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What if Marino had played one more year?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hitman8, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think we could have at least made it to the super bowl, if not finally won it for Dan. We had the 3rd best defense in the NFL in 2000, that year was the last time we won a playoff game. If we had a better offense with Marino playing one more year we would have had a good chance.

    Marino himself has said he physically could have played a couple more years.

    It was the Jimmy Johnson fued and the terrible playoff loss in Jacksonville that basically forced him out.

    Thoughts on what could have been?
     
  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We had the NFL's best defense in 1998 by points allowed the year before he retired, and we couldn't get past the divisional championships, in part because Marino hadn't had a good playoff game since the 1994 season. He was a great QB, but he was done by 1999, and it's really sad he had arguably the worst send-off of all time for a great player with that Jacksonville loss.

    No he wasn't going to win the SB had he not retired, unless he wasn't a major contributor.. like with Peyton in 2015.
     
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  3. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that woulda happened was Dan Marino adding to his career totals. We were not going to win a SB in 1999, Marino himself said the Jaguar loss made him realize just how far the Dolphins were from really competing for a SB.
     
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  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Statistics aside, I think our 2000 defense was significantly better than the 98 defense. Specifically our secondary was better in 2000 than in 98 with Pat Surtain, Sam Madison, Brock Marion and Brian Walker as the starters.

    Marino still had it in 99. He missed a few games due to injury but he won some clutch games for us that year. That playoff loss was not his fault, Jacksonville was just a much better team playing at home and the dolphins were not well prepared.

    I think in 2000 with Wandstead as HC Marino would have been more comfortable. With Marino and a couple more pieces on offense, plus that defense we would have had a shot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Marino played terribly that game. Did you see his first pass? WAY off mark for an INT. Yes, it was the defense that gave up most of those 62 points (though one Marino fumble returned for a TD didn't help), but Marino was making it less likely we'd win the game, not more likely. No he was done. And like I said, he hadn't had a good playoff game since the 1994 season. It's not just one playoff game we're talking about.

    Yeah put him on the early 2000's team with Ricky Williams and that really good defense and he would have maybe done better than Fiedler, but seriously he wasn't playing like a great QB when he retired. The team would have had to win in spite of him, like Peyton in 2015.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Saying that the 2000 defense was the #3 in the league that season is actually seriously underselling them.

    That was the best defense in any 16 game season in Dolphins history by points allowed, and 8th by yards allowed.

    They allowed a passing TD/INT ratio of 13/28, along with 48 sacks, the third most in team history. They allowed a passer rating of 57.5! And are the only Dolphins team since 1985 to create 40 or more turnovers.

    They were the number three defense that year in part because the Ravens were number one, with one of the best defenses of all time, which they rode all the way to the Super Bowl and a Titans defense that allowed the third fewest points of any team in the 16-game era also!

    Now, how much better would they have been had they had Marino, and had he been able to stay healthy? They started the season 8-2. Their only two losses were in Week 2, when the Vikings held them scoreless until the final minute, and the Nightmare In NYC game, when they blew a 30-7 lead in the 4th quarter. Marino would have likely made a lot of their wins during that stretch prettier, but I don't know that he would have changed the record a whole lot.

    After 13 games, the standings looked like this:

    Miami 10-3
    Jets 9-4 (having swept the Fins)
    Buffalo 7-6
    Colts 7-6
    New England 4-7

    In the rest of the AFC, these were the Playoff contenders:

    Oakland 10-3
    Tennessee 10-3
    Kansas City 9-4
    Baltimore 9-4
    Pittsburgh 7-6

    The Dolphins had to Face Tampa Bay, who was 8-5, Indy and New England the final three games. Wins vs Indy and NE would have been enough to secure the #2 seed. Winning out would have earned the #1 seed. They lost a game vs TB where the Bucs did nothing all game long and was just there to be had 13-16. The next week, they held the Colts to 20 points, but lost 20-13. And then won a weird, wild comeback game vs NE in Week 17.

    So, would a healthy Marino have made a difference in those final three games? I have to think that he really would have. He also would likely have allowed them to not be swept by the Jets. And then the team would have had a first round bye, and hosted the Colts, Ravens or Raiders in the second round, rather that having to travel to Oakland, battered and weak after the OT win vs the Colts in the WC round. That would have given them a great shot at the AFC championship game, and potentially a SB matchup vs Giants team that wasn't all that memorable.

    That could have ended in a SB title had things gone fairly well.
     
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  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Sadly and ironically, he was wrong. Just so much went wrong during the last part of 1999, then his emotions had to be as low as they could be.
     
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  8. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    That game was truly sad. Both because of the margin of defeat and because it was Marino's final game and he played the way he did.

    Compare that to this playoff game, from his prime:

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198501060mia.htm
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    He was on fire in the 92 game vs SD before they took the foot off the gas at halftime too. He was also excellent vs in 94, with over 500 yards, 5 TDs and 0 picks in two games. The Jimmy years, after he turned 35, were obviously a lot harder.
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I remember the Jacksonville debacle, Marino didnt play well, but neither did anybody on the team. The dolphins just were not prepared to compete that day for whatever reason.

    Marino played pretty well in 99 before he got the bone spur injury in his neck. After that injury he missed a few games and was not 100% when he came back. However that is not a career ending injury. He could have healed up in the offseason and come back in good shape for 2000.

    I really think they could have had a shot with Marino and a couple more pieces on offense in 2000.

    It was a real shame seeing him go out like that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Great analysis. I hadnt really looked at the stats but yeah just off the top of my head the 2000 defense was better than 98. It was probably the best defense in dolphins history.

    The dolphins also had a pretty good offensive line in 2000 as we hit a home run drafting wade in the 2nd round.

    That defense plus marino and the oline on offense along with adding a quality tight end. We would have had a good shot at the SB.
     
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  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think Marino let the dissapointment get the better of him, but the dolphins were also pushing him into retirement.

    He seriously considered going to Pittsburgh or Minnesota. He just didnt want to go through the hassle of moving.

    If the dolphins had made him an offer and encouraged him to stay I'm sure he would have played a couple more years here.
     
  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    It may not may not have been better than the early 70s teams. That was before I was born. But it was the best once since then no question. Combine that with it being one of the weakest years overall in the NFL that I can remember, and it would have been a great shot.
     
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  14. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to play devils advocate.

    Marino in 99 was terrible. Attribute it to whatever you want, but 12 TD to 17 INT is awful and his QB rating was in decline for his last four seasons, culminating in an embarrassing 67.4 rating in 1999.

    I actually wager by this point he was a worse QB than Fiedler.
     
  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    He we injured. That's why I prefaced most of what I said based upon him being healthy, and being able to play at about the same level that he did in 1998. He got hurt early in the fifth game, and then when he came back on Thanksgiving, he was clearly not himself. That day was the preview of the Jacksonville game.

    Obviously, there was a reason that he retired. He might not have been able to get healthy and get it back. That's totally possible. But I'm also willing to believe that he would have been able to have one more season like he did just the year before that.
     
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  16. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Marino's troubles in 99 were mainly due to a bone spur/pinched nerve injury in his neck which he sufferred in this game and then further aggravated it a week later in New England.



    But as you can tell from his game winning performance here, he still had it. He was slinging the ball around about as well as ever and outplayed Payton Manning for the win. After he came back from this injury in 99 he was obviously not the same and had problems with his arm strength which is why his performance went down.

    However with an offseason of treatment and healing he could have come back and performed at a high level again. Marino himself said he had a couple more years left in him. I was really dissapointed with the Dolphins in not supporting him more and basically pushing him into retirement.
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I guess it's that time of year to tell Marino stories.

    For those that don't know me, I grew up in Davie, Florida and had a neighbor that was absolutely obsessed with autographs. Frankie got so good at finding athletes and celebrities that he turned it into a business as a young teen and made good money selling to local collectible shops. His family owns Mimi's Ravioli over in Hollywood, FL...if you look at the family photo at the top of the scrolling homepage banner (slide 4), Frankie is the big guy in the middle with the cannoli cream.

    Anyway, every Thursday night Frankie would get the other kids from the neighborhood together and we'd go to Weston Country Club around 10 PM. Marino did his radio show from there and he rarely wanted to sign autographs, but he would drink at the country club during/after the radio show and generally be in a good mood coming out the door. He was more inclined to sign for kids as well, so Frankie would load up his Jeep Cherokee with as many of us as he could find between ages 10-20. I literally chatted for a few minutes with Marino almost every Thursday for about six years of this career...from 90 to 96 (then every now and then from 97-'00...I was in the Carolinas by then though).

    About half the time, Marino would cuss us out and tell us to leave....if he was sober, he wouldn't sign anything because he saw us every week. And he'd tell us off too...Dan wasn't a nice guy when he was irritated. If he was drunk, drunk then he'd sign anything, but the autographs would be so bad Frankie would tell us not to waste the photos (we'd always start with the 8x10 photos, then footballs, then jerseys...cheapest to most expensive). So we were always on the hunt for that 3-5 beer Marino, the one who would happily talk with kids for 5 minutes but wasn't too drunk to sign jerseys, photos and footballs. That "4 beer" Marino might even throw a football with us for a few minutes while telling a locker room story or describing a big win....that was the happy-go-lucky Dan.

    Towards the end of Marino's career he seemed to change some, we'd often have to wait in that parking lot until 12AM or later and he'd be staggering drunk. We almost never saw the "4 beer" version anymore and when we did, he would only talk briefly about their upcoming opponent....never last week's game, never the playoffs. He'd only focus on that next win because I think his career was starting to weigh on him a little. He took losing harder in the later part of his career and I'm honestly not sure how much he had left in the tank mentally in 2000. Looking back at all those years, I think it's tough to be one of the best ever but not have those rings to validate everything else you accomplished. And I just think that ate him up inside more than it would the average player...because Marino wasn't average. The whole team looked to him for magic every week and there's only so much one guy can do.

    Anyway, if I had to guess I'd say Frankie's "crew" got more Marino autographs than the rest of the world combined- if you have some signed memorabilia from the 90's, there's a fair chance that I was present for the autograph. The older I get, the less proud I am of doing that...but we did get a lot of cool stories from the autographs and I've shared many of them here over the years. If I can think of any more good ones that I haven't shared here multiple times, I'll post them this week.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  18. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Well like I said, his previous 4 years all showed a downward trend as well. I'm not saying he would have a repeat poor season, but I dont think we are looking at a certain success story/superbowl win if he plays.

    More like, bes case, we are looking at a 20-some TD with mid teen INT numbers.

    Is that enough to take us to the SB? I dont know.
     

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