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Dolphins @ Broncos - Game Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying it's normal to bench a QB with 8 minutes remailing and expect their backup to score 10 points? If your answer is no, then it's an unfair expectation for Fitz to do it when Tua couldn't move the ball all day long. My point (actually two points) were-

    1) Fitz had more passing yards in a partial quarter than Tua had all day long.

    2) If Fitz played the whole 2nd half or the entire game, we probably would have won by 20+.

    It stinks Fitz threw that last pass and I absolutely hold him accountable for that, but you're acting like QB's come off the bench all the time to rally struggling teams (that shouldn't be struggling) in the 4th quarter. Likewise, I didn't think Tua played much better/worse than he's played all season...it was just a different game without defensive/special teams scores and he had to produce more today to get the win.

    Tua isn't 100% ready and that's perfectly fine...the sky is not falling in Miami.
     
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  2. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, I am definitely trying to steer clear of making assumptions. That isn't my intention. It's just that i've seen this so many freakin times in sports that it gets to be an irritant. We went through this with Tannehill for six years! I'm a 76ers fans for the NBA and right now there is an even divide among fans over Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid (if you watch basketball you know who they are). A lot of people get clouded by the fact that they want to be right more than they want their team to succeed. So it becomes a pissing match. Said player has bad game, but team still wins and it's "Well we would have won by 40 points instead of 30 if he would have played better." Obviously this is sometimes a week to week thing and people can go all Jeckyl and Hyde once they get a taste of winning and then all of a sudden take a loss. This game was ugly all around and even if we would have won, it still would have been ugly. Truth is, this felt like a loss from the moment we stepped on the field. We've all seen this team do this many many times when momentum is clearly in our favor and we somehow someway **** the bed anyway! It can bring out the worst in fans because nobody likes to lose when they should have clearly won. It's funny how we all expected losses against the 49ers and Rams, but a loss to the Broncos is a slap in the face. That's clearly going to come down hard on the players who have the let downs and today, it was most certainly our rookie QB who played like crap rolled up in a cigar. In short, I hope you're wrong about the whole Herbert over Tua thing. Not because I want to be right, but because that was the choice "WE" made as a team. All in all I think Flores has this handled and we'll all know for sure by seasons end if Tua can or can't hack it.
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    No. There are two things here.
    I wasn't expecting Fitz to win this game. That would be unfair. My point is to look at exactly what Fitz did do. He was able to drive down the field, but he did it with risky plays and wasn't able to score any points. Instead, he threw a pick. I don't hold him responsible for losing. I didn't expect him to win.

    However, I don't think it's a slam dunk that had he been playing we would have won. That's just speculation. At that point in the game Denver were playing more conservative D. No-one knows quite what would have happened.
    This game isn't the point of my posts here. The point is that a high-pressure scenario comes sooner or later, and when they come Fitz throws picks. Essentially, my point is that this small sample of Fitz is a microcosm of what the Phins would be with him at QB. High-energy, big play, but flawed. We won't be successful with Fitz. That's all that matters. It's Tua or it's someone else but it's not Fitz.
     
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  4. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    20+? Come on.

    Miami got dominated in every facet today. It was bound to happen at some point.

    Take the L and move on the the winless Jets. If they lose that game, which won't be an easy game whatsoever then we can panic.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Please, just stop...that is such a ridiculous hot take! It's hard to win in professional sports and EVERY TEAM eventually loses. Sometimes it's ugly....and it means absolutely nothing. We played one game this week and we lost, so the focus right now is on next Sunday, just like it always is.

    The problem here is not the Miami Dolphins, it's the fans expecting perfection no matter what and then throwing tantrums when the slightest thing goes wrong. One team is the NFL champion each season while 31 are not- and every year there's millions of combined fans from 31 organizations saying the exact same thing you are now. But it's total crap because the expectations are completely off.

    Tua was bound to throw his first interception eventually and he was also destined to lose an NFL game. Nobody should be shocked by these things since it's happened to every QB who's ever played the game. Great QB's, lousy QB's, it doesn't matter....they all have bad days and it doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things.
     
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  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Fitz had two drives and we were knocking on the red zone in both...that's without meaningful reps for a month. Tua led us to 6 punts? 7? I'm not trying to knock Tua here but Fitz knows this offense and maximizes it. If Fitz had the entire game then yes, I think we would have won by 20+.
     
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  7. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    You're taking one little thing that wrote out of an entire paragraph and using it against me. That's kind of...ridiculous. I think you need the chill. Nobody is throwing a tantrum. I think you really need to go back and re read some of my stuff because we're kind of in agreement here, yet you are still coming at me hard because you were triggered by a single sentence. Seriously dude...Take a deep breath and go back and read my posts in regards to this game. People are head hunting for Tua while others are crying for Fitzpatrick. I'm one of the ones on here that is chalking it up to a bad week. Again...In my previous posts I lent plenty of support to our team. I even used Brady and A Rodgers as examples of recent blunders that were rather puzzling. I'm well aware that these things happen in sports so please...Go attack someone else that is not in agreement with you. Misunderstand things much? Really, I don't know if you're drunk or just didn't read everything I put down. I'm not going to go over it again. Have a nice night.
     
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  8. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I guess it's pretty simple to come to an understanding.

    If you liked Tua as a prospect it's easy to say it's a bad week. If you didnt it's easy to say this is what you expected. If you were unsure you're still unsure.

    It's the same result for the week just seen a different way in the overall picture.
     
  9. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    We saw what Fitz was and always has been today, a flash in the pan who has wow throws and equally horrendous throws.

    That's not sustainable over 16 games. Enough already.
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Again, I'm looking at this realistically- he drove us almost 90 yards in the final few minutes on a drive that started at the 1....after he drove the field for the FG. That alone is unfair coming off the bench, but he almost pulled it off anyway. I have trouble believing that Fitz wouldn't have found the end zone once on our many 3 and outs for the rest of the afternoon.

    Others say we lost in all facets but honestly, we gave up 20 points. That's typical for this team and the difference today was TD's in other aspects of the game and almost zero production on offense. This is not a game we should have lost by any means- Tua just had a rough afternoon.
     
  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    How many wow throws did Tua have today? That's the part you're missing here....Fitz would have had a few and it would have led to points. Yes, he likely would have had a pick or two as well but the offense would have moved the chains like we did in the 4th. I'm not sure how you can't see that unless you simply refuse to.
     
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  12. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day I'll take driving the ball and throwing a pick in the endzone as a result over a 3 and out. You at least keep the defense fresh which noone is talking about and probably why their run game gashed us in the second half.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In essence, your entire post was that "your teams" do this to you constantly...they play great then let you down at some point. That's every team though in every professional sports league- all teams lose eventually. My only point is that the Dolphins did not do that to you....you did it to yourself with unrealistic expectations.

    We're all bummed out we lost, but your post made it sound like the entire franchise is doomed for the next decade. It was one loss by a young team that's still growing.
     
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  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Why don't you like the messaging there Brandon? Tua isn't the only starting quarterback that has ever been benched during a game because he was playing so badly. Happens quite a bit.
     
  15. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the quarterback who throws the same amount of TD's as interceptions always does well in this league.

    You sound ridiculous.
     
  16. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    This is all speculation! I'm not sure how you can't see that unless you simply refuse to. We DON'T KNOW what Fitzpatrick would have looked like today because he didn't play until late in the fourth quarter! You can speculate all you want, it doesn't mean that's how things would have went down!
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think he means that it should be an open competition next week in practice...make Tua earn the starting job (and the respect of the team). It's not right to just hand him the start after a bad day.
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    My speculation is that the QB who got two drives and marched down the field both times would have done better than Tua did. Your speculation is that the franchise is doomed because Tua lost a game.

    Should we put it to a vote which speculation is more realistic?
     
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  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I agree Fitz showed today he was more likely to have helped us win THIS game, but Fitz would also have lost the Arizona game so it's not like it's clear Fitz is better for maximizing win%.

    Remember Fitz's history: Fitz has started 6 or more games in a season 12 times in his career, and only ONCE did he lead his team to more wins than losses. No, I think it's more likely we win more games the rest of the year with Tua, who despite today has a higher ceiling than Fitz and is likely to improve over time.
     
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  20. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Thank you
     
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  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I believe Tua has already earned the respect of the team and earned the starting position, otherwise Flores would have never named him starting quarterback. That's just my opinion.

    Tua got his butt kicked today. The entire TEAM got their butts kicked today. I remember a game back in the 90's when Andy Reid benched Donovan McNabb. That benching resulted in a MASSIVE pissing contest on the sideline. McNabb was playing like CRAP and the head coach made a coaching decision to pull McNabb. But there wasn't a competition for the following game to see who the starting quarterback was going to be. It was McNabb and the Eagles contnued to kick butt the remainder of the year all the way to the NFC Championship.

    The point being, just because you bench your starter during a game because he's playing like crap doesn't mean he loses his job. Now if Tagovailoa's performance remains subpar the remainder of the season, then you can actually take a look at demoting him, much like Flores did last season with Rosen.
     
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Were we talking about always...or just today? And Fitz does not have the same amount of TD's as picks, so you literally made that entire statement up and then said I'm the ridiculous one.

    LOL, well played sir!
     
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  23. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Nope, that's not my take at all! You sound absolutely ridiculous! The sky certainly is not falling because of one loss. We have the Jets next week, Tua will come back strong. That is my belief. You may possibly be getting me mixed up with another poster on here? Please point out where I said that the franchise was doomed because Tua lost a game. Does anyone else here... care to jump in and help me out? Seriously dude, you sound a little off with this accusation. I strongly urge you to go back and re read my posts. I only jumped into this once people started trashing Tua. Seriously, you're very confusing. I think you're overreacting big time with your accusation! You sound like a menopausal middle aged mother right now lol. Take your speculations and go on somewhere with that nonsense. :lol::lol::lol:
     
  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Guy you said you would take a TD drive for the inevitable 2 picks he will throw.

    Do you not read or think out your posts?
     
  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't have to re-read your posts....because I responded directly to it the first time. Maybe you should re-read it and see exactly how you sound. Or did you not compare the loss today to six years with Tannehill?

     
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  26. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    That was in reference to Tua you goof! OMG! Not once do I mention the franchise being doomed over a loss. That is more in regards towards the whole agenda thing that people run off of. For example, a person doesn't like a draft pick, so it becomes their personal obsession to let everyone know about it. That's what I was talking about. We went through THAT with Tannehill for six years.
    I'm not going to explain this on a Dick and Jane level for you any longer. You simply misunderstood my post and you've cherry picked from it to argue over something that isn't even there to argue about. you're absolutely ridiculous for this. This is beyond lunacy to continue to do this with you. Leave it be. That conversation I was having with AGUYNAMEDALEX simply flew over your head. WTF man, are you serious? Or just trolling? It's a misunderstand on your part. Good night!
     
  27. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    ....omg:lost:
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  28. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree some fans overreact, but don't act like the dolphins have not been a **** show for the last 25+ years. There has been plenty of stuff to rightly complain about. We should not jump off the tua train yet, he has shown exactly what he did in college so far, he is an accurate thrower and makes wise decisions when given time. He doesn't have a cannon arm and his inability to put more velocity on some of his throws is a little worrisome, but I don't think he will be a bust if he can stay healthy. His durability is what worries me more than anything else.
     
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  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    How does Mahomes get to scramble for 30 seconds every play and they never call a holding penalty?
     
  30. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I was just masochistic enough to watch the first quarter and a half of the game again, and it’s ridiculous really to expect a rookie quarterback and a young, newly assembled offensive line to manage the various pressure looks that were coming at them today.

    Chalk that game up to inexperience as individual players and with each other. Denver certainly had the appropriate defensive gameplan against the Dolphins’ offense.
     
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  31. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, I do but I dont. haha. I do because it says hey; if you aren't doing your job we'll go to someone who will. While I like that message I don't know how well it goes across in the locker room where just a handful of weeks ago we benched a QB who was winning games for us to put Tua on the field. Now at the first real sign of struggle (I don't count his struggles with the Rams; that D is nasty) we put the guy back on the bench? How is a team that probably felt benching Fitz when they did was strange supposed to take that message now that you've benched the future "franchise QB" for some struggles in a game we're losing. Just seemed a bit too early on the trigger there. It's like saying hey... the old guy is doing ok, but the young guy is the future so lets build around him. Wait; we're losing this one... where's that big red panic button?

    To me, I like the short term message of hey, if you aren't getting it done we'll look elsewhere. When at the same time we previously said to Fitz... hey we're doing fine, but we think he gives us a better chance. But the second he's got to face some adversity and overcome his own poor play we're giving him the hook? Oh, and yeah he's still the starter. It's the long term outlook of the message that doesn't sit well and concerns me a bit for how it'll be viewed by the rest of the team that has to "buy in" to starting the rook.

    Just feels like a bit of mixed messaging to me. I've got no problem with benching him yesterday, he didn't look good; I'm just concerned a bit with how it all plays out
     
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  32. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    The team needs the message that if it's going to be successful with a rookie QB and this degree of surrounding offensive talent (almost nil), they're going to have to rise to the occasion and all give a little extra. I don't know if yesterday's move sends that message, but the team certainly needs it.

    I think part of what may have happened yesterday is that the team had given that little extra for Tua's first three games and then slid back in that regard yesterday, perhaps resting on their laurels a bit. Well that can't happen if this team is going to win with these players. If you want to be a Cinderella story you have to play like you're clawing and climbing uphill every week and take the field with that mentality from start to finish.
     
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  33. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    More or less how I feel too.

    I guess my opinion is that when they put in Tua they werent saying he is the best chance to win now. My opinion is/was is that they were saying in order to win next season let's get him experience now and if we win this year that's icing on top.

    If the staff truly made the change because they felt Tua was their best chance if winning now I vehemently disagree. Not because Tua can never possibly surpass Fitz but because Fitz knows so much more about the offense and reading an NFL defense pre-snap and post snap.

    That is why I dont 100% like the move. In my opinion despite Fitz currently being the best QB, the previous move already showed me they didnt care about playing the best QB right now.
     
  34. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Can you elaborate some on what you saw? I can't be bothered to watch that again, and for some reason I didn't record it. Be curious to hear some of the things you saw them throw at him that may have caused some issues.
     
  35. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Tua dudnt win the Arizona game either. His offense was outscored by the opposing offense.

    Also you're falling into a major trap hole in my opinion. The game doesnt go the same way if Fitz is starting. It's not possible to know if he does or doesnt win the game.

    You cant point to play A or play B because those plays dont happen at all with Fitz starting and instead you get situations Y and Z that are entirely different.

    The idea its more likely to win with Tua now is laughable. Hes had 4 games so far and played like a dog turd in two of them. One he was incredibly average, and against Arizoba he had a great game despite making a mountain of mistakes Arizona failed to capitalize on.

    I do think Tua has been better than I thought he would and he can certainly surpass Fitz/become a starting QB but to say hes there now is insulting to Fitz in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  36. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    From 1:14:54 -



     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  37. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    So, taking a step back, I don't think what we saw was the Dolphins losing to a poor Denver team. I've gone back over their season and I think everyone was underestimating the Broncos based on their Win-Loss record, injuries, and Drew Lock not being the world-beating QB everyone hoped he would be.

    Apart from games against Tampa, Kansas City and the hot Raiders (which were all bad losses), Denver have been close in every single other loss they've had.

    Additionally, and most importantly, their defense has been decent. This is a legit D. They've had some players out for COVID and other reasons, but Fangio's D is good, and that fact right there should have given us pause for thought when we consider our rather average offense.

    Lastly, the run game. We know we've struggled against the run. They've got some serious playmakers on that offense at WR and RB, and interestingly, when Denver's run game has done well, Denver has won ball games.

    Check it:
    https://www.milehighreport.com/2020...-ground-game-goes-so-goes-its-win-loss-record

    A close look at this matchup, injuries not withstanding, should have told us that this was going to be tough, and far from the cake-walk some of us expected.

    Welcome to the NFL Tua!
     
  38. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Essentially variants of the stuff the Dolphins did to Jared Goff, with blitzers coming often and from disguised and unpredictable spots. Imagine what that would do to a young, newly assembled offensive line and a rookie QB. Goff is a 5th-year pro and was befuddled. In fact you could argue Tua played a far better game than he did under similar circumstances.
     
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  39. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I mean, I agree because one of my posts before the game was "I can see Denver beating us"
     
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