bounces at the end, but there was a chance.

    they need to develop a lot of players on the roster, if they are successful, next season and the season after next are going to be fun.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    People just skim over how we had the youngest team in the league with no training camp or pre-season....that's a massive factor and it would have been a great excuse to go 3-13 last season. Ten wins based on what we started out with is nothing short of a miracle.
     
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  29. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Completely disagree with you about Hyde.Omar is an idiot and I don't subscribe to Hearld for the other guy but Hyde calls it like it is.This team has sucked for 20 years give or take a year or two.He wants to cover a winning team just like we would like to cheer for one.Losing decade after decade makes u a non believer until proven otherwise!
     
  30. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Fair, im just mad at him for ripping the move from 3 to 6 and “only” coming away with a first and third for it when its clear the front office believes in Tua and they are comfortable with any of Sewell, Smith, Chase or Pitts, so they can get a guy they want and got additional premium assets. I don’t understand killing that move.
     
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  31. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Yea I read that and yes I don't agree with him there.He needs to look at like we got a 1st and 3rd and still getting the player we want.
     
  32. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Because that #3 pick had disgustingly high value. There had to be a reason they pulled the trade early like this...like maybe having some indications they were going to get jumped by a team working with the Jets or some such. The compensation for the move from 3 to 12 was mediocre...the cost from 12 to 6 was decent. They traded a franchise QB pick for a possible best at another position pick (or 3rd best WR pick even)...and didn't get enough for it, IMO. At a MINIMUM they should've gotten the Niners' 2021 2nd round pick out of that. Not mad about it, just would've liked to have seen better comp.

    Totally glad they traded out of it though. Shows a better approach than the past (and trading UP for the elite, generational, uniquely talented Dion Jordan).
     
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  33. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I agree that the return really feels disappointing. I've spent months dreaming about what we could get out of it, and a 2022 3rd rounder and a 2023 1st rounder, combined with moving down from the 4th to the 5th round ourselves just doesn't seem like much. But if they come out of it with Pitts or Sewell at #6, then we got our man and still made something else in the process.

    That being said, kudos to Geier for actually trading down. I badly wanted them to do so in 2005 and 2008, and they stood pat, seemingly not being able to make a deal. And while I wanted Grier to trade down last year too, he's now done so two out of the three times he's had a top ten pick, so its a good history. I'm hoping we move down from #18 to pick up more spots in the first four rounds unless there's a great value there to be had.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    One thing I think we all need to realize is that this year is very weird. The cap went down significantly from last year to this year plus there is no Chase Young type obvious best none quarterback players in this draft.

    I dreamed of big but it was a pretty good hold. Especially 3 to 12, that was pretty big in NFL standards. The 12 to 6 was the lower value of the two.
     
  35. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Its not an unrealistic prediction considering the Bills will remain dominant.. and the patriots will be better.. the jets are gonna be rebuilding .. lets just hope whoever they draft at qb becomes a bust. if we can solve our running back problem with the 18th pick (najee harris) .. then id feel safe abiut our chances..
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Oh for sure. I don't want to come across like I'm anti-Tua. I WANT him to be a superstar.
     
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  37. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    And I sure as hell don't want Jacoby Brisset as our starting QB.
     
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