Josh Rosen Thread (merged threads)

I mean what player was available that you wanted at the picks either before or after the saints trade? Im sure you didnt mean that they forfeit the pick and take no one instead of Rosen. What was the alternative?

 

At this point, it's a low risk, high reward move. If he plays lights out? Sweet. We get a steal and probably use that first pick somewhere else. If not, we draft his replacement. His contract is not even a large one.

 

Interesting OLine ratings for 2018 from PFF.

https://t.co/Z9smOe2gaH

 

off topic - I can't help it but when I look at Rosen I see the actor who plays the hilarious douchy character "Todd" on Wrecked. Which was frickin canceled a few days ago btw.

 

With the people saying we should have offered the cards a fourth or fifth round pick for Rosen. Remember we did have a GM who kept lowballing people on offers - Jeff Ireland - and we know how that worked out. The NFL is not like a carnival. The people you are dealing with aren’t rubes who you’ll never see again. You need a reservoir of good will when you’re doing repeat deals. If we’d stuck to the idea of using our leverage to screw the Cards down, well there’s not so many teams willing to spend a 2nd round pick on a potential starter, but there’s a lot of teams willing to spend a 3rd on a backup, and once you get into the 4th then that’s basically what the phins got for Tannehill. A whole bunch of teams would be willing to try their luck on Rosen as a backup at that price.

Treating the cards as if we were the only team interested and we’re doing them a favor by taking Rosen off their hands is exactly what Jeff Ireland would do.

I really don’t see Rosen lasting untraded all the way through the third round. But if it did happen then there’s a whole bunch of teams who’d willingly trade up ahead of the phins to get Rosen for a 4th. As the price lowers the number of people interested increases.

Best course of action is to make the reasonable deal. It sends the signal that if other teams have a reasonable trade that they can pick up the phone and call Grier. Trading back from 48 to 62 then trading 62 for Rosen also send a message that Grier isn’t a soft touch.

I remain unsold on Rosen. But in terms of negotiations Grier did a very good job. He got what he wanted, he didn’t overpay and he sent a message to the league that he is no Tannenbaum.

 

Think it's a great move tbh - cheap & a decent pick next year. Also, as has been said previously, there is still no guarantee that Tua comes out next year anyhow (due to his family being keen that he finishes school), so if people aren't that hot on Fromm or Herbert, we would have had to wait until 2021.

 

Sorry I missed this thread until now. I've been focused on the posts in club. But many of you know how I feel about Rosen.

I fell in love with him during his Jr season at UCLA. He does just about everything exactly the way that I want my QB to handle it. Physically, he could stand to add some weight and strength, but otherwise his size is very good, and his mechanics are impeccible. As a pure passer (which is basically all I care about) he's as good of a prospect as anyone who's come out in years. I said a year ago that from 2005 to present, the only QB that I was higher on coming into the draft was Luck.

To say that I'm elated would be understating how I feel. For me, this is the best thing to happen to the Dolphins in the years since Marino retired, and I have more hope than I have at any point in the last 15 years at least. Rosen is immediately the second best QB in the division, though over time I think we'll have fun with the battles with the Jets as he and Darnold both show what they can do. Once Brady is gone, Rosen should be the class of the East, and he'll only be about 25 years old at that point, maybe younger! There is so much to look forward to now! And we can use the 2020 draft haul to fill so many other needs on the team now that we have our QB.

 

Here's one SI writer's take on our options with Rosen:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/26/josh-rosen-trade-cardinals-dolphins-steve-keim-nfl-draft

This is how I see it too.

 

Exactly. I mean, I don't understand people's thought process here.

 

People are legitimately afraid, that we won't do those things because past FO's didn't cut bait with Thill.

I just don't think we can hold the current staff responsible for actions taken with the previous staff. I believe the fact that we set up 202 like we have means we are going to do one fo those three options and will give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove I shouldn't.

 

Does anyone honestly believe that second round pick was integral to our rebuild? So much so that taking a shot at a talented young QB was a bad idea?

I really cant understand the logic of not taking a chance at a QB when people have been screaming for it.

We got what IMO would be the best QB in this draft easily. I'm not a fan of Murray but even if you want to say you'd take him, the second best.

 

It is because they wanted a different player....like every draft. The fact that pick was used as a trade and for polarizing QB no less, just weaponizes that anger.

Its not justified, but there it is regardless.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about Rosen. He has all the physical tools, and yes he played on a horrible team last year, but he looked so bad himself at times last year. I'm hoping the 'Phins new coaching staff can turn it around for him because if they can get his head on right...man, he will be one of the best QB's in the league. I think they should let him sit behind Fitz this year, come in for clean up duty or if the Dolphins are getting beaten badly, but otherwise wait until next year and hopefully they can have a decent O-Line for the kid. He just turned 22 in February so he's got time to learn. If he looks bad next year?

Come on down Lawrence!

 

Great trade. What this gives the team the opportunity to do is have a QB on a rookie contract, who, because of the trade, soaks up even less of the salary cap than he otherwise would, thus presenting the team with the possibility of having a great QB and lots of cap room to surround him with other talent. There are few teams in the league who are in this position, and the ones who are usually play very well.

 

I'm legitimately surprised at how much reaction there is to what the Dolphins gave up as opposed to what they got.

I don't love Josh Rosen but considering the value of QBs in the NFL, I make this trade all day long to add an incredible talent to my QB room. This guy was the #10 overall pick last year and has every physical ability now that he did then. It's not like he's coming off an ACL or something. He went 3-13 and his offense sucked for a million reasons. Big whoop.

The team passed on Haskins so evidently he wasn't the guy for them. Grier then had a chance to survey the board in R2 and evidently considered Rosen a more attractive alternative to what was there. He was able to nab a R1 QB prospect with a year under his belt and with real upside for a late R2 pick.

To me, that's a trade you make all day long. I understand there are fans that were dreaming of Murray, Haskins or some future guy but when you consider the massive uncertainty surrounding every single QB prospect it seems logical to try and get as many realistic shots as you can.

Rosen is a realistic shot at finding a franchise guy...just as much as Murray, Haskins or Lock would've been. Tagovailoa, Fromm and all the others are still out there as well.

But man, this team has to find a QB and if you can collect Josh Rosen for the #62 pick, it only makes sense to do it.

Some of you guys need to stop being so picky and understand the big picture. It's not all about zooming in on one guy and obsessing about just him.

Regardless of who you might think of as your favorite, collecting Rosen and adding him into the mix makes a lot of good sense.

 

Surprising and interesting thing I just read in my old 2018 Lindy's draft magazine about Rosen, "NFL Comparison: Hall of Fame's Dan Marino, Dolphins-Comparing anyone to arguably the greatest NFL passer in NFL history is obviously lofty praise, but Rosen's quick release, velocity and ball placement on passes to all areas of the field are exceedingly rare. Off-field questions and lack of preferred mobility pushed Marino down the board to No. 27 overall back in 1983. Rosen comes with similar concerns. Although he won't fall that far, a draft day drop is possible, despite his undeniable talent".

I didn't catch that last year and was surprised to see it this year. It's strange, but for some reason when we were selecting at 13, I felt like this was going to be a lucky draft for us. I know we took Wilkins at 13, but we did manage to get Rosen, so who knows, maybe things are starting to turn around for our franchise. :-)

Note: Not saying Lindy's is the end-all-be-all when it comes to draft evaluations. They have an opinion and just like everybody else I try to take them with a grain of salt.

 

Here's a really good break down of Rosen's rookie season:

 

There's a Josh Rosen presser scheduled for 1 PM EST today.

 

I don't think you can let him sit all season. Really, you've got to see what what you have. Even if the oline is not great, you should still have Rosen out there, as if he can't handle the pressure, we've got to quickly move on. Ideally you'd have that answer this season, and not have to wait for two years to see if Rosen can be the answer.

 

"It might end up being smarter to use all those picks and the $120 million in salary cap available to build around Rosen. We'll just have to see how things go. With a total lack of pass rush, we ought to give up a lot of points and as such we'll likely (1) lose a lot of games and (2) get to see a lot of what Rosen can do as the offense is forced to stay aggressive."

This is one of the most valid points written. Our offensive line is more of an offense to our team than to anyone else - and we have only drafted one lineman this year. If we can pick up a couple of good - very good vets with part of that 120 million, and draft next year to fill in some of the blank files - so much the better. We also need defensive linemen. [ I know... I'm sounding like a broken record - but when is the last time the 'Phins had a GOOD line to go along with a good quarterback for a good coach?] 'Twas back in the last century - if memory serves. And this rebuild will take more time than we expect even now! We better hope the brain trust upstairs is good at drafting and discerning the players from the pretenders. There may be some improvement in the next year, but this transformation is just beginning, and it probably will take a couple of years more before we can stand eyeball to eyeball with New England and not blink (even with that Ancient Pelican playing quarterback!) And that is just the beginning.

 

I'm going out on a limb and say that I think Josh Rosen probably just doesn't enjoy cliche answers and that in an NFL world where you're only allowed to give those kind of responses it can sometimes make him appear a weird combination of both overly-confident and unprepared.

Just by comparison, Tannehill seemed to be able to make it through his pressers without flinching. Something about Rosen makes me think he's trying to avoid sinking to the level of "player-speak." I think he wants to be real with people but he's really unsure of what he's allowed to say and divulge.

He's undoubtedly got perspective, but at the same time he's not the best guy at the mic either. I think it would do him good if he thought out his responses a little bit so he didn't come off as unprepared. There are a lot of hesitations and "...ugh..." moments in his responses where he's trying to be honest but phrase it carefully.

There are guys with the gift of gab that can be honest and not hurt feelings. Josh Rosen however, is probably not that guy. Like 99% of people, he needs to measure what he says in front of the mic.

I see a guy up there who's being forced to answer a lot of predictable and somewhat insulting questions using the kind of verbiage he probably feels is beneath him.

I think he says too much for his own good. He's probably too honest up there. He'll learn. I think within a year he'll hate the media as much as any good player.

The media is not going to be nice to any young player who gives honest answers. They want the most humble of humble. Anything less is somehow out of line.

I can see it being awkward for a guy like Rosen.

 

Agree with almost everything. He definitely is not a smooth operator with the press - you can almost see him struggling to field inane questions and not say what he really wants to say. He is obviously a smart guy who considers things in a different way than your stereotypical imbecile football player. The past few days have been a whirlwind for him, he was just hitting homeruns in Arizona last night, now he has to fly to Miami and face one of the most low-rent, anti-intellectual sports media in the country - that is a tall order. I can see how his style may rub some the wrong way - a mix of new-age social media upbringing, being highly intelligent, coming from a well-off background, a bit socially awkward...it is definitely a unique package. At the end of the day, little of it will matter if he balls out. No one that matters will care how he answers questions. if he ever solidifies himself as a big time starter, I am sure he is going to royally mind-fukc the press.

 

I see the same thing and see it as extremely positive. He's a very smart guy, who could give very good, insightful answers to questions that are asked of him. I would love to be able to get full honesty. But because of the world that we live in, we aren't allowed to have that. Its a shame.

But give me a very smart player who has to bite his tongue over a dumb one who can't do more than recite what he's told any day of the week. Those are the pressers that drive me nuts, when it doesn't seem like the player could even come up with the standard non-answers on his own without help.

 

But because of the TWO TRADES, we didn't lose that pick...we only delayed it and possibly made it even more valuable (if we actually suck this year). There really is no downside to this unless you somehow believe picking in the 2nd this season would have moved us from a 3-13 team with Fitzpatrick to an 11-5 team.

Who that player could be....I couldn't imagine. Nobody in the draft had the potential impact that Rosen could make this season....maybe only Kyler Murray?

 

Yeah, I like the guy. I can relate to his situation a little bit as I'm sure a lot of us can. Part of hitting the working world is learning to speak appropriately. As you two said, I very much see a child of social media. You can see in his patchwork answers and his strung-out sentences.

Communication involves a real sense of the value of words. Knowing your audience is also key. Communicating effectively is a skill just like any other. Phraseology is an art. Having a high IQ is one thing. Being able to find the right words in a difficult moment is something altogether different.

Point being, you can't just assume you're good at it because you're otherwise intelligent. You will say something you ultimately regret and you'll probably end up apologizing for a bunch of stuff you didn't mean to say in the way you did. And after the 10th apology you'll start feeling bitter and jaded.

I'm polite...I'm honest...why don't people respect that and like me!?

His comment about "not needing to sell drugs" is just so on the nose for instance. There's no reason to put such a weird image in people's heads. It's such an extreme example that it gives away the fact he hasn't really thought it through. I cringe just hearing that...there are so many bad connotations with that image....moral condemnations, racial stuff, wealth inequality, etc. Let's just not go there.

If I'm in his corner coaching him, he's got to avoid phrases like that. You represent all of your teammates when you're up there and quite frankly that kind of phrase is like a pick-6. You can do a lot of good and then erase it with one poor throw.

He can tighten a lot of that up. He just needs to hear himself and to be coached up on it. A little practice goes a long way. He needs to be happy with giving more routine answers. Not every question warrants a "real" answer despite the fact the he probably fields every question as though it were so.

If he gives 1 real answer for every 9 cliche responses I think he's doing as much as he needs to. Just seems he's going too far in an effort to engage as though it were a personal conversation, which of course, it isn't.

 

Honestly...I think it's kind of ridiculous to even ask people questions if they arent allowed to give real answers.

What is the point in the first place?

 

I agree that coaching is very important. The thing to remember is that for the last 7 years the results show that our OL coaching has been plainly and clearly inadequate. If we can get NFL competent level of coaching we should improve upon last year.

 

The biggest weaknesses I’m seeing in him as far as being a pro goes, is not being able to dictate his own personal tempo to the defense..he’s not committed..He’s playing the game 90 percent of the time out of rhythm.

Basically the speed is so fast he can’t multitask..

Obviously bad coaching, bad oline, bad skill players compounds it..Or some might think it’s the direct cause..

It’s not easy.