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Allen Hurns & Albert Wilson Opt Out

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Destroyer, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As usual you go to the extreme opposite end of the spectrum as I haven't seen anyone here suggest that is what is happening. To deny that it has happened and continues to happen just aligns your thought process with the Jerry Nadlers of the world.
     
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  2. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Go back a page and read it?
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's not a conspiracy theory that people are being diagnosed as covid because it brings more money on. Hospitals were completely shut down, except for emergency services for months. Massive furloughs all over the country of hospital workers. Hospitals weren't bringing in revenue from their normal elective procedures. But diagnose as covid, instant revenue. On a ventilator? Even more revenue. It's been admitted by officials several times that this was going on.

    It's astounding to me that you guys either don't know this, or are simply dismissing it. People aren't just making this stuff up.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    South Carolina.
     
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How are the tests different down there? I understand different labs, but isn't the main test jabbing a giant swab deep in your nasal cavity, then sending it out for testing? Then there's the antibody test.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  7. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Doesn't fit the narrative that some guy's here (especially in Club) want to promote. It's bette to play politics then to look at facts and data.
     
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  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The conspiracy theory is not that this is happening- I don't think anyone needs a lot of convincing that something like this is going to occur given the nature of our healthcare system.

    The conspiracy is that it's making covid-19 look deadlier than it actually is, which is absurd when you've got 200k+ excess deaths from baseline so far this year.
     
  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Some NY hospitals have a finger stick test that gives results in a few hours. Others have a swab that barely goes in your nostrils or throat and it's results are 1-2 days.

    You probably got yours back fast because there's very little cases there- that's not the norm across most of the nation. My friends in Fla have waited 7-10 days on average. Here it's 7-14. The next county over though gets them in 2 days (how they tested my dad last week in the hospital). His prior test there in June was 12 days though. So I think it really depends on the individual labs and the county/state.

    Oh, my antibody test (giving blood) took 7 days and a friend in Fla was about the same. I don't know if that's the norm for that test though.
     
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  10. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    That’s 200,000 deaths, some of which are legitimately questionable whether or not they’re covid related against 5,000,000 cases. That’s a 4% death rate if you contract covid and the vast majority of the deaths, which I illustrated in an earlier post are the elderly as well as those with medical conditions that compromise their immune systems. In fact, in a nation of 330,000,000, the infection rate is only 1.5% of the population.

    Im not downplaying the severity of this virus but you have a better chance of dying in a car accident or getting stuck by lightning than you do of dying from covid.

    Bottom line, be responsible, don’t act idiotically, don’t succumb to the fear mongering and you’re going to be just fine.
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Where is this getting struck by lightning idea coming from?

    I keep on seeing it.
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If they're legitimately questionable, I'd love to see you do it rather than just blithely suggesting it's possible.

    That's a bad thing.

    The methods of slowing the spread have been somewhat effective, so it's important we... not do that anymore? That it's OK to not have athletes really follow those rules? What?

    You are 100% downplaying the severity of this virus when you say something like that. It's not true, and borderline not even a good faith misunderstanding.
     
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  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What is the evidenced that what we did slowed the spread? Penn State study says the opposite.

    You do have a higher chance of dying in a car accident than you do dying of covid.
     
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  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I thought you said you understood
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Look, it's easy to say that this is no big deal...everyone thinks that until they see their healthy kid gasping for breath or they see their parent taken off in an ambulance and you're told not to follow since you can't visit the hospital. I've done both of those in the past month.

    The part you're missing is that this isn't about death- it's about having your world rocked as one family member gets deathly ill and another doesn't even sneeze. My 18 year old was the sickest she's ever been in her life and ended up with permanent damage to her colon. My dad has permanent damage to his lungs and it will likely take years off his lifespan (he's 85...which means his lifespan could now be close to zero). People are getting extremely sick and staying that way for months, with lasting health problems that may never go away.

    But hey, they're alive right? So it's no big deal since those MILLIONS OF PEOPLE don't make your 15 second nightly news recap of COVID.
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I mean public policy in terms of slowing covid-19 spread has absolutely been a pathetic failure in the face of what every other semi-developed nation in the world has done saving Brazil, but you've taken public safety measured that have slowed the spread, albeit haphazardly, intermittently, and in a highly individualistic way.

    Even granting the idea it hasn't, what's the point exactly? That it's going to spread unevenly based on regional characteristics? OK, you've still got the clearly got the ability to overwhelm hospitals ability to provide care, I'm not sure what the point is.

    OK, let's take this and qualify this in a way so that it's actually true. Here-

    If you take the current spread of the disease, assume it's stable/flat, extrapolate that risk over the entire country in a way that's uniform(including a vast amount of individuals who are taking unprecedented precautions to slow the spread), and then take the fatality rate for a younger demographic and assume that medical facilities will not be overwhelmed, your risk of dying of Covid-19 so far is less than your lifetime chances of dying in a car accident.

    Why is that a value statement to be made in general, or even in the context of sports? Especially with an underlying sense that some of those implicit assumptions are being in practice being suggested to be unnecessary?
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    1. There are several countries that didn't do anything, and they're some of the best in regards to covid in the world. The Penn State study I referenced said that the lockdown, social distancing, and masks were akin to closing the barn door after the horses already escaped.

    2. I'm not sure I agree AT ALL with the hospitals being overrun argument. NYC, probably the worst hit, never used many of the emergency hospitals, including the Navy ship. Meanwhile, they had plenty of room in hospitality that they weren't using, and furloughing workers. So even at our worst, the fear of overwhelming hospitals didn't happen.

    3. The point of comparing to lightning strikes or car crashes or choking deaths is to point out that those are risks that are a greater danger, but we don't shut down the country over those. And don't tell me it's about deaths, either. The leading cause of death in America is heart disease. Yet we don't enact draconian rules to eradicate that risk of death. That's just one example of many. How about alcohol? Alcohol had almost 100,000 alcohol related deaths in 2018... And that involves people of all ages, and innocent people that get killed by sometime else? Yet that is allowed, and people would be angry if we took similar draconian measures towards alcohol.
     
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  18. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Accusing people of not taking it seriously, then being forced to use hyperbolic, hypotheticals to try and prove your point is kinda funny to me.

    Just say "hey, I'm preferring to approach this with much more caution than most"...that is both respectable and understandable, and also a better approach on your end.
     
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  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think I've ever seen a country referenced as performing well that "did nothing" that actually fit that bill, especially when you get into cultural differences.

    What's the Penn State study?

    That's ignoring what those facilities are actually for, and what they actual problems were. The Navy ships weren't for covid-19 patients, it was for other hospital cases, and the field hospitals are pretty much completely useless. Miami-Dade exceeded capacity to the point where they were exporting cases to neighboring counties, and every field hospital in the state was shut down without seeing a patient besides the one, which was never really meaningfully used even in the peak.

    Once again, they aren't greater dangers in any meaningful comparable sense. It's boomer facebook dad ****.

    Alcohol is an absurd comparison- not just it's apples to oranges(it's not a ****ing contagious disease), it's incredibly regulated in a sense you could most certainly regard as "draconian" in the name of public safety. Every facet of alcohol is regulated- who can drink it, when, where, how much you can buy or consume, as well as who can make it, sell it, etc. and so on in a way that goes far above and beyond what's occurred with covid-19.
     
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  20. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    "C'mon man"....
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    But I keep hearing that every death is unacceptable, regarding covid. How come that isn't the case with alcohol? I'm just saying, there are plenty of things that we don't try to eradicate, alcohol related deaths being one. There are other things we could do regarding alcohol if our goal was to prevent deaths. I find it interesting, anything you disagree with, you simply dismiss completely.

    The Penn State study is the one from the last month or so that said we had almost 90x higher infection in March than we thought, and it doubled quicker than we thought.

    https://news.psu.edu/story/623797/2...ction-rate-may-be-80-times-greater-originally
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Because with alcohol, it's a choice made by the person drinking it. That's also why DUI's and vehicular manslaughter are illegal and heavily punished. The two aren't direct comparisons.....and we definitely try to eradicate drunks behind the wheel or drinking themselves to death.

    While you're right that we can make alcohol, tobacco, guns and all sorts of other dangerous stuff illegal, that's not an option with a virus. Honestly though, calling COVID illegal would probably have about the same effect as calling alcohol illegal...drunks are going to find a way to drink regardless.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Alcohol kills plenty of people every year who didn't drink it themselves. Alcohol is simply an accepted risk. We allow alcohol consumption to continue, even though we know that innocent people will die, even through people legally acquiring and consuming it.

    But I'm told that any death from covid is unacceptable, and we need to do everything possible, including causing financial hardships and other hardships, to stop them.
     
  24. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But these only affect 1 person - you can't potentially pass on a lightening strike, a car crash or choking to multiple people, you can with COVID. As has been said, some people may get no symptoms at all but they can still pass it on.
    As Key has said, everyone has a responsibility to be sensible. Here in the UK, the teenagers and the over 70's appear to be the most reckless - my wife is on the higher risk register and we are just limiting what we are doing.
     
  25. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Are you Junkie?
     
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  26. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  27. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Here’s what I’m going to be interested in seeing. If the NCAA or individual conferences or schools cancel their football seasons due to coronavirus, what’s going to happen to students that are attending football scholarships?

    We have a friend whose son is on a football scholarship to Eastern Kentucky. Not sure what that school is doing regarding football but if the school cancels it’s season, will Alex be able to attend his senior year and graduate? You would hope so but if he’s not playing football then he’s not earning his scholarship.
     
  28. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I think legally all schools will be forced to honor that contract that is a scholarship. Luckily he will he fine, but in sure losing your senior season in CFB where many kids will never play again would be a gut punch.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Huh? A drunk driver can kill more than one person at a time. But then if it was only one person, so what? Doesn't that person's life matter? Shouldn't we do everything we can to prevent that person from dying?

    That is the argument being levied at me, not necessarily in here, when I talk to people about covid.
     
  30. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Again, this comparison fundamentally does not work and it's baffling you're sticking with it. A scenario in which covid-19 would be treated like alcohol(much less this insinuation that it's held to a higher standard) would at very least involve the criminalization of activities leading to its spread as well as liability for the harm caused by spreading it.
     
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  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow, I didn't expect to wake up this morning and see that CFB players are unionizing and tricking an otherwise hostile segment of the population into excitedly sharing their calls for a union.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm simply comparing the idea that any death from covid is unacceptable, when it has a 99.96% survival rate, data I saw from CDC, To other leading causes of death in America. That is all.
     
  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I have no doubts you are devastated, and was holding out hope that instead of uniting they would release a statement aliken to that of a movement that organized AGAINST playing, all the while burning things and vandalizing campuses.

    This way some more virtue signaling points can be accrued in the race for the most "woke" person in TP.Com history.
     
  34. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No it's pretty ****ing rad that CFB players are organizing actually.
     
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  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree. If you think about the draw college football has (just the number of pure fans....not even the money aspect) it should be common sense that players have some level of representation. Yet they don't. We treat them like commodities who have to be 100% loyal to their schools and the league at all times. College players do deserve a say in the matter.

    I saw Trevor Lawrence posted a series of Tweets this weekend that basically said that players are more in danger of COVID if they stay at home where safety measures are being largely ignored. He wants to play and the league should at least listen to one of their biggest stars speaking on behalf of his teammates and opponents.

    What comes from these discussions could actually fundamentally change college football and I think that's a great thing. People say athletes receive a scholarship and that's fair compensation, but it's really not considering the most coveted players rarely end up graduating (since they go to the NFL early instead). These kids are basically dropouts...which means their education has no value in the workforce after football. The least they deserve is a voice on issues like this one.
     
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  36. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Well, you certainly have it now.
     
  37. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You know that's not what I was saying because even one person dying at the hands of a drunk driver is one too many. However, if you can potential infect 10 people and then they can go & potentially infect 10 people each (etc), that's a lot of people potentially carrying it. As has been said, not all will show symptoms or have such terrible side effects but that's a lot more than the examples used.
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The data suggests that the infection rate in March was almost 90x higher than we thought. That means that we had far more infected walking around than we thought, so the preventative measures we took were almost useless. That's my point. The virus was already out there at that point, and it was going to run its course.
     
  39. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Reality bites.
    It is what it is.
     
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  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In March, I drove down to Mardi Gras with my family literally on a last minute decision and took a cruise to Cozumel, Mexico. There were no preventative measures at that time and it was a freaking awesome trip! We rented a Jeep in Mexico and just drove the island for the day, picking pretty spots to serve as our private beaches and just enjoying the scenery.

    The first mentions of COVID on the news were maybe 3 or 4 days after we got home. I think the lock down kicked in about 2 1/2 weeks later.

    A staff member on our ship got sick & tested positive for COVID about 4 days after we left, and we received an email from Carnival saying we potentially could have been exposed. So I went to a local testing site in early April and they told me that I didn't meet the criteria for testing (this is when my chest was really sore but no other symptoms). My doctor did test me and I was negative, but my dad was super sick a few weeks later (he DID NOT go to New Orleans/Mexico with us). I took him to the hospital around April 10th and there were 9 cops outside, none of them in masks. They made my dad walk inside alone, kept him for 9 hours and sent him home with a COVID diagnosis off x-rays, but his test came back negative 13 days later and was back to feeling normal around day 10 or 11.

    On April 10th, there were 22 confirmed cases of COVID in SC...my dad was number 23. We didn't know that he was officially counted until a few days ago though when we all had this conversation.

    Anyway, for all of March and even the soft lock downs in April/May, there were zero mask requirements in my state and everyone went to WalMart/Publix like normal. So the "restrictions" did nothing to slow the spread in this area, even though we were at home a lot more nobody around here took it seriously at all. They tried contact tracing my dad's potential COVID case but as soon as I said I was in New Orleans/Mexico, they gave up. I'm curious if I was an "official case" since my doctor suspected me of COVID- I had an outdoor office visit with her basically in a HASMAT suit and listening to my lungs thru our car window...that was something I'll never forget.

    My point here is that my family went to drastic lengths to figure out if we had COVID and we took masks/distancing super serious in early April because of our experiences. To this day though, we have no idea if any of us had COVID or not, so OF COURSE the infected were an estimated 90x higher! The numbers don't add up correctly otherwise and early on, it was almost impossible to actually get tested.

    As I said in another post, I'm wondering if local testing focuses on the major strain for that area. If so, I was probably tested for the strain in NY while the Mardi Gras strain was different...that would explain everything. But that's also a complete guess on my part because we don't have any info on testing or what's actually tested.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
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