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No QB in 2020? Grier Presser

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I like this perspective.

    Your presumptions are reasonable and the age of our OC does indicate a shorter term tenure.

    The conclusions are reasonable and the whole concept seems to be consistent with a team that is going through an extensive rebuilding as seen with what we've done so far in Free Agency, our huge 2020 number of draft selections; and what we can expect as rebuilding next year, based on our huge number of 2021 draft picks available.
     
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  2. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Management in coaching is more Command and Control vs. a "run by committee" system.

    In the end, all run by committee systems usually end being dictatorial. I can see by your post that you would like this kind of system.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Thank you.

    Also, we had rookies play more snaps than any other team. We are likely to have even more young guys after the draft. Flores, may juts be looking at teaching first and gamely strategy second.
     
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  4. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Whatever. Your opinion isn't even important enough to argue with you anymore, anyway.
     
  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Ok, I watched the Rose Bowl and the Sugar Bowl and I'll just say this....neither Herbert nor Fromm impressed me one bit. At least Fromm settled down and started playing a bit more effectively but some of his throws would be guaranteed interceptions in the NFL.

    Herbert? Jesus...what a hot mess!!!
     
  6. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    All I know is I wouldnt work for Flores because he gives the impression he doesnt care what anyone else around him thinks, that they have to think exactly what he does. So yeah...sorry, I would never play for or work with a guy who gives me that vibe.

    Thankfully i dont have to play for or work with him. If the team is successful, I'll be happy even if right now I just dont believe 100% in what we are doing or the culture we are building.

    In the end if we win games, then his style works and I'll be happy. It's not a personal thing against him, I'd rather he succeeds than fails.
     
  7. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You wouldn't want to work for someone who wants to build a winning culture and wants to put you/the player into the best scenario. Did you not say previously that Flores was a disgusting human being and your footie predicts that he will be a failure - nothing personal then?
     
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  8. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I already explained why I said that and it's pretty personal so if you want to know PM me but I wont be posting it here.

    You also just twisted my words. I said I wouldmt want to play or work with someone extremely over bearing.

    I also said since I dont have to work with him or in that environment, I'll be happy if it succeeds but you just turned that into something entirely different.

    Also thanks for reminding me I need to change my signature I forgot it was there. Signatures dont show on phone which is how I access the site.
     
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  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Flores also worked under BB for 15 years. BB doesn't seem to care what people think, he does it his way.
     
  10. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Re the previous Flores comments, I must have missed that Alex - apologies.
    It is interesting that you see him as overbearing, as every time you see him with the players, they love him - the other thing is that the players were not big fans of Shula's but he got them playing as a team & they were successful because they could see that his way worked whereas the previous regime failed. They love him now though (I'm not saying that he is going to be another Shula though) and as Resnor has said, Belicheck is the same, as I can't imagine his players love him but he gets them playing together, with the results to show.
    I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't like to work for someone like that either but in a sport where you have to have alpha-males, it is likely going to work better than someone worrying about gum wrappers on the pitch or wanting to rid the team of any leaders.
     
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  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I think he's referring to the coaches under him, not the players.
     
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  12. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Like Resnor said, I meant more overbearing with the staff than players.

    I recognize he did a good amount with not a lot to work with this year. I wanted him hired in the first place, soured some and came back around some.

    Like I said in another thread I think I'll have a better gut feeling one way or another about our direction after the FA and draft period.

    I'm not thrilled about the Gailey hire but it's done so I have to give him the chance to do well. I'm not convinced he will, but like i said I want us to succeed so I'm not actively rooting against anyone when I question things.
     
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  13. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ahhh, I got the wrong end of the stick, although I will be honest and say that I hadn't seen/thought that.
    As you said, we all want this to be a success
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    To argue the opposite, I think coaches in this league have to have some of that alpha-male ego to be successful. You have 50+ players, dozens of coaches and at least that many assistants, plus a front office and an owner...all who want to be heard and respected. To handle that many alphas you have to be a take-charge, no excuses type of person that holds everyone accountable. I would imagine that the job is almost impossible on good days and a nightmare on the bad ones....and that's IF everyone in the building works well together.

    Someone like Philbin that delegates everything and believes in a hands-off approach...I just don't see how that could work in the NFL without world-class assistants. As much as I respected him as a person, he just wasn't the right type of leader for the people in the room.
     
  15. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I dont necessarily think its good to be too far in either direction. I am a bit worried we may move too far to one side but it hasn't happened yet.

    It's more something I'm watching than saying is a problem right now.
     
  16. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Some people don't respond well to an authoritarian approach and I understand that but here's the side of the coin you're not looking at objectively Alex...

    The Dolphins have been a hot mess for years, stuck in mediocrity as an accepted outcome year after year. Flores is basically pulling a Patton when he arrive in Tunisia and took over the US Army II Corps. The US Army got their butts kicked badly by the Germans and the basic reason was a lack of discipline. They didn't look like solders, they didn't act like soldiers so they certainly weren't going to fight like soldiers.

    The Dolphins as a whole haven't looked like football players, they weren't acting like football players and as a result, they certainly weren't playing like football players. He shook up the tree and laid down the law, just like Patton. The one GOOD thing about this approach when you're trying to turn around an organization, if you do it Flores' way...do exactly what he wants, how he wants and when he wants, if it works, you begin winning. If it doesn't, there's no one to blame but Flores.

    I know you don't like this approach but leading men is a hard job and when you're trying to change a losing culture, you need a hard man to take charge. We've all admitted that Flores has done an incredible job with a group of nobodies. The culture in Miami has been set. Do your job or pack your bags.

    As a leader of men, I LIKE it!
     
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  17. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    My question is more if the style is sustainable. People have to want you as their leader. So far it's clear the players do.

    However, if you look at comments by players like Stills you see some of the issues players will have. In an interview he said he believes the last straw with the team was when he made a play in practice and pointed the ball at Flores. Flores was the one being antagonistic that practice by blasting Jay-Z at him, yet Stills gor under his skin by making a play apparantly in his own words.

    Obviously there are two sides to every story buuuut

    I find stories like that concerning because not everyone with talent is going to want to be part of a regiment.

    Basically what I'm saying is I hope he doesnt cross a line from successful discipline to unnecessary discipline. The takes no talent wall is another thing I'd find absolutely ridiculous as a player and stay away from when choosing a destination or being drafted.
     
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don't put much credence in what a player like Kenny Stills says. Granted he's a gifted receiver, but he's an individual out for himself...a prima dona who wanted attention rather than putting the team first. The Dolphins were sucking to the highest level of sucktivity and yet what does Stills make damn sure he does at the beginning of every game? Kneel for the national anthem.

    That in itself demonstrates to me you're not as focused on the game as you should be...and if you were, maybe you wouldn't have dropped some of the passes that Tannehill put right in your hands. You're on a team that sucks, you have a new head coach that's working to instill a culture of winning and you get butt sore because the coach hurt your feelings? Your feeling SHOULD be hurt. Bottom line, YOU suck and he didn't like that.

    Good riddance. I want TEAM players that WANT to be here and are willing to WORK their butts off...for the good of the TEAM!
     
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  19. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Stills has never been anything but a professional who's worked his butt off and helped his community at every stop.

    If he was an actual problem child I'd agree, but he isnt. Hes a solid representation of what an NFL player should be.
     
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  20. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don't want a social justice warrior...I want a warrior on the gridiron...and Stills' play has been mediocre at best.
     
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  21. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    His play has nothing to do with the situation. The issue is our HC made a point to act like a child by foing what he did in practice and then apparantly became upset when the player performed.

    That is slightly disturbing IF his story is true, which I dont claim to know either way.

    Also claiming hes been mediocre shows you have an agenda. He may not be an elite WR but hes better than anyone on this team not named Parker that is for sure.
     
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  22. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I have no agenda...I also have no patience for individualism in a team sport.

    And as for “better”, I’d take Parker, Williams, Grant and Wilson over stills any day of the week
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I thought there were also reports that it wasn’t Flores who had the music played? I liked it better when I was sure Flores did that. That sort of stuff was common between me and my buddies. Fitzpatrick, for instance, strikes me as someone who would think that was funny. That stuff was always a team bonding experience in high school.
     
  24. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wasn't Stills pretty much gone from the time he called out the owner though? Also, Stills was part of the old regime, so maybe he hadn't bought in as much as Parker, Williams, etc - he might have thought that because of his track record, he didn't have to? Just guessing really.
    Also, the TNT wall must have had an effect, as how many less stupid penalties were there this year over the Gase/Philbin years?
     
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  25. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I actually partially attribute the lack of penalties to less talented players who know they have to play for their job.

    I would attribute it to the coaching of Flores, but not the wall itself.
     
  26. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sorry, don't agree with all of that. I do agree with the coaching job that Flores has done & that players are playing for their jobs (it's not called the Not For Long league for nothing - most players on every team are playing for their jobs on a weekly basis) but imo, less talented players are more likely to cheat the snap because they know that they have to get off early in order to be on the front foot against a more talented player, which leads to more offside/false start penalties.

    I also feel that the TNT wall has played a part. If you are the player that continually false starts or goes offside, which means your unit keeps having to run to the wall, would you not start thinking that maybe you should not keep doing it as you are making yourself very unpopular within your unit (and probably would find yourself cut if you kept doing it)?
     
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  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I'd probably refuse to sign with a team that has the wall in the first place whether it was in FA or via draft.

    I'd also probably hold out if the wall was implemented after I'd signed.
     
  28. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    With great sacrifice comes great reward
     
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  29. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't waste resources on the classes of QBs for the next few years either. They are weak. Build the team and then find one. May be better off landing a veteran.
     
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  30. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Stills is a stand-up, honorable citizen. Football is virtually meaningless in comparison to the service Stills has done throughout his communities. I don't give a damn about football in relation to the things that NFL players do outside this silly game for the betterment of humanity.

    Now back to rambling about said child's game for cheap entertainment.
     
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  31. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yea, people who care about people suck
     
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  32. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But would you not consider it if it felt that it was a good place to play/potentially win something instead of going somewhere where the coaches don't care about the little things, as these teams are rarely successful?
    I bet the players that have played for BB up in NE have hated the discipline/approach but have stuck it out as they know that it works. I know it's easier for them to get these players to buy in after seeing the track record but there was no track record in his first few years and he still had very disciplined teams even then - I can't imagine that BB has changed his stance at all throughout his coaching career. I know that he didn't have a TNT wall but he must have had an equivalent punishment to install that level of discipline
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You would fit in well with the Browns
     
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  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I let myself get sidetracked and off topic. That topic can be discussed elsewhere. I don’t want the thread to get hijacked more than it already has but back to the topic at hand...

    After watching some of these bowl games, I really haven’t been impressed with the play of any of these QBs, save Burrow and getting him just isn’t going to happen.

    History has proven time and time again that the “elite” quarterbacks have, for the most part, walked on to ready made teams that was missing that one piece...the QB. Very rarely does a high drafted quarterback walk onto a team that’s a hot mess and turn it around.

    Montana, Elway, Manning are examples of who have but it took a lot of years to get there. If we pass on a QB this draft and build an overall GOOD team ready for a great QB to take us to the next level, I’d be ok with that.
     
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