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Execs on Tagovailoa: 'There is serious concern'

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by The G Man, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Marino had a 16.

    Wonderlic is meaningless for high-tier prospects, most of whom don't take it very seriously.
     
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is my opinion on it.
     
  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Not taking it seriously is a red flag, imo. It doesn't mean that they're dumb, but it's a show of arrogance and potentially a lack of coschability or agreeableness.
     
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  4. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Ridiculous. It's a meaningless exam that many top recruits simply don't prioritize at the top of their lists. Rightly so. It's a complete joke. I'd be more concerned by a GM that takes it seriously than a prospect that doesn't.
     
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  5. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, Marino was great because of his intangibles, instincts and raw talent.

    He was actually not that great at reading complex defenses and made a lot of bad decisions throughout his career. If Tua had the intangibles that marino had like a lightning quick release, great size and durability, great pocket presence, and a rocket launcher for an arm with pinpoint accuracy then I would be willing to overlook his low wonderlic, but Tua has none of those things except for good accuracy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  7. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Not real concerning because I think the NFL uses that (or should use it) as a floor measure and not a predictive one. In other words, above a certain score (threshold) a player should be able to function in the NFL with regard to the intellectual demand involved. Below that level, perhaps not. But I doubt that scores above that level are predictive of anything meaningful in the NFL.
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Greg McIlroy had a 48, how'd that work out? Meaningless.
     
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  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Obviously, you need to have a minimum amount of physical talent to succeed. I think we all understand that. Being a genius, but a bad football player, won't get you very far as a player. Though it could be a great sign for a future coach.

    And comparing guys today to those who played way back when isn't apples and oranges either, because those guys went in largely unprepared, at least compared to the ones today. These days, any player who pays any attention to the NFL at all should be aware of what the test is, and that players need to be prepared for it at the combine. For a player who everyone knows is expected to be a first round draft pick to come in and do poorly, to me that shows that he truly isn't very bright, or he's blowing the process off, and either way its a big deal. Its a sign of disrespect towards the league and the process. Entitlement and arrogance.
     
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  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Or he is bad at taking tests.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There’s gonna be serious concern if Grier doesn’t select Tua..
     
  12. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Wasn't sure where to post this, so putting it here. More smoke?

    TUA TAGOVAILOA, QB
    [​IMG]
    The Miami Herald's Armando Salguero reports the Dolphins gave Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa (hip) a passing grade on his physical.
    "The Dolphins are satisfied Tagovailoa is on schedule to a full recovery from the hip injury and ensuing surgery that derailed his 2019 season," Salguero writes. He later adds that Tagovailoa is "the favorite to be the Dolphins selection at No. 5," but there is a building movement that Miami has "seriously debated not picking a quarterback" at all at that spot. That's a lot to chew on. Whatever the case, it sounds as if the Dolphins would be comfortable adding Tua if his medical history is the only thing standing in the way. Miami's final decision could go up to the minute on Thursday evening.

    SOURCE: Armando Salguero on Twitter
    Apr 22, 2020, 9:39 AM ET
     
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  13. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I dont think it's the end all be all, but it should be concerning the QB a team is drafting isnt overly physically gifted AND tested like a box of rocks.
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If that's true, then he's the pick at #5. I mean, think about it...we tanked the entire season for that guy. There's no way they suddenly said, "Hey, that kid Herbet <or Eason> <or whoever> looks pretty good..." If we're taking a 1st round QB, it's always been Tua. The end of that article mentioned that some in the front office want to go a different position at #5 and it does make sense for LB or OT, but ultimately I don't think they can pass on Tua. They're in love with the kid and I just don't think they can get past it.

    Would I take Tua? No...but I hadn't coveted him for the past 18 months either. I was neutral on him and watched his season to form my own opinion on that year. And I did like what I saw, but I wasn't already in love with the guy like our front office was. I think he could be a very good NFL quarterback or a complete bust w/ injury, but our team sees a superstar that basically can't miss.

    So let's hope they're right in this love-affair...it will have lasting effects on our franchise either way.
     
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  15. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    It comes down to: 'Can we coach up Love or Herbert?' versus 'Can Tua stay healthy?'

    One you have some control over, the other.... not so much. How about we go Tua at #5 and Love at #18? Cover the bases and hope one is the franchise QB? You could probably flip the odd man out for a pick in 2021-2022. Build the OL with #26 and the second rounders, the defense will have to get by until the 2021 draft.
     
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  16. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Considering what you said about their love affair, I like the part where if Tua is there at #5 we take him, if not, we go another direction. That way, we stay somewhat true to our board, and the part I like best is by staying at #5, we don't give up any resources. I might add that with Tua at #5 unless we go LT at #18, I fear we may not get one. We might have to double up at that position with our later picks in hopes of trying to find a LT, which is probably not a bad idea anyway. Yes, we have Flowers, but I think it would be a huge mistake moving him away from a position he finally has had some success at.
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I think the draft that makes the most sense if we take Tua at #5 is going OT, OT, RB with the next three picks. We do need D-line help and it would be great to land one of these stud safeties, but if we're looking for the most instant bang for our buck...the path is to complete the offense and worry about the D in later rounds/next year. And the reason I say that is because you don't want to start Tua behind a brand new, unproven line...let the bearded one work his magic with the rookies so they're ready once Tua is healthy.

    If the pick at #5 isn't Tua, then I think you focus on defense at that pick (Simmons) and your next few selections still land your future offensive tackles. And maybe you take Eason or Hurts later on because you're in a BPA mentality instead of "We have to build around Tua today." I do have a feeling that we take a QB regardless, but the only one we'd snag at #5 is Tua.
     
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  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    How do you see our OL potentially shaping up? Tentatively I have the following. I put Flowers at LG because that is where he played last year when he had success with Washington.

    LT:? (1st round draft pick)
    LG: Ereck Flowers
    C: Ted Karras
    RG:? On the roster? OG draft pick(s)?
    RT: Jessie Davis

    So, we should be looking to draft at least 2 o-linemen, right? I am guessing going with OT's since most likely they can move inside if they can't cut it outside. If so, that could mean on day 1 and/or day 2. I also like the OC/OG combination, but those 2 guys are day 2 prospects because this draft is supposedly weak when it comes to interior linemen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  19. Dan S

    Dan S Phins up!

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    So if we take Tua, does the need for one of the elite LT's go away since he's a lefty? And who are the top RT's we should be looking at?
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Flowers is probably the only guy relatively set in stone. I don't particularly like the idea of 3 rookies starting, but we are so thin on the line and have so many picks it's hard not to see it. The one scenario where maybe that doesn't happen is if we swing a trade (Trent Williams, Joe Thuney, etc) or really believe in Karras as a starter (doubtful considering the contract).

    LT: Rookie
    LG: Flowers
    C: Karras/Rookie
    RG: Davis
    RT: Rookie

    Alternately, flip Davis to RT for a rookie RG depending on how the draft goes.

    I think the brass wants a stud day 1 starter at LT, thus the interest in potentially trading up for Thomas or Wills. Pair with maybe Isaiah Wilson or Jack Driscoll at RT on day 2. I think our interior OL strategy will be dictated by how the draft plays out. Maybe we spend 26 on Ruiz, or maybe we wait until round 2 to see if he falls, or just do interior picks in rounds 4-7 for depth and competition.
     
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  21. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Steven Ross is on record with concerns about Tua's ability to stay healthy. You can't ignore the billionaire in the room. We'll find out tomorrow.
     
  22. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I would be stoked with Ruiz, plus he is from Michigan, so that will make Ross happy. ;-)
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'd personally take two tackles in the 1st round and a guard in the 2nd......plus another tackle and another guard late (or UFDA). I'd get 6 or 7 ultra tough kids in the room and teach them the position from the ground up and creating a herd mentality amongst them. Personally, I've always thought that you could build a great line in the later rounds of the draft if you have the scouts and coaching in place to elevate these guys....it's just not a priority in the NFL.

    I don't see any way around starting three rookies though- Jesse Davis is a slightly below average NFL starter and he works if needed, but we really should upgrade both tackles now. Then you let Davis grow and force a rookie to out-play him for the starting role. It's a win/win situation because either Davis improves or you get a player above his level.
     
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  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Steven Ross is on record with a lot of things and very few of them include what the front office is actually doing. He's a lousy source of information regarding anything football.
     
  25. 757Niner

    757Niner Active Member

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    This my thing...do you really want to sacrifice the captial it takes to move up, with the holes you have elsewhere on the roster?

    I mean there's really not that much of a gap between Thomas, Wirfs, Becton, and Willis imo. I like Becton alot more than most but I think staying@5 and taking the best OT left on the board makes more sense. If that's the route your brass is choosing to go.

    The first two picks are locked. Even with the Trent Williams situation in DC, there's no way they're passing up Young. G-Men probably go OT. Detroit is going defense...or QB??

    Either way, you still are getting one of the top 3 talents at the position. Not worth the trade up imo. At least not for OT...
     
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  26. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    LOL! I hear ya. It's a shame our OL is in such bad shape. I can imagine the hue and cry over our picks if we took 2 LT in round 1 and an OG in the 2nd. I hope Allen and McKenzie can help Grier with this. They might be better at evaluating OL and maybe we can get a gem in the late rounds. It would be nice to hit on one of these late round guys for a change.
     
  27. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Normally I do think people might mope about "unsexy" line picks. However, with 6 picks in the first 3 rounds, I think we can take 2-3 OL guys and still have enough for other positions. That depends on how/if they maneuver of course. I think we all also understand that our line is truly a weak point in need of straight talent in addition to coaching.

    I am generally a proponent of lower round drafted linemen, but when you need starters now, you need to look in the upper echelon.

    QB/OL/RB/S/OL/OL ... wouldn't complain too much.

    I think we really try and swing for one of the big 4 tackles though. Whether we use some assets from next year or this one remains to be seen. At that point, I wouldn't be shocked if we do some trading down in rounds 2-3 for extra 3rd/4th rounders.
     
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  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    You a Michigan fan, or from the area? I moved up to the area a few years ago, have some family that went there, but personally not a rooting interest.

    We have been linked to a ton of Michigan guys though, and Flores poached their LB coach, so could see a couple of them targeted.
     
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  29. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    The Miami Herald reports the Lions are "planning" as if they will have the No. 5 overall pick in tomorrow evening's first round.
    Meaning, the Dolphins trade up with the Lions to No. 3 overall, likely to secure a quarterback. After weeks of rumor and misdirection, the Dolphins once again seem most likely to take Alabama's Tua Tagovailoa over Oregon's Justin Herbert, though no one seems to truly know. The Dolphins have played the coronavirus-affected rumor mill to perfection. This will not be the last Dolphins or Tua report you read between now and draft time.

    SOURCE: Armando Salguero on Twitter
    Apr 22, 2020, 11:45 PM ET

    Ugh...please God, no. Take him at #5 if you must. But, don't forfeit picks to move up for him!
     
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  30. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    No. I don't really have a college team, and although I did grow up in the Northeast, I currently live in central Florida. Like you, I was just seeing that there would be a connection. :-)
     
  31. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Profootballtalk's Mike Florida reports Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa to the Jaguars has "gathered steam in recent days."
    Tagovailoa could fall to the Jaguars at No. 9, but with the No. 20 selection, as well, they also have the ammunition for a trade up if necessary. The 2020 draft's central mystery is whether the Dolphins will take Tagovailoa or Oregon's Justin Herbert at No. 5 overall. Tagovailoa has some of the most all-over-the-map pre-draft chatter in recent memory.

    SOURCE: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com
    Apr 23, 2020, 2:31 PM ET
     
  32. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Marino was strung out on Coke when he took the Wonderlic

    What is Tua's excuse?
     
  33. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I really don't care. Maybe being strung out on coke would be a good omen.
     
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  34. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    I certainly care.

    I am not a big fan of the most important draft of my Dolphins fan life... Being dependent on someone's ability to get off of cocaine.
     
  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    It was Miami in the 80s. Coke was a natural connection.
     
  36. Obviously Tua scoring on the cognitive test what an average primate in the forest could manage is a red flag. But it is only a piece of data. He is a moron, no doubt, but other morons have been able to function as NFL QBs, many others have not. There is statistically significant correlation between playoff wins and wonderlic scores, but it is not strong. Tua is a medical and intellectual abomination, but he has a high "football IQ." as the cliche goes. The Phins arent picking him, but whoever does will sink or swim and just do it again in 2-3 years.
     
  37. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Miami started those cocaine rumors.
     
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