So its the defense that got them where they are? So during Marinos career, when we had horrible defenses, how did we ever get to the playoffs and a few championship games? Good qb play elevates the rest of the team. We havevt had good qb play in almost 20 years. You can post qb ratings all you want but those 3 guys played well enough to get their teams where they are now. Tannehill may have a better rating, yet he's never been in a play off game.
Yes, I think we'd make the playoffs with anyone of them. We were close in a lot of games this year. They might have been the difference. As far as their teams making the playoffs with Tannehill, who knows. He hasn't shown the ability to lift a team up and carry them yet. At worst, those guys are just as good as Tannehill, with less experience.
Are you insinuating that these guys are as good as Marino? Very few QB's in the history of the NFL have been able to carry bad teams into the playoffs. In fact, over the last 18 seasons or so only P. Manning and Rodgers have been able to do it. (Brees also to an extent.) No one in AFC/NFC Championship games have "carried" their teams. Now, Brady anf Keenum have played well, but when Keenum has played on average teams he sucks. When Brady has played on average teams he does OK, but he wins 10 games at most. None of these QB's have 'elevated' their teams.
Jacksonville is 5th offensively Philadelphia is 3rd offensively Minnesota is 10th offensively Miami is 28th. Last year they were 17 and in 2015, they were 27th. See the difference
Of course not. You insinuated that the only reason they are where they are at is because of the defense. I was just saying that you don't necessarily need a good defense if you have a good qb.
Good rebuttal. What has Tannehill shown you that would make you think he could lead them to the championship games.
Name the time a team had a bad defense and made it to the Super Bowl when a Manning, Brees, or Rodgers wasn't the QB.
How can anyone argue Bortles is better than Tannehill?? If you're going by stats, the difference is huge. By passer rating Bortles has a 69.5, 88.2, 78.8, 84.7 in the last 4 years while Tannehill has a 76.1, 81.7, 92.8, 88.7 and 93.5 in his 5 years. Basically all you can say is Bortles did better in his second year but otherwise there's no comparison: Tannehill > Bortles. And why is Jacksonville ranked so high in points scored this year? Clearly not Bortles. They have the #1 ranked rushing offense by yards per game and #7 by yards per carry. Compare that to Bortles being ranked #20 by passer rating. So Jacksonville is where they are because of their #2 ranked defense and top ranked running game, NOT Bortles. As for the other QB's, yes Wentz and Keenum played better this year than Tannehill ever did in a year. But Keenum has a combined 78.35 rating over his career BEFORE this year (2013-2016) where the league average passer rating was 86.8 so the guy has been a bottom tier QB before this year. Really hard to suggest he's somehow turned a corner and will be top 10 QB from now on (he's #7 this year). Wentz is maybe the only starting QB there where it does look like he might be consistently better than Tannehill.. we'll see though.. it's still early.
It wasn't my intent to demean Eli Manning. He's no Marino, Elway, Favre, Brady or big brother Peyton but what he lacks in those greats' abilities, he makes up for WHEN he plays competently and a lot of his success is attributed to the man running things in Jacksonville.
7th best defense in the league. (I see someone brought up Atlanta last year....I forgot how bad that defense played last season...good job. Any other years?)
Good catch..I forgot about them last season. lol However, they are clearly an outlier. Look at the defenses for most of the Super Bowls and then look at their QB's.
Not sure Eli will get into the HoF. Someone is going to make a good argument that you should adjust stats for era, and when you do Eli isn't that impressive. His passer rating was above league average in exactly HALF his 14 years for example.
If Namath got in due to 1 Super Bowl win Eli will get in with 2. And that's only because the powers that be rate SB wins so high. I don't think there's one QB with 2 Super Bowl wins not in the HoF.
They aren't an outlier because Ryan played like an elite QB last year.. very unlike the above average but not elite QB he usually is. So you just need to say "bad defense without a QB that played like an elite QB that year" and there aren't many exceptions.
Dang..I actually thought he got in a few years back. It's funny because when I wrote that his name popped into my head. lol
To be fair, 16 of the last 20 super bowl winners had a HOF quarterback. The only 4 who have won that aren't HOF or HOF bound are Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, and Russell Wilson. And, Russell Wilson may end up a HOF quarterback when its all said and done. In other words, you need a HISTORIC DEFENSE like Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, and Russell Wilson had. Or, you need a HOF quarterback. Which one is easier for the Phins to get? Do you think Tannehill is a HOF type quarterback?
Having a HoF QB of course makes the job easier. Having a HoF QB and great defense makes it even easier than that. However, was it the defense or the QB that made these teams SB winners? For example, when Warner (Who I don't think should be in the HoF) was playing for the Rams he had the 4th, 31st, and 7th ranked defenses. Guess which two times the Rams went to the Super Bowl? Even Big Ben had the number 1 ranked defenses both times during his 2 SB wins. Brady has had 2 years where he played on teams with below average defenses. The Pats went 9-7 and 10-6 in those years.
Jax D vs Vikings D would be an epic SB. Atlanta's defense in '16 greatly improved after their bye week only allowing around 20 PPG. Yards given is pretty meaningless.
No one wins a SB without a top defense. I don't care who your QB is. Tannehill is more than capable if we can focus on building the team.
7th huh? Could have fooled me. That defense couldn't stop anyone. William Judson and Paul Lankford were the worst corners I've ever seen.
Eli isn't yet in the HoF. Actually.. 2007 might become that "exception" because Eli wasn't that good in the regular season. Giants were #14 by points scored, #17 by points allowed, and Eli was ranked #25 among starting QB's by passer rating. It's only in the playoffs that Eli played well.. but really only in 2 of 4 games.
Umm.. 2006 season Indy with Peyton Manning won the SB with the 23rd ranked defense by points allowed.
These are the Pats defensive rankings since 2001: I haven't checked, but I doubt any other team during this span has had this level of consistent great defense play. Add in the cheating and you get 7 SB appearances with 5 wins.
SF from 1981-1998 was better. Did the analysis here: https://thephins.com/threads/great-...ed-to-do-to-win-offseason.92563/#post-3026205
And again why I've always said that Montana was great, but never carried the 49ers. And no cheating you only get 4 Super Bowl appearances. lol
The exception there being that Manning is the best QB of all time and that they stepped up their postseason performance by only allowing 16 PPG. Another exception might be the '12 Ravens, although their defense also rose to the occasion and was lead by future HOF'ers Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. It's a very rare occurrence where a team can win a championship without a top D.
Right. So a mediocre qb that played for some other team that never won a playoff game would be someone who you would say is a good qb? I guess you go around telling everyone how good you think kirk cousins is. C'mon man
Only 4 super bowls in the last 25 years had a winner scoring less than 23 points in the super bowl. I used 23 points because 22.7 PPG is the best scoring average a Tannehill offense has averaged for a season. In other words, you gotta score to win. Can a Tannehill-led offense give us more than 23 ppg....I don't know. I haven't seen it yet.
@canesz06 you believe in the #QBwinz theory. That's all I need to know to dismiss any inkling of having an intelligent football conversation with you.