There's also the very real possibility that Brady isn't that good at reading anything...he's got Ernie in his ear calling out coverages pre and post snap. I mean, with all the rumors and stories out there, it would be nice to not come on a Dolphins site and see posts continuously giving Brady the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not sure that it will ever end. We have members who like Brady and praise him more than they ever have our own guys. Shrines will likely be erected to him by some of them when he retires.
I don't disagree AT ALL...but a great line is a trait that almost every recent HOF QB had in his pocket. That's not a coincidence. If RT is a 92 QB behind a sometimes decent line, he'd obviously be better behind a good one (especially since we all know his main problem is the pocket). That's not to praise or bash the guy....it's just a statement that a team with a good line can win consistently with him.
I completely agree. One second of protection is a lifetime for NFL QB's....it's the difference between a sack and a 50 yard bomb. I've always felt that rating a QB without looking at the pieces around him is fool's fold. Although Brady has never had truly elite receivers, he's never needed them with a quick release and a competent line. I mean, look at Marino. I've talked to him a hundred times when I was a teen and caught a few passes from him. He was NEVER a mobile guy....he was ALWAYS the slowest guy on the field. The team even fined him every time he ran when it wasn't a designed play....that's how much they wanted his arm in the pocket. You give Marino our current 3rd string line in his prime and he turns into Chad Pennington...which isn't a bad thing. But he's definitely not the same QB we all remember without that protection. And PS- he's the real GOAT!
And we have a bunch of Stans who's hate knows no bounds. I imagine they average at least 5 hate tweets a day at the man, even after he retires. I can't speak for everyone, but my respect for great players isn't naively bound to the jersey colors of my own squad. He'll never even come close to the respect I have for Marino though.
Tannehill was in the league 7 years, let him adjust to the speed somewhere else, maybe in the AAF league.
And you can't understand, it's not about him playing for a team other than the Dolphins. Asking why Dolphins fans give Brady the benefit of the doubt, or straight argue about their cheating, is not "hating" on the guy. If there were no allegations or actual founded instances of cheating, and Brady had the same career he's had, I'd argue he was the GOAT. But not with all confirmed cheating, and the many more rumors of cheating.
Even without being on the vile Patriots, and even without the cheating, brady would be nowhere near the top of my QB list. Hes today's Joe Montana, propped up by team success.
His own backup QB let the mouse out about the extra speaker in his helmet. It's like playing team Spades and you can see your partner's hand.
I agree with this entirely, but also have to say there is nothing wrong with being Joe Montana. Still a great QB.
I think my preference right now, if I have to choose one QB, is Tua. Don't know enough about Lawrence. If neither Tua nor Lawrence aren't there in 2020, do we wait for 2021? Maybe, if there's no one better...
Thought so but wasn't sure. Either way, I was thinking in terms of choosing one target for QB, no matter when he's available. There seem to be a lot of people talking him up - would they want to wait that long? Not to mention there's a lot of football to play between now and then. That's actually something I think will be good for getting past some of this hype. There's at least one more year for Tua, so he has a chance to prove who he is (or not).
Do you really want to put those two thoughts together. Read it again. "Brady's football IQ and a functioning O-line" and the idea that Tannehill "looked good when the pocket was clean." Would not Tannehill's football IQ be somewhat higher if the defensive linemen were not converging on him at about the same moment as he stepped back into the [ahem] "pocket????" One wonders how much better Tannehill would look if the Dolphin's offensive line were not so "offensive" and actually played somewhere approaching the capability of the New England line. Would there even be a discussion about changing QBs if there were somewhere approaching 'average' line play instead of 'lookout' play (Lookout, here he comes!!) I would suggest that Tannehill's lack of football IQ is directly proportional to the lack of time he has to find a pocket and scan to see who is where in their route and how covered are they before the defensive line 'breaker' crashes around him. Oh, and having some more capable receivers would not hurt either. To me - it all comes back to the offensive line. If the O-line is good, the team is better. If they are not - in the words of my old coach "They ain't goin' nowhere!"
It's more than base offensive line talent though. It's his regression and lack of anticipation against the blitz and his adjustments pre snap that also got him into trouble, IMO.
But how do you upgrade the 12th-16th best QB in the league who played behind a bad line? That's the two parts people keep missing- 1) On the rare occasions we've seen RT behind a competent line, RT is a top-10 QB (often top 3-5). 2) For the next QB to be better than RT, he's going to have to be one of the best in the league to fall in the top 10 overall with our current line (maybe not week 1...but the mess we always end up with by week 8) This has never been a QB discussion- it's all about fixing the line the right way. That not only means getting the right young players but also the proper coaching to ensure they play as a single unit. It also means continually developing the line in the later rounds so we have a group of 7-10 solid guys, which means we need scouts that know linemen as well. If you want a QB better than Tannehill, it's going to take dozens of the right people to make that a reality. And again, I'm no longer a fan of Ryan Tannehill. But I am enough of a realist to see that we've pissed away what he does well by putting him in the worst possible situation for his skill-set. Poor pocket presence + poor blitz awareness + a poor line should not equal 12th-20th in the league unless that QB is freaking AMAZING in other areas.
I'm with you, Key. A lot of people seem to think that we need to just somehow find a top 5 QB, and then things will be awesome, no matter what we have around him. But the smarter plan is to build the line up first, because if the OL is garbage, then everything else is going to be negatively effected. The QB, WRs, RBs and everyone else will struggle until its fixed. I'll take the 12th best QB and a top 5 OL over a top 5 QB and a bottom 5 OL every time.
But that IS all we need. Just an elite QB. The rest can be a bunch of 5 year olds, he'll still find a way to win!
Oh guys. C'mon. Please. Man, there's a lot of you guys I really like, but the Brady/Tannehill thing again? Please, it is time to stop. Really, it's kind of sad. It's like you are a little kid on meth trying to play pick up sticks. Seriously, just take a mental laxative and let the s--t go. I know. I know. I can't stand that Brady f'er as well, but man.....yeah yeah....the OL. Ok. Ok.
I don't think finding the right quarterback and building the offensive line are mutually exclusive, nor do I think one has to be accomplished in a year's time. They can be built simultaenously.
Of course your argument conveniently leaves out his natural feel for the pocket and inability to process the game the same way Brady does. The O-line has played a big role in this team's struggles, but Tanny has a role in it as well. That's why he was considered a project. All the blame going to the O-line is typical. If you talked to the average Dolphin fan you'd think every single play defensive lineman were on him in 1.5 seconds.
Because they were. Putting my feelings about Tannehill aside, assuming that we trade/cut Tannehill and he's replaced by Murray or whoever the FO may feel is going to be our franchise QB, that QB is going to face the same trouble Tannehill face.
Here's the problem with that- we have 16 games to play in 9 months. No matter who our starting QB is, he's definitely not going to be as tough as Tannehill when it comes to getting laid out over and over again. So no matter who that QB is, we're not going to be able to properly evaluate him before he's on IR. Want proof? Look no further than Moore or Cutler....neither one made it six games before being knocked out. And we played it so safe with Oz that we basically had zero chance of winning. I agree that fixing the line and the QB are not mutually exclusive, but we really need that line in place sooner rather than later. In fact, it's 10 years overdue. And the last thing I want is a 1st round QB in 2019, see a top 15 type QB get his *** stomped, then have this exact same conversation in 12 months about why we need to spend another 1st round pick on a QB. Want proof there? Tannehill is clearly good enough to be the starter in Miami, yet the perception is that we have to replace him now since he can't handle getting hit by unblocked defenders. That's a ******ed point of view folks....no QB thrives in that type of situation and I really don't want to keep repeating history. I'm all for drafting a 1st round QB this season or next, but I also want to give that person every possible opportunity to succeed.
I don't care. Im not willing to tank for anyone. I don't want any part of a team that agrees to that. Sure hope our coach doesn't believe in this either.
Find the right QB and you can win a SB with a bad OL. Cue Russell Wilson. Put that guy behind our line and we suddenly have no "OL problems" lol. Really, the quickest way to solve both QB and OL issues is to find a good QB that's also highly mobile. It's one reason Kyler Murray is so interesting. It's also a reason some of the 2020 QB prospects might be our solution to both problems.
It absolutely cant be accomplished in one year, of course. It would likely take at least three. But I do believe that most QBs will struggle, and ultimately fail, if put behind one of the worst OLs in the league. And that's what we've been trying for ages.
It does, and it limits you to sandlot football, even if you have a great running game. I'd really rather not have to go down that road of desperation.
Of course.. but in a conversation about only QB vs. OL we should aim for a mobile QB because we have a poor record in building a good OL and it would take more resources to build both up if we draft a pocket passer with limited mobility.
Im saying this is a real possible deal that could be made. Taken from Miami Herald article, but id do it in a heartbeat for the #8 pick. The danger spot for Miami could be Jacksonville picking seventh, as the Jaguars want to upgrade from Blake Bortles as much or moire than the Dolphins want better than Ryan Tannehill. (How about the two teams swap top picks, with the Dolphins throwing in Tannehill?)
What this isnt 1970.. Patrick Mahomes, Russel Wilson, Deshawn Watson, and many more good quaterbacks are mobile threats.. the Leauge has changed man.
Are they all available to be drafted? What I mean is instead of scouting 5 viable prospects, you may limit yourself to two mobile QB options that may or may not be as good. Has nothing to do with the offense itself. In other words if it's a mobile QB great, but we should want the best QB available.