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No QB in 2020? Grier Presser

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    You’re so dead set that Gailey is going to flop. You do realize that as an OC, Gailey has been VERY successful, don’t you?
     
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  2. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I've already profiled his career in another thread. Most of his success came early on before the year 2000, after that he was horribly inconsistent at every stop.

    His offense is out dated and I dont expect we will even average 17 ppg offensively next year.

    Plus, there was no reason to fire O'Shea. I'm worried Flores is building a dictator like culture. No-one worth their salt is going to want to take part in that, player or coach if this jettisoning of people for no reason continues.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  3. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    They would probably prefer Dolphins fans!
     
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  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don't really consider what you did as a "profile" of his career. Allow me to be a bit more detailed to paint a more accurate picture I if you will. Not an endorsement, not a condemnation...merely a more accurate portrait.

    Gailey was with the Steelers from 94-97, his first 2 years as the receivers coach and his final 2 as OC. Let's focus on his tenure as OC as he was the playcaller for the Steelers offense.

    In '96, the Steelers averaged 21.5 points per game during that season. While that seems a bit anemic, let's look a little closer.
    The Steelers scored 40 points of more in one game (1-0)
    The Steelers scored 30 or more points in 2 games (2-0)
    The Steelers scored 20 or more points in 6 games (5-1)
    The Steelers scored only 10 points of more in 6 games (2-4)
    The Steeler scored less than 10 points in 1 game (0-1)

    With the Steelers scoring 20 points or more, the Steelers were 8-1, when they scored less than 20 points, the Steelers were 2-5.

    The '97 Steelers averaged 23.25 points per game, almost a 2 point average increase.
    The Steelers scored 40 points or more in one game (1-0)
    The Steelers scored 30 or more points in 3 games (3-0)
    The Steelers scored 20 points of more in 8 games (6-2)
    The Steelers scored only 10 points or more in 2 games (1-1)
    The Steelers scored less than 10 points in 2 games (0-2)

    With the Steelers scoring 20 points or more, they were 10-2, when they scored less than 20 the Steelers were 1-3. This was pre-Roelthlisbuger and during the days of Kordell "Slash" Stewart...and was STILL able to accumulate a 21-11 record.

    In 1998, Gailey took the reigns of the Dallas Cowboys. He lost Troy Aikmen for 5 games during the season due to injury but during Gailey's 98 season, the Cowboys went 10-6.

    The Cowboys averaged 23.91 points per game, even without the future HoF quarterback for 5 games.
    The Cowboys scored 30 or more in 7 games (6-1)
    The Cowboys scored 20 points of more in 3 games (2-1)
    The Cowboys scored 10 points or more in 5 games (2-3)
    The Cowboys scored less than 10 points once (0-1)

    The '99 Cowboys were victims of an aging roster and lost Michael Irvin and Moose Johnston to season ending injuries. Jerry jones' ineptitude failed to replace his aging roster and the Cowboys averaged 23.69 points per game
    The Cowboys scored 40 or more points per game once (1-0)
    The Cowboys scored 30 or more points in 2 games (2-0)
    The Cowboys scored 20 points or more in 8 games (5-3)
    The Cowboys scored 10 points of more in 3 games (0-3)
    The Cowboys scored less than 10 points in 3 games (0-3)

    In 2000, Gailey returned to his OC position with the Miami Dolphins under Dave Wannstedt as HC. This was the first season of the post Marino era. During the 2000 season, the Dolphins went 11-5 and averaged 20.19 points per game.
    The Dolphins scored 30 or more points in 3 games (2-1)
    The Dolphins scored 20 or more points in 5 games (5-0)
    The Dolphins scored 10 or more points in 6 games (4-2)
    The Dolphins scored less than 10 points in 2 games (0-2)

    In 2001, the Dolphins went 11-5 and averaged 21.69 points
    The Dolphins scored 40 or more points in 1 game (1-0)
    The Dolphins scored 30 or more points in 4 games (4-0)
    The Dolphins scored 20 or more points in 5 games (5-0)
    The Dolphins scored 10 or more points in 4 games (1-4)
    The Dolphins scored less than 10 points in 2 games (0-2)

    So at this point in Gailey's tenure as OC/HC, his offensive record looks as follows (I'm pausing here because the wife is yelling at me to get moving lol)
    40 or more points; 3-0
    30 or more points; 22-1
    20 or more points; 28-7
    10 or more points; 10-17
    Less than 10 points; 0-11

    Bottom line is this...if Gailey's teams score 20 or more points, he's 53-8; less than that, he's 10-28 so with a Gailey offense, you have to score 20 or more points to have a successful season as far as wins/losses are concerned.

    The other side of that equation of course, is the defense...which I don't have time to go in to right now. Perhaps later.
    Happy New Year guys....PHINS UP!!!
     
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  5. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, I dont really care what he did before the or around the year 2000. The NFL is incredibly different.

    Also showing his teams win when they barely score says nothing about him. All it says is they often barely score and the defense bails him out.

    If you watched his tenure here it wasnt good like you're suggesting. The offense had much more talent than he got out of it, basically the same in all his stops after.

    There is nothing I can do about this incredibly awful hire, I just hope if it bombs Flores takes responsibility for the awful move of firing O'Shea
     
  6. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    The offense had more talent than he got out of it? ***WHAT***??????? Other than the loss of Marino, the offense was relatively the same personnel from the previous year...the team that LIMPED into the playoffs at 9-7 and got their butts shellacked by Jacksonville 62-7. Miami's talent was on defense with Taylor, Thomas, Madison and Surtain.

    And as for what you're saying you don't care about...well there's something you and others who share your opinion need to remember. Football is exactly like warfare...it's all about taking and holding real estate, bottom line.
     
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Let's think about this logically.

    Part 1: It is considerably more likely than not, that Gailey was only hired for a year (maybe two tops), based on the fact he was retired.
    Which leads to...


    Part 2: Since it is likely he's here for just a year, he's probably not here because fo the way he calls plays, otherwise they'd try to hire someone who will be likely to stay more than year.
    Which leads to...

    Part 3: Since it is likely he's not here because of his play calling prowess, then its more likely he's here to install an offense, so someone else can take the reins from him soon.

    Now again, I'm not saying all three parts are definitely true or anything, nor am I saying I love this move, but, if those are the most likely things happening here, then its likely not at all the end of the team some are making it out to be.

    Think of it like, you've hired him to build the kitchen but not necessarily cook in it.
     
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  8. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I think my main issue with that would just be his system generally.

    If I thought he was capable of building a nice kitchen sure. I just find it more likely his out dated philosophy and concepts will start a stove fire and burn the whole house down.
     
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  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    To be fair, what I've read is that his system is actually more like current college spread systems that teams are clamoring for now. We have a bunch of guys who only know the Pats system (which relies on a QB with 20 years of experience in that offense and a healthy dose of cheating with knowing the defenses signals and having the mic system stay on throughout the play).

    Again, it seems likely, this is a move to teach Schuplinski a new offense that he can fold into his repetorie for when he takes OC reins 2021 or so.
     
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  10. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    If they don’t get a franchise web or at least try to get a franchise an via trade or free agency or draft I’m going to lose it. Fitz shouldn’t be their answer we shouldn’t have won 5 games if we were targeting a qb. I u stay and that what Flores has done is wonderfully for team mentality and will help us going forward but this was the year we were supposed to tank to fix our QB situation 7-9 9-7 seasons are not what we’re asking to be patient for!

    I do not want fitz back as our starting QB backup he’ll yes but we need to get a qb!!
     
  11. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Even if all that is true, it's still an incredibly dick move to fire your OC you committed to in order to groom someone underneath him who you dont feel is ready for the job.

    I truly believe this staff is more akin to a dictatorship than a collective unit and that is troublesome IMO.
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    2-3 years ago, they thought they had the right QB. Flores changed everyone's minds, and he also happens to be the guy tasked with finding a QB almost exactly like Tannehill. It is absolutely a contradiction and my entire problem with the rebuild since we also have to find a player almost exactly like Wake, Tunsil, Minkah, etc....it's a very long list.
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How do I post the Jump To Conclusions mat from Office Space? Lol
     
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  14. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'm not holding that against them since almost everyone saw we needed to move on for both parties involved.

    I'm really happy for Tannehill and I always thought he had it in him, but I really do think regardless of what we did here it was better to move on and I'm not sure hed have been able to build that same confidence he has now back with the pressure we'd have put on him returning.

    I've been saying since the start I see causes for alarm though in the moves we made. I think most people here probably think I'm crazy but I do have serious concerns about our future.

    I accepted it when it seemed like the plan was to...you know, end up with a QB like Tua or Burrow but that NOT being part of the plan is deeply concerning when combined with the moves we made.
     
  15. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I mean, we have fired everyone and moved every player that seems to have even the slightest but of individuality or talent.

    Like I said, I'm worried about it. It doesnt mean it IS but it's a style I believe will fail.
     
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  16. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Then they were obviously wrong, just like they were wrong not to keep drafting QBs. Tannehill is a serviceable QB if you have a great running game and a very good defense, but he's not a star, not a Mahomes or a Brees or a Rodgers. If our aim was to win a Superbowl and not just make the playoffs every few years and get knocked out in the first round, then we should have kept drafting QBs in the first couple rounds once it became clear that Tannehill was not that sort of QB.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Our offense was objectively terrible under O’Shea. Way worse than the talent level.
     
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  18. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'd disagree with that. There isnt a single WR who got significant snaps other than Parker who would even be in the top 3 or maybe even 4 of most teams.

    We didnt have any ability to run the ball through no fault of his own.

    Our offensive line is a talentless void and he managed to run an offense that made Fitz look good despite all that.
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I do not agree with that at all
     
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  20. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Who then?
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Preston Williams.

    Albert Wilson was a 3rd/4th wide reciever before he was a Dolphin
    Hurns as well.
    Geseki would as well.
     
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  22. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I said that received significant snaps though.

    Williams and Wilson missed a lot of time. When Wilson was available he was used well and productive so I dont see how that can be used as a negative.

    Hurns I dont really agree. He is a fringe roster type WR. Yes there are some places he would see time but he is nowhere near ideal.

    Geseki or however it's spelled, I'd agree but again he took big steps forward how can that be used as a negative on O'shea?
     
  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Well that shows the depth of the receiving corps.

    The only NFL unit Miami had on the field this year
     
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  24. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    If you want to see it as that, that's fine because i do think it's definitely a valid way to see it.

    That said, I see it as a Coordinator who got a decent amount out of almost nothing.
     
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  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yea. I guess we see different things.
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're wrong. Tannehill turned Tennessee around. Henry wasn't beasting with Mariota. If Mariota had remained the starter, they wouldn't be in the playoffs. Tannehill had done everything people said he couldn't do.

    And let's not pretend like you haven't been against Tannehill since we drafted him.
     
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  27. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Rick, every quarterback needs a good running game and good defense to be successful. If you think the success of the Chiefs, Saints and Packers are the result of JUST Mahomes, Brees and Rodgers, then you missed a lot of football and looking at the game through rose colored glasses.
     
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  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Nobody makes the argument that it's not a team game and that having a good team doesn't matter. But the better your QB, the better your team, and the more sustainable that success is over long periods.

    Of the 4 guys mentioned - Rogers, Brees, THill and Mahomes - name who you would take as the starter for us next year. THill is maybe third, and that's only due to Brees' age.

    Dude balled in a way not many would have predicted, we gotta give him credit. He outplayed Mariota by leagues. Now, let's see if he can have a playoff drive and if he can replicate the success next year.
     
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  29. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Even the two losses under Tanny we were competive till the end of games, our oline and secondary were the reason for the two losses.

    Mariota was brutal and he was handicapping our offensive players like Henry, A.J Brown, Jonnu Smith, etc
     
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  30. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Tannehill didn't have to do much to turn them around. Basically, he just had to stop turning the ball over and get respectable numbers. He doesn't usually put up more than 250-300 yards in a game but he doesn't turn it over and take horrible sacks. And no, you're 100% wrong, I liked Tannehill when we drafted him. I didn't turn negative on him until about 4 years in when it became clear he was never going to be more than a slightly above average QB.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yet here he is, leading the league.
     
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  32. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Nope. Rodgers won a superbowl without a great defense or a running game. Brees has won a superbowl without a good running game. Brady won superbowls without a good running game. Hell, Brady won superbowls without much of an offensive line either. Mahomes' running game this year has not been great until the last couple games.
     
  33. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    An above average QB leading the league, I'll take that anyday. He's been one if not the best QB so far.
     
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  34. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yeah no, he's not and he hasn't. He's done a great job in part of a season. As opposed to what we saw for 7 years. Pardon me if I don't consider this his new normal just yet.
     
  35. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Wrong.

    Chris Ivory had 700 rushing yards that year, Pierre Thomas had another 200. Thats 900 combined from the two, Reggie Bush also had 150. So go ahead and add those numbers up.

    Their defense wasnt all that great but they led the league in creating turnovers.
     
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  36. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    1050 rushing yards as a team is NOT good. They add up to a bad running team. And a defense that creates turnovers but also allows a lot of points and yards isn't great either. You made my point for me, thanks.
     
  37. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    The Packers defense was ranked 2nd overall in the league.
    Brees had a ground attack with a 1-2 punch of Duece McAllister and Reggie Bush
    The Patriots? Their defenses were ranked in the top 5 in most of their appearances...and contrary to popular believe, had a top notched running game to compliment Brady.

    Sorry Rick, These quarterbacks didn't do it on their own...regardless of the mythological status bestowed on them.
     
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  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You're right about Rodgers and Brady w.r.t. the running game, but I wouldn't use Brees as an example. The rushing stat to use is rushing Y/A because rushing yards is confounded by teams in the lead running out the clock in the 4th quarter (statistically most of the difference in rushing yards between winning and losing teams is in the 4th quarter). And in 2009 the Saints were top 5 in rushing Y/A (and 6th in yards):
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2009/index.htm

    In any case, it's definitely true that there are quite a few SB winners that did not have a good running game. But the Saints did.
     
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  39. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Lmao. You're point isnt a valid one.

    You are dismissed.
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Respectable numbers? He's the top rated QB in the league.
     
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