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***Official All Things Tannehill Thread***

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin D, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, there were so many people on the forums who were irate that we didn't get one of those guys.
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not Flynn. A few of us (including me) were calling fools gold on Flynn. All you had to do was watch his one game.
     
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  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Fair enough.

    Nick Folk, on the other hand, was anointed by a lot of people as one of the next best things.
     
  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yea he had a bunch of people fooled.
     
  5. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    “Led us to the playoffs”

    Ya know I think that is fair.

    But what if someone said “Ryan led us to 8-8, 7-9” in years past......would you have a problem with that? Or would you say W/L isn’t a Qb stat??
     
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I was strongly against all of these "one year wonder" QB's because you didn't know why they looked so good- they were in excellent systems with a lot of other complimentary components. Osweiler falls into that camp as well.

    I think the only player I would have taken like that is Jimmy G, but (1) we clearly couldn't afford him and (2) Belichick never would have traded him to us in a million years. I think I'm officially rooting for the 49ers next year though because of the trade (and to spite Kaepernick).
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I was merely applying someone else's criteria. Wasn't saying it was my belief or criteria.
     
  8. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    How do you feel about it?

    To me? It is like many of situations, there is likely more to it.

    I think it is largely a very blanket statement for anyone to say he led us to 7-9 or he led us to the playoffs.

    However, in my opinion (I have no hard evidence to share) he was very instrumental in leaving us at 8-6 before the knee.
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't like people attributing overall record to the QB, unless it's obvious that the QB is clearly terrible.
     
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  10. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    but didn't Wilson make the pro bowl? exactly!!! if we have 3 wins and he has a pro bowl then your on to something, however RT will never make the probowl, so this conversation is over. the w/l is on the qb unless the team is so depleted as in seattle and even in that case he almost got them there. RT with a fully healthy team will still be struggling to make the wild card.
     
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  11. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    when teams win the qb gets the credit, when they lose its the qb that's just how it goes. You cant give praise and not faults that's why the qb position is the most important, that guys has to be mentally and physically strong, Theres a reason the nfl makes rules to protect them its the most important position in football.
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I don't know why this "W/L is a QB stat" debate has to persist.

    Look.. if X% of win% is due to the QB, then win% is to X% a QB stat. The QB is the most important player in football, so "X" is not tiny (I once estimated it to be around 15%). Point is.. win% gives you SOME information about every player that contributed to win%, including the QB. And with large sample size, even a 15% influence will show up pretty strongly in a correlation.

    And that's exactly what you see. Just look at the top QB's (in your mind) in history and guess what? Win% is highly correlated with most people's personal rankings of QB's. That's no accident. So YES win% provides information about QB play and can be used as one of many stats to measure QB ability. To suggest otherwise is to say the QB has no influence on win%.
     
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  14. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's how it goes does not make it right. So people who draft QB's should draft ones from College with winning records? Do QB's in bad divisions with weaker teams get a pass? It is a different world than it was in the past. QB is still extremely important, but going by wins and losses and dismissing other factors is weak and lazy. Good QB's have bad records. Bad QB's have good records. How do you explain that? Surrounding players make a huge difference, sometimes even HOF QB's can't change that.
     
  15. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    for once an intelligent comeback. Oh by the way the great year you seem to think RT had last yr we still needed 3 of 4 when he got hurt to get into the last playoffs spot. just reminding you.
     
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  16. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    explain a bad qb with a good record? yr by yr yes I get what your saying a qb has down years and good years, but good qbs don't usually have bad records heres a few:

    dan marino 155-103
    brett favre 199-123
    tom brady 221-64
    Russell wislon 73-34
    jim Kelly 110-67
    tony romo 80-53
    RT 37-40
    randall Cunningham 85-58
    joe flacco 102-67

    just a few with rt in there, good qbs win games its simple math I understand w/l records aren't a direct correlation to a qbs game for many variables, but to say w/l records aren't good to determine qbs is a stretch good qbs win games that's just simple.
     
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  17. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Nowadays pro bowls mean squat. It's a popularity contest. All Pro's are a good way of judging individual players.
     
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  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Look, you tell me Wilson, one of the best QBs in awhile can't overcome a depleted team to get the playoffs this year....but you judge Thill even though his teams have consistently been worse than what Wilson played with this year....and then you try and pretend your stance is intelligent?

    Puhleaze.
     
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  19. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Nice cherries you picked there.

    Were/Are any of these QB's better than RT? Most were under or just above .500 and yet won Super Bowls. Why?

    Jim Plunket (2x Super Bowl winner) 72-72

    Trent Dilfer (Super Bowl Winner) 58-55

    Brad Johnson (Super Bowl winner) 72-53

    Doug Williams (Super Bowl winner) 38-42

    Joe Namath (Super Bowl winner) 62-63

    Eli Manning (2x Super Bowl winner) 111-103
     
  20. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I picked great qb's which everyone is stating RT is playing at or heading towards.

    IMO every qb you named besides broadway Joe is average and played on great teams, great teams don't need qbs, good teams need great qbs. Ravens tampa prime examples had great defenses needed a qb who just game managed. besides eli being BB kryptonite when he plays great he is avg to me.

    However Miami has neither they have a good to above good defense with a few changes could be really good. offense is average at best. so therefore need a great qb which rt is not.

    how many of those qbs won super bowls in their first 6 years? just wondering.
     
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  21. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I think over a career it is fair to insert W/L record into the equation. Not so much for a single season however.

    We know how it goes, extremists will claim Ryan led us to the playoffs last year, but somehow didn’t lead us to average to below average in years past.

    The other side will point to his record as an indicator of his performance then leave out his playoff caliber season giving credit elsewhere.

    Kind of how it goes around here. Sad because both sides are very silly.
     
  22. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    put Wilson on the dolphins and watch how easy we make the playoffs that's all im saying. you seem to the think the team isn't good, Miami has most pieces to the puzzle than alot of teams just somehow we can never do anything with it.
     
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  23. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    how many all pros does RT have?
     
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  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    WTF?


    No one has ever said that RT is heading towards Wilson, Marino, Favre, Cunningham, Brady, or any of the others you posted....
     
  25. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All I said was that just going by wins/losses is a bad way to evaluate QBs. On the ones you listed, I would probably take those teams those QBs played on over every team RT has played on, even before I start to look at the QB play
     
  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Put RT in Seattle and the same could be said. Hell, put RT in New England and he probably has a Super Bowl by now.

    It's a team sport.
     
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  27. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    like I said b 4 its hard to say RT led us to the playoffs since we still needed 3 of 4 to make the last playoff spot, did he help yes but you have to give Moore credit as well.
     
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  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    There's a difference between being the single most important part to winning and losing and straight up saying the W/L record is a QB stat.

    Again, look no further than the Jax/Buff playoff game.
     
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  29. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    rt has not played to Wilsons level at any point, and by any means would Pete Carroll ever take RT but in this dream world ill play along, rt would have never lead that team to 2 super bowls. RT is far inferior to Wilson. and BB as well would never take RT, Rt is so far off the qb that he wants its not even imaginable almost lol
     
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  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Dafuq?

    You think 2012-2015 the problem was Thill?

    Let me say this again


    <ahem>



    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
     
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  31. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I never said w/l is a qb stat I said good qb's have good w/l records, I do know there are many variables that go into a team game of winning and losing. but what I am saying is when a team wins the qb get the credit and when they lose its blamed on them the qb position is super important.
     
  32. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Moore deserves credit for sure, and RT was certainly playing well enough vs AZ that I thought we would win. So I’d say Matt needed more like 2-3. But he did get those first 2 to make #3 moot.

    Years past Ryan I think may have not got 2-3 but I think the new found comfort level he found is evidence enough for me to think he gets 2-3 as well.

    I also don’t buy the well he played 2 bad teams (Jets/Bills) because we played a lot of bad teams last season that seems to be forgotten by a lot of fan’s.

    The reason Ryan is still such a polorizing figure both on here and in the sports world?? Is because the jury is STILL out on him.

    So anyone who places him from 10-20 has evidence to do so, issue is the people who have him at 10 are ridiculed by people who have him at 20, and the people who have him at 10 ridicule the ones that have him at 20.

    All this RT **** isn’t hard to figure out.
     
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  33. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    ive seen multiple times people say rt is a top 10 qb isn't Wilson and brady top 10?
     
  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    That’s why sample size over a career or a high number of years is a better way to use that W/L thing.

    It really isn’t valid for a year, good or bad. If Philip Rivers goes 12-4 one season to 4-12 the next, it normally isn’t that Phillip Rivers started sucking.
     
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  35. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    you hit the nail on the head I couldn't said it any better, I have said many times the clock is not out on RT and next yr will definitely be the tale of all the tapes, one side is going to be the winner this time next year and its pretty much in RT hands who wins lol.
     
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  36. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    No you haven't.
     
  37. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    and 2016? 4 games left we were still vying for the last playoff spot, like I said we had not a lead on anyone in the playoff race it was still that a race, we still needed 3 games to get the last spot, if what you say is true we should have had one already only needing 1 of 4 when RT went down. im taking "your' sample size of his good year, I'm not even including his first yrs because the team was at best horrendous.
     
  38. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    ok, ill go get my glasses checked, I wish someone would back me on this because its been said multiple times he was top 10 and there has been debates that have turned into people attacking people so you sir are wrong.
     
  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Unless ofcourse he plays at a 12-14 level, then the circles will keep spinning.
     
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  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    2016 we were on a 8-1 streak when he got hurt. This is stupid.
     
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