1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Deshaun Watson

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rick 1966, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    I think if Houston tries to get this outrageous four first-round picks some people are talking about that they're simply going to wind up not being able to trade him. The Rams overpaid and I think some of that had to do with them not having a first-round pick this year.
     
  2. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    I'm not sure another team in league history has mortgaged the future as hard as the Rams have. They've made like 1 first round pick in the last 6 years or something.

    As for Houston, I doubt they want to trade Watson at all. Who would? The impetus for the trade seems to entirely be his, not a mutual thing. Houston I think is trying to use the media to set prices so high as to be unobtainable, so they can come back to Watson and be like "not happening, you showing up or what?" Or maybe they really do get lucky and have a team pay through the nose.
     
    The G Man likes this.
  3. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    No

    If the trade is between Miami and Houston they will get Tua and that will be the QB of their future.
     
    resnor likes this.
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Maybe, but only if they love Tua. If they don't then that #2 pick is hugely important, it will mean they can have anyone they do love.
     
  5. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    If the Texans are not willing to give us the equivalent of a first round pick for Tua then there is no way to make the trade work... IMHO
     
    Pauly likes this.
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    I don't follow you. We're talking about a trade for Deshaun Watson, right? If the Texans do like Tua, then that trade would be based upon us getting Watson, and so it'll be us trading away first round picks to them, not the other way around



    .
     
  7. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    We have a first round QB.... If the Texans do not like Tua then there is little chance we can make a deal... We cannot give up say three first round picks and have Tua on the bench.

    A three team deal complicates it even more and makes it less realistic a trade happens.

    Either the Texans like Tua and are willing to take him in the trade for Watson or the deal cannot happen

    IMHO
     
  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    I don't think I agree. If the Texans will agree to a deal with the Dolphins for Watson and without Tua then I think you definitely do it. Allow Tua to continue to develop and if he works out you can trade either him or Watson. If he doesn't then that's frustrating but you've got your QB in Watson. Whatever other pick(s) you gave up are worth it for that franchise QB, right? And again, in this league, there's always someone looking for a QB.
     
  9. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    People forget No trade clause!
    A team can offer 4 1s and Watson says **** off I'm not playing there.
    You think Watson wants to go to a **** team that just gave up 4 number 1s?
    4-12 for rest of his career.
    He isn't stupid people.
    I was listening to Chris Simms who says he has a friend that knows Watson and he said Watson will definitely sit out year if he is not traded to the team he prefers.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  10. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    Edit.
     
  11. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    Why can he go into camp and attend. And just do walk throughs. Trying but not trying. Then meet with the media after every practice and complain about not wanting to be there anymore. You can't have that disruption go on for very long before they just have to move him. People keep saying he has no leverage but he does. A malcontent with a new coach and new front office isn't they way they want to start. That and the no trade clause it seems to me he has all the leverage.
     
  12. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    Galant

    We do not have the resources to have Tua sit on the bench and be able to pay a king's ransom for Watson. That is why I clearly stated that trading for Watson means we see him as better than Tua... The Texans will need a QB and Tua solves that part of their problem for them. They suddenly solve all of their salary cap issues by trading Watt and Watson away... Tua makes peanuts for the next 4 years. They would have 2 first round and 2 second-round picks to build up the roster around Tua... So they could be competitive without breaking the bank... Trading Watt likely gets them a third round pick... That would be Adding two firsts, two seconds, and two thirds to their draft over the course of the next 2 years.

    If we keep Tua we would likely have to trade the Texans three firsts and a pair of seconds... and then we would not have any picks to upgrade the wide receiver or running back position... Our cap space would also be somewhat limited as Watson makes close to 40 million dollars a year.

    Someone else posted that Watson does have the no-trade clause... But unless the list of cities he will not go to is small his leverage to get traded is limited... You cannot ask for a trade and then every time your team works out a trade refuse to go to the new team. Sure he can sit out... The problem is that the Texans hold his rights for the next 4 years.
     
  13. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...1-season/RK=2/RS=Z_82PSyCu2Pybrx5.SoQcG2FLQo-
     
  14. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
  15. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    A huge part of the Rams trade was that the Lions took the bad contract of Goff. So in that sense they did not overpay by much. Goff was untradeable with his struggles and terrible contract.
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  16. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,480
    5,637
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    Exactly.
     
  17. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Seeing more and more talk about CB Igbinoghene.

    Reminds me of what Kyle Crabbs said about Howard included in a trade for Watson.


     
    Etrius24 likes this.
  18. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    Iggy was the youngest player in the NFL last year... I am willing to be patient with him. Trust Flores and his coaching and development ability. Iggy panning out and becoming a top corner cements this franchise so we have options when it comes to Howard and Jones after the 2022 season.
     
  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Definitely. My point was more that there were rumours that Howard wasn't/isn't 100% happy in Miami and that Miami might like to Iggy to replace him. He would make a valuable trade asset. Now, shortly after those rumours, we're seeing chatter increase about how good Iggy was. Could it be playing the ground for a move away from Howard and towards Iggy, following a trade for Watson?
     
    Etrius24 likes this.
  20. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    Galant

    Howard was our MVP last year... Jones played like warmed up dog food out there. Until Iggy shows that he can be a primary corner instead of the nickel... I think they pay Howard a couple more million per year to make him happy.

    Even if another team was willing to give us two first-round picks for Howard how could we afford to do it... Jones looked bad... Needham took a step back.. and Iggy was a green rookie needing experience.

    I in no way want the dolphins to trade Iggy either... too much talent. He still has tremendous potential.

    I think this is nothing other than off-season hot stove banter.
     
  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,319
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Look guys, everyone needs to just accept the fact the Dolphins are NOT getting Watson. The trade would be too expensive in future draft picks and it’s not in the model that Flores and Grier are building this team.

    The Dolphins are building a YOUNG team via the draft that’s going to be around for years to come. They aren’t going to ransom the future of the team on one player. This rebuild the Dolphins have undertaken is a blueprint right out of the Patriots/Belichick playbook
     
    ripper1961, M1NDCRlME and Puka-head like this.
  22. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY

    Why? You have no idea what's going to happen any more than the rest of us. Watson may very well stay where he is and not go anywhere, but if he is traded, Miami is one of the places that makes the most sense.
     
    resnor likes this.
  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,319
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    He’s not coming to Miami. Anyone who think he is or hoping he will is hanging onto a pipe dream. It’s NOT going to happen.
     
  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    Maybe, maybe not. You certainly don't know.
     
    DOLFANMIKE and resnor like this.
  25. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    What does that crystal ball of yours say about the Superbowl? LoL
     
    Etrius24 likes this.
  26. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    Hell with the Superbowl, I want tomorrow's lottery numbers!
     
    resnor, Etrius24 and Finatik like this.
  27. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    679
    788
    93
    Nov 8, 2017
    Ooh, and me :smile:
     
  28. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    If anyone wins the 700 million dollar jackpot I expect them to share with the rest of us... LOL... I would.
     
    resnor likes this.
  29. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

    1,325
    1,380
    113
    Jan 2, 2016
    I don't think that this is true at all. We can make the deal, and then trade Tua separately. I was a Herbert guy, and I think we can get more than a first for Tua. Draft day is a wild ride. There are winners and there are losers. Maybe you get the guy you want, maybe you don't. I think that multiple teams would be more than happy trading for Tua even if it cost a little extra.

    If we can't trade Tua for fair value, I would keep him. QBs get hurt and don't live up to expectations. Brady could retire after next year. I think biding our time would be fruitful.

    I think Watson will cost a lot, but I also think you might get more than you expect for Tua.
     
  30. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    Okay

    Here is the flaw in your logic... I am not trying to tear you apart I promise.

    But if we trade for Watson and still have Tua

    What that says is that we do not believe in Tua....

    That means we trade him from a position of weakness instead of a position of strength

    When we try to trade him we will get lowballed ... Other teams will say sh*t to us like: well if you thought he was great you would not have replaced him after one season.

    And they would have a point.

    Trading for Watson and Keeping Tua means we are not getting more than a second-round pick for Tua.


    If you want a specific example of my thought process, look to Arizona.

    They drafted Rosen then the next year they drafted Murray... Then they tried to trade Rosen away... Dealing from a position of weakness... They took a second-round pick for Rosen.

    I know that half a dozen teams will come calling to trade for Tua if we get Watson... But we will have severely weakened our position in dealing him. It would be a buyer's market for sure. ( And every GM that called would know it. )
     
    resnor likes this.
  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    The Arizona example is a bad one. Rosen and Tua are not comparable. Rosen couldn't even manage a SINGLE game at league average level statistically, greatly diminishing his value. Here's one report pre-trade about what Rosen might fetch. GM's/scouts were saying he'd be worth anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th:
    https://www.nfl.com/news/josh-rosen...lue-is-tyreek-hill-a-100m-wr-0ap3000001021564

    In other words, Arizona may have gotten the higher end of Rosen's trade value from the Dolphins. You could even argue we overpaid a bit. Either way, I see no reason why Tua couldn't be traded for a 1st (e.g., a mid-1st) even after acquiring Watson. There are many around the league who thought Tua did well his rookie year.
     
    Etrius24 likes this.
  32. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    682
    685
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    Brad, I agree Tua was better in year one... The point was that when you abandon the QB you just drafted by getting someone else you weaken your position to then to trade that QB and represent him as something amazing. Your actions show your hand and you are then dealing from a position of weakness.
     
    The_Dark_Knight likes this.
  33. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    The solution to that would be a three-team trade. I mentioned it in another thread, but Bill Barnwell of ESPN put together scenarios for potential suitors, and the one for us involved a trade with Houston and the Bears that essentially had the Bears sending Houston their first round pick, Bears get Tua and we get Watson. There were, of course, multiple other picks and such, mostly going to Houston.

    I also would note two major potential factors - firstly is what seems to be an extreme QB shortage among playoff ready teams at this moment. Second is that the cap got slashed hard, so teams may be willing to pony up for a cheap QB like Tua rather than blowing a big chunk of cap trading for a Derek Carr or taking a chance on Dak Prescott's leg.
     
  34. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,775
    3,246
    113
    Nov 18, 2017
    Same message sent to him on draft day considering they tried pretty hard to move up to the 1st pick...Tua was essentially plan B behind Burrow.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  35. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,775
    3,246
    113
    Nov 18, 2017
    I would try desperately to hang on to the #3 pick ... So my offer : 18, 36, 2022 1st, 2022 2nd, Tua and Wilkins.
     
  36. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Who do you want at 3 so much? Or are you hoping to recoup some picks by trading back?
     
  37. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,775
    3,246
    113
    Nov 18, 2017
    Sewell. But I couldn’t get all that mad at a trade back especially in a scenario where we’ve just given up a bunch of picks for Watson.
     
  38. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,245
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    I would throw in #3 pick and try to hold onto the 2022 1st.
     
  39. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

    1,325
    1,380
    113
    Jan 2, 2016
    I think that you are completely misreading the situation. I don't think our leverage would change at all. As you said, a half a dozen teams would call us. That is indicative of a market for his services. We would be in trouble if there was a single team on the phone with us. They could give us a take it or leave it offer that we could begrudging be forced to take.

    Secondly, I do not think that trading for Watson says anything about our belief in Tua. Make the trade, and say nice things about Tua. I would use the quote, "Tua is going to be a great QB, but getting Watson was a once in a lifetime opportunity." I don't think that it would take any convincing that Watson is a generational talent. I'd be willing to bet that over half of the league will inquire about Watson, and theoretically, if they could swing a deal, you might be surprised who could get replaced.

    Thirdly, we are dealing from strength. I would not take a lowball offer. If someone offered a 2nd, Tua would remain on the roster. Maybe we go into the season. I assure you, there will be teams realizing that they got the wrong guy at the helm. It may take time (I don't think it will), but we can get value.
     
    Drizzy likes this.
  40. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

    4,142
    2,339
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Why would you prefer to keep the 2022 #32 pick when you can keep the 2021 #3 and either get a blue chip player or trade down to get more picks?
     

Share This Page